Author Topic: Dragon Fruit thread.  (Read 940655 times)

Bush2Beach

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2600 on: May 13, 2018, 11:30:33 AM »
And this is why I wonder why folks sell DF cuttings for $7-$8 apiece to fellow board members? For a plant that propagates a clone of itself easier than any other.
I wonder why Nopales Tuna's are not $8 a fruit or cutting when they can have much tastier fruit than DF.
So weird how Hype works in culture and translates over to a comparatively bland tasting fruit.
I really enjoy Megalanthus fruits, Have yet to try a tasty red or white mesocarp DF.
Ive had flowers but no fruit on Voodoo Child, Halley's Comet and Physical Graffiti and Valdivia Roja.



Most of the ground clutter that I don't end up cleaning up and throwing away will eventually try and root. Even the tiny, underdeveloped tips or shaded branches that fall behind my pots against my house I find trying to put out new shoots. In a hospitable environment these plants are very good at reproducing themselves through discarded branch materials, and I think if the end times ever came, they would take over my neighborhood in little time.

ricshaw

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2601 on: May 13, 2018, 11:51:27 AM »
A few days ago I hand pollinated two flowers of Physical Graffiti with its own pollen. Was done at 11pm. Made sure I put a sufficient amount in the stigma. Flowers dropped. I had no other pollen available. I have heard both, that physical graffiti es self fertile and others say it not. Any one with experience on this ?
Particularly looking with successfull pollination with other cultivars.

It has been my experience that Physical Graffiti is NOT self fertile.

It has also been reported that Physical Graffiti needs pollen from an unrelated Dragon Fruit, not a related Paul Thomson "S" variety (except S-8).

The following information came from Paul’s book Pitahaya – A Promising New Fruit Crop for Southern California, second edition August 2002, pgs. 39 – 41, 45 & 46.

Paul says his first Pitahaya hybrid seeds came from two unknown species he called “Neitzel” and “Rixford”. Neitzel produced white flesh fruit and Rizford produced red flesh fruit. From this cross, Paul says in his book that there were 8 seedlings produced. One seedling died and all of the remaining 7 flowered and produced fruit. Two of the plants had what Paul called outstanding fruit and three had very good fruit. In Paul’s own words; “It was a most fortuitous cross.”
Note: According to Paul, all of the seedlings from his “Netitzel X Rixford” cross must be cross pollinated to set fruit.

Paul also produced two seedlings from a different cross between “Houghton” and Rixford. Both Houghton and Rixford have red flesh fruit and in Paul’s opinion excellent flavor.

The “S” stands for seedling.

1-S – dark pink flesh, flavor very good, renamed “Physical Graffiti” by Florida nursery.

2-S – deep red flesh, flavor very good to excellent renamed “Cosmic Charlie”

3-S – delicate pink flesh, flavor superb, named “Delight” by Paul.

4-S – pale pink flesh, flavor very good.

5-S – dark red or magenta flesh, flavor good – very good, renamed “Purple Haze”

6-S – Paul removed after freeze damage

7-S – Paul removed after freeze damage

8-S – deep, almost fluorescent magenta flesh, flavor excellent, named “Sugar Dragon” by grower Linda.

9-S – red flesh, flavor a close second to 3-S, renamed “Dark Star” by Florida nursery.

Note: 7-S and 8-S are from the Houghton X Rixford cross.
S1, S2, S3, S8, etc. are the same, just different naming for 1-S, 2-S, 3-S, 8-S, etc.
It has been reported that some of the above were renamed by Pine Island Nursery.



ricshaw

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2602 on: May 13, 2018, 12:34:27 PM »
I understand Carlos’ and others frustration and disappointment.

My first introduction and taste of Dragon Fruit was at a Farmer’s Market while on vacation with family on the island of Hawaii. At that moment I decided I wanted to try and grow Dragon Fruit at home in Southern California.

I acquired my first named Dragon Fruit cuttings at the UC Pitahaya Festival in Irvine, CA.
At the festival I got to taste many different varieties.
On that day, my favorites were Delight and Halley’s Comet.
Unlike most people who collect several varieties, I decided I was only going to grow the two varieties I like best.
When it came time to selecting the 5 free cuttings, unlike most people who selected 5 different cuttings, I chose to get only 5 Halley’s Comet.
The next year I went back and got 5 Delight cuttings.

Over the next few years I suffered frustration and disappointment from flower drop and no fruit. I also got a better understanding of “self fertile”, self-pollinating, hand pollinating, etc. I learned that growers who had several unrelated varieties producing flowers at or near the same time were not experiencing the frustration and disappointment I was having.

Once I got to the point of having enough unrelated flowering varieties, my luck on harvesting Dragon Fruit changed.

CTMIAMI

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2603 on: May 13, 2018, 02:20:27 PM »
Ricsha geat information. Thanks
Now I did hand pollinate two PG flowers with S-8 Sugar dragon pollen two nights ago. I stored the Sugar DRagon pollen two nights in the refrigerator. Let's see how that goes.

From your information I have to assume that Delight, American Beauty and Natural Mystic are not related to Physical Graffiti and may pollinate it.  I only have one Sugar Dragon of Flowering age, so I need to get a good system to store and preserve  pollen.  I did have pollen from the Amarican Beauty that I mixed with the Sugar dragon and pollinated two physical Grafiiti flowers and a Purple Haze flower.

Now so far my best flowering DF is the Physical Graffiti 10-15 flowers on 18 month old plants I need to learn what can be used to pollinate it.
Has anyone had experiencewith the above 3 underlined cultivar used to pollenize Physical Graffiti?

I also have a DF that flowers a lot: Pepino Dulce has not set one single fruit, not much is  available but If I can find out what pollen to use can be a good source of fruit.



Carlos
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ricshaw

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2604 on: May 13, 2018, 02:57:12 PM »
From your information I have to assume that Delight, American Beauty and Natural Mystic are not related to Physical Graffiti and may pollinate it.  I only have one Sugar Dragon of Flowering age, so I need to get a good system to store and preserve  pollen.  I did have pollen from the Amarican Beauty that I mixed with the Sugar dragon and pollinated two physical Grafiiti flowers and a Purple Haze flower.

snip

I also have a DF that flowers a lot: Pepino Dulce has not set one single fruit, not much is  available but If I can find out what pollen to use can be a good source of fruit.

Delight and Physical Graffiti are seedlings that came from the same piece of fruit! Closely related.

Pepino Dulce and Physical Graffiti should be a good match for cross pollination.

FamilyJ

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2605 on: May 13, 2018, 07:21:54 PM »
From your information I have to assume that Delight, American Beauty and Natural Mystic are not related to Physical Graffiti and may pollinate it.  I only have one Sugar Dragon of Flowering age, so I need to get a good system to store and preserve  pollen.  I did have pollen from the Amarican Beauty that I mixed with the Sugar dragon and pollinated two physical Grafiiti flowers and a Purple Haze flower.

snip

I also have a DF that flowers a lot: Pepino Dulce has not set one single fruit, not much is  available but If I can find out what pollen to use can be a good source of fruit.

Delight and Physical Graffiti are seedlings that came from the same piece of fruit! Closely related.

Pepino Dulce and Physical Graffiti should be a good match for cross pollination.
Dang, Got that knowledge is king. How long you grown dragonfruit Ricshaw? thanks

spaugh

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2606 on: May 13, 2018, 07:55:38 PM »
I understand Carlos’ and others frustration and disappointment.

My first introduction and taste of Dragon Fruit was at a Farmer’s Market while on vacation with family on the island of Hawaii. At that moment I decided I wanted to try and grow Dragon Fruit at home in Southern California.

I acquired my first named Dragon Fruit cuttings at the UC Pitahaya Festival in Irvine, CA.
At the festival I got to taste many different varieties.
On that day, my favorites were Delight and Halley’s Comet.
Unlike most people who collect several varieties, I decided I was only going to grow the two varieties I like best.
When it came time to selecting the 5 free cuttings, unlike most people who selected 5 different cuttings, I chose to get only 5 Halley’s Comet.
The next year I went back and got 5 Delight cuttings.

Over the next few years I suffered frustration and disappointment from flower drop and no fruit. I also got a better understanding of “self fertile”, self-pollinating, hand pollinating, etc. I learned that growers who had several unrelated varieties producing flowers at or near the same time were not experiencing the frustration and disappointment I was having.

Once I got to the point of having enough unrelated flowering varieties, my luck on harvesting Dragon Fruit changed.

Do you still need to do hand pollination or have you found ones, or combos, that are able to fruit without your help?
Brad Spaugh

ricshaw

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2607 on: May 13, 2018, 09:59:29 PM »
Do you still need to do hand pollination or have you found ones, or combos, that are able to fruit without your help?

Somebody has to pollinate the flowers.
In my experience, since the flowers open at night, I have much better success (more fruit and larger fruit) hand pollinating. 
Local Dragon Fruit Farms rely mostly on bees to do the work.

RobPatterson

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2608 on: May 23, 2018, 10:38:48 AM »
Hand pollination will increase your chances of success in getting fruit. Cross pollinating, even self fertile varieties, seems to increase the yields and quality of fruit. Doing to pollinating when the flower is completely open is the easiest, but sometimes you cant drag yourself out of bed at 2am to fiddle with flowers, so any time you still have access to the flower's stamen (its lady parts), you can still apply the pollen. Even the next morning, if the flower is somewhat wilted and you need to peel petals back to get inside the flower, as long as you don't do damage, successful pollinating is totally doable. I recommend that you collect pollen each time you're out doing your pollinating, that way its easier to apply pollen to plants, rather than trying to get it out of each flower as you go. Plus, it allows you keep some extra for the next day, so you can get right to work. At room temperature, not in direct sunlight, pollen will keep 24-48 hours just left on a plate or other surface. Don't place in a sealed container or cover, as trapped humidity and forced extraction of moisture can both be bad for the sensitive pollen. Properly prepared and frozen pollen will keep for weeks or months, but that's for more experienced users and generally requires some extra apparatus.
When I go out pollinating my specific collection of plants, what I do is (normally) collect pollen in 2 separate sets: S-8 (Sugar Dragon) and EE (Everything Else). The S-8 is such a good pollinator, and produces such large quantities of pollen, that I use it to pollinate all my other plants. Then I go back, collect whatever pollen is available from the rest of the mixed varieties, and pollinate my S-8's with that pollen cocktail. I don't do crossbreeding anymore so the particular species that ends up being the successful genetic donor doesn't matter to me, as long as I get a good fruit set. 

spaugh

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2609 on: May 23, 2018, 10:50:10 AM »
Had my first flower of the season pop a few days ago.  Looks like a few others are starting to bud.  I did pollinate it but it was also covered in ants so so maybe they will take care of that here.  Unfortunately they are nasty fire ants that actually eat the new growth on the vines.  Really hard to get rid of these ants.


Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2610 on: May 24, 2018, 07:38:08 AM »
Had my first flower of the season pop a few days ago.  Looks like a few others are starting to bud.  I did pollinate it but it was also covered in ants so so maybe they will take care of that here.  Unfortunately they are nasty fire ants that actually eat the new growth on the vines.  Really hard to get rid of these ants.



I have 20 acres of the bastards off and on.  Best bait is Extinguish Plus, then Amdro.  Bifenthrin drenches work well.  If using baits do not follow the label and broadcast.  A much more effective way to control them is to kick the mound to stir them up then sprinkle.   Really big mounds usually take about level 1 TB. They immediately get pissed and carry the bait into the ground.  Most if not all of that bait should be gone within 24 hrs.  Bingo!   ;)

CTMIAMI

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2611 on: May 26, 2018, 08:39:04 AM »
Yes Mark we are on the same page. Now that I have DF in the grove I use Extinguish and when I apply herbicide I add some Bifenthrin and the combination works great I Do it a couple of feet aeay from the roots and does the job well. Helps keep DF clean.
Carlos
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zone 10a Miami-Dade County

Mark in Texas

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2612 on: May 26, 2018, 10:20:46 AM »
Yes Mark we are on the same page. Now that I have DF in the grove I use Extinguish and when I apply herbicide I add some Bifenthrin and the combination works great I Do it a couple of feet aeay from the roots and does the job well. Helps keep DF clean.

It's all in the technique.

Been thinking about you.  Still doing avocados?  I know first hand how mother nature can take the "wind out of you".  (No pun intended).  We had a nasty storm with a tornado just north of us.  Died out before reaching us.  Fireworks were wild!

spaugh

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2613 on: May 26, 2018, 01:03:00 PM »
Does that stuff only work on particular type of ants?  I have at least 2 differwnt types of ants here.  The red/brown ones bite and sting real bad and chew up DF vines.  The black ones seem fairly harmless but they still farm aphids and piss me off bad.  I really just want to eradicate them in my greenhouse and around outdoor DF plants. 
Brad Spaugh

CTMIAMI

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2614 on: May 26, 2018, 03:14:05 PM »
Does that stuff only work on particular type of ants?  I have at least 2 differwnt types of ants here.  The red/brown ones bite and sting real bad and chew up DF vines.  The black ones seem fairly harmless but they still farm aphids and piss me off bad.  I really just want to eradicate them in my greenhouse and around outdoor DF plants.
I have 2-3 types and the combo Extinguish with Bifenthrin works for all the ones I have
Carlos
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spaugh

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2615 on: May 26, 2018, 04:10:40 PM »
Thanks
Brad Spaugh

CTMIAMI

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2616 on: May 27, 2018, 09:18:39 AM »
Can any one confirm that Vietnamese Jaina will pollinate Paul Thompson's crosses like Physical Graffiti?
Carlos
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SandyL

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2617 on: May 28, 2018, 09:19:39 PM »



Noticed this bright red nub on a Houghton cutting I acquired end of last year from a nice member on their forum. I've heard that new growth on the red dragon fruit usually is red. Is this the same with Houghton or could this be a flower bud?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 09:21:15 PM by SandyL »

Brandon909

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2618 on: May 28, 2018, 10:35:35 PM »
It could be either one I've had some new growth convert in to flower buds. I have some Sugar Dragon cuttings that are flowering got them 5 months ago




SandyL

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2619 on: May 29, 2018, 01:01:24 AM »
It could be either one I've had some new growth convert in to flower buds. I have some Sugar Dragon cuttings that are flowering got them 5 months ago






Wow! Nice!!... Those must've been really mature cuttings!
Do you happen to know if the Houghton needs cross pollination?

RobPatterson

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2620 on: May 29, 2018, 01:51:32 AM »
Its a flower bud. Its very young so it might not STAY a flower bud, especially if its your first one. You can tell if you look at it closely as the new growth looks like overlapping scales. A new branch will typically be a bit more triangular, and less rounded as what you're seeing. Again, it might revert back to stem growth, but if it hangs on for the first 2 weeks or so, it should remain a flower.

Here's what you'll see if you lose the flower due to not enough flowering hormones.



And here's what that will become if it's allowed to mature. Basically the flowers seem to be 6-sided stems, rather than 3, and if they revert back, they keep that hexagonal structure until either they decide its enough or the fruiting hormone bottoms out. I dont know if anyone has done any direct recearch on this phenomenon, but its pretty cool, and btw, harmless for the plant, if you decide to allow the six sided branch to continue.

SandyL

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2621 on: May 29, 2018, 02:36:41 AM »
Its a flower bud. Its very young so it might not STAY a flower bud, especially if its your first one. You can tell if you look at it closely as the new growth looks like overlapping scales. A new branch will typically be a bit more triangular, and less rounded as what you're seeing. Again, it might revert back to stem growth, but if it hangs on for the first 2 weeks or so, it should remain a flower.

Here's what you'll see if you lose the flower due to not enough flowering hormones.



And here's what that will become if it's allowed to mature. Basically the flowers seem to be 6-sided stems, rather than 3, and if they revert back, they keep that hexagonal structure until either they decide its enough or the fruiting hormone bottoms out. I dont know if anyone has done any direct recearch on this phenomenon, but its pretty cool, and btw, harmless for the plant, if you decide to allow the six sided branch to continue.


Ah... Thank you!

I've actually had 2 buda revert back to a stem and it turned into those 6 sided ones from a NOID white variety. I removed it though.

But this is the first bud for me for this year and it's from a cutting I received last October I believe. It's about 16 inches tall and I just placed it in it's permanent spot beginning of this month. So I was kinda surprised since I'm still kinda new to growing DF, that it's possible it could be a bud. But the cutting did look like a really mature cutting though. I guess that might be the reason.
Hopes it stays a bud and blooms and maybe it'll be able to try a fruit from the Houghton variety. Hopefully I have pollen to cross pollinate if need be.

RobPatterson

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2622 on: May 29, 2018, 07:38:19 PM »
I don't know much about the Haughton variety, other than I think its one of the 2 parent varieties of the S-8 plant, but I do know that the S-8 Sugar Dragon variety, which your plant looks quite similar to, is self fertile, and a very good pollinator for all other varieties Ive heard of. Does this plant have a single thorn in most points, thick and woody, like a rose's thorn, not spiny like a traditional cactus? Darker green skin, but leaning a bit more towards a greyer green as opposed to more of a leafy, emerald green? Its kinda hard to get a scope of the overall plant from the closeup.

SandyL

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2623 on: May 30, 2018, 08:56:11 PM »
I don't know much about the Haughton variety, other than I think its one of the 2 parent varieties of the S-8 plant, but I do know that the S-8 Sugar Dragon variety, which your plant looks quite similar to, is self fertile, and a very good pollinator for all other varieties Ive heard of. Does this plant have a single thorn in most points, thick and woody, like a rose's thorn, not spiny like a traditional cactus? Darker green skin, but leaning a bit more towards a greyer green as opposed to more of a leafy, emerald green? Its kinda hard to get a scope of the overall plant from the closeup.


That's what I heard too!
I'm not sure about the thorn. I tried looking for the thorns but there's none left. But the plant itself is like what you described, green but leans toward the grey side.






marklee

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Re: Dragon Fruit thread.
« Reply #2624 on: May 31, 2018, 12:09:51 AM »
I don't know much about the Haughton variety, other than I think its one of the 2 parent varieties of the S-8 plant, but I do know that the S-8 Sugar Dragon variety, which your plant looks quite similar to, is self fertile, and a very good pollinator for all other varieties Ive heard of. Does this plant have a single thorn in most points, thick and woody, like a rose's thorn, not spiny like a traditional cactus? Darker green skin, but leaning a bit more towards a greyer green as opposed to more of a leafy, emerald green? Its kinda hard to get a scope of the overall plant from the closeup.


That's what I heard too!
I'm not sure about the thorn. I tried looking for the thorns but there's none left. But the plant itself is like what you described, green but leans toward the grey side.



I've got about 75% self pollination and self fertilization on my Houghton this year. If you pollinate with it's own pollen you will get nearly 100%. Good luck. You can save the pollen for a while in the fridge also.