Author Topic: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial  (Read 60594 times)

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #350 on: June 03, 2021, 05:20:48 PM »
Here's a photo of a few Bishop citrandarin seedlings. Although one report indicated that the seedlings were nucellar, I see enough variation to indicate some zygotic seedlings.
Bishop citrandarin is a double flowered seedling of US 852. I found the fruit to be edible, or more accurately drinkable when diluted. The flavor is acid, yet sweet, rather intense with just a fleeting hint of Poncirus, the opposite of an aftertaste. The flavor is reminiscent of kumquat/mandarin and this is the lingering flavor, rather than Poncirus. The tree is reported to be hardy to 6 degrees F.


mikkel

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #351 on: June 03, 2021, 05:36:44 PM »
@kumin What is Bishop Citrandarin? is it from Alan Bishop?

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #352 on: June 03, 2021, 05:50:41 PM »
Indeed, I believe eyeckr did the honors of naming the selection. The past Saturday I grafted 25 scions onto Poncirus rootstock, hopefully a number of them will succeed. As I wait for my trees to mature I'm selecting a group of potential pollen/seed partners.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCyvolXNHCs
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 06:02:52 PM by kumin »

mikkel

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #353 on: June 03, 2021, 06:45:14 PM »
Thanks for the link!
Nice to see that his research has fruited.
I did a bypass graft with 5Star on a Poncirus rootstock this spring the first flush is already as twice as strong as in the last years I will try that on other plants it might give immature plants also a push.

hardyvermont

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #354 on: June 04, 2021, 11:36:25 AM »
Mikkel, this plant is a happy accident and is not a result of a breeding program.  Bishop Citrandarin was bought as US852.  However because it took years to fruit it is obviously a seedling.  When a small rooted cutting of US852 that I just got bears fruit it should be clearly evident if it is a zygotic plant or not by making a comparison.  Many flowers are double, which is probably not typical of US852.
Relatives enjoy the fruit, which led me to send it to eyeckr and kumin for evaluation.   

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #355 on: July 31, 2021, 07:46:03 PM »
96 newly planted F2 citranges on Poncirus rootstock. Only the hardiest selections were included in this planting, as this is the lowest and coldest part of the property. I'm hoping for one more mild Winter until the trees get established.





« Last Edit: July 31, 2021, 07:55:20 PM by kumin »

Till

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #356 on: August 23, 2021, 04:07:12 PM »
Cool. You are very hard-working. Nice that you have the space.
I have the space too but my climate is at the border of what Poncirus can tolerate. Summer are too cool and weather in spring unpredictable. I also like to see that people use their resources to improve hardy citrus. Very good.

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #357 on: August 24, 2021, 12:51:27 PM »
Till, I suspect the low temperatures in my area to be a bit colder than your area. In January, 1994 the lowest local temperatures were -31C for two consecutive mornings. These temperatures were lethal to any young Poncirus branches above the snow. More recently, a low of -25 C did moderate damage to late season Poncirus growth.

Our summers are hot and humid, but not on par with the Southeastern US, as our's are of shorter duration.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2021, 03:37:41 AM by kumin »

mikkel

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #358 on: August 24, 2021, 03:25:45 PM »
the main problem here in Germany is the summers. in my area, a little further north than Till, it's even worse. Poncirus just doesn't like our summers and there is only moderate growth every year. The main sprouting is in July/August, but these branches often don't survive the winter.

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #359 on: August 27, 2021, 07:38:52 PM »
Following several suggestions that segentrange Conestoga # 011 may be tetraploid, a sample has been submitted to a laboratory for ploidy testing. The results should be available in 10 days. Since this tree is the hardiest of the trial survivors, it may prove to be of use in producing seedless triploids when crossed to diploids.


Millet

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #360 on: August 27, 2021, 10:33:03 PM »
Kumin, the leaves on your tree certainly have higher ploidy features.  I'll be watching this post to read what the testing shows.

mikkel

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #361 on: September 01, 2021, 09:56:10 AM »
how can you recognise polyploidy? In Passiflora 4n varieties often have serrated leaf margins, like these poncirus leaves here.

Millet

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #362 on: September 01, 2021, 10:00:11 AM »
From instances such as the over thickness of the leaves

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #363 on: September 02, 2021, 08:49:26 AM »
The lab results are back and confirm that Conestoga #011 is indeed a tetraploid. I'll need to take this into consideration going forward.



















« Last Edit: September 02, 2021, 02:30:25 PM by kumin »

Jibro

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #364 on: September 02, 2021, 12:02:11 PM »
Congrats, it's good to have confirmation that these different leaves are indeed a sign of tetraploidy.

Walt

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #365 on: September 02, 2021, 02:10:52 PM »
This changes your options.

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #366 on: September 27, 2021, 07:36:16 PM »
Tetraploidy as well as triploidy may enhance stress tolerance, including cold tolerance in Citrus. This may partially explain the hardiness of both Conestoga # 010 and Conestoga # 011. At this point I suspect that both are tetraploids.

An additional observation has been the twin thorns frequently present on # 011. I'm curious if tetraploidy causes, or contributes to that phenomenon?

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpls.2020.00330/full
« Last Edit: September 28, 2021, 09:52:27 PM by kumin »

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #367 on: October 25, 2021, 01:41:46 PM »
A group of surviving outdoor F2 Citranges. These have been exposed to 2 Winters with lows of +10F degrees. I really won't know their hardiness until we get a colder Winter. These aren't the very hardiest trees. These trees have not been uprooted since the original planting.
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Outdoor planting of F2 Citranges, all grafted on Poncirus. Hoping for a mild Winter!
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Original Citrange trees surviving the past 2 Winters without any protection. There's a planting of American persimmons in the background. The persimmons were grown from seed and have been bearing fruit several years.
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Trunk diameter approaches 1" (2.5 cm) at ground level on this Citrange.
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Three F2 Citranges growing beside each other. The center tree favors Poncirus rather strongly. Each tree has different leaves.
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« Last Edit: October 25, 2021, 01:43:53 PM by kumin »

mikkel

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #368 on: October 26, 2021, 09:22:27 AM »
This is really good work! Thank you for sharing your experience with us!
 Are the plants in the first picture the ones that froze to the ground in the 1st winter and then sprouted again?
If those are already hardy to 10F, they are probably already hardy enough for many parts of Europe. The -11F survivors probably can't be topped for citrus hybrids at the moment. That's a big step forward!

Ilya11

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #369 on: October 26, 2021, 09:30:40 AM »
Nice plants with very strong growth over summer. 
A striking demonstration how different are the climates for same zone at East Coast and in the Western Europe.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #370 on: October 26, 2021, 09:58:51 AM »
Ilya, by observing the latitude of Europe, it's obvious that the Gulf Stream strongly moderates Western Europe's temperatures, but Western Europe lacks some of solar energy available to the Eastern US. Unfortunately for us, being on the eastern edge of the North American continent means we get cold Winters as well as fairly hot Summers. Areas south of my location aren't necessarily much hotter in Summer than my area, but the heat is of considerable longer duration. Our area can grow tobacco, melons, aubergines, sweet potatoes, and other heat loving crops. Marginal crops are okra, peanuts (groundnuts).  Cotton is impractical to grow in this area, but is found about 250 miles (400 kilometers) to our south.

I'm somewhat optimistic that some of my selections and additional items I've collected will survive and perhaps thrive in my area. The 5* citrumelo struggles a bit getting through Winter, but recovers strongly. Ichangequats have done poorly during Winter. TaiTri is quite similar to 5* in hardiness to this point. I'm not yet certain that Poncirus+ is equally hardy to regular Poncirus, as the last 2 winters have been mild.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2021, 10:16:47 AM by kumin »

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #371 on: October 26, 2021, 10:14:27 AM »
This is really good work! Thank you for sharing your experience with us!
 Are the plants in the first picture the ones that froze to the ground in the 1st winter and then sprouted again?
If those are already hardy to 10F, they are probably already hardy enough for many parts of Europe. The -11F survivors probably can't be topped for citrus hybrids at the moment. That's a big step forward!

Mikkel, all photos except the second are of survivors that sprouted at ground level during the Spring following the severe Winter test. As these seedlings were only 9 months of age when subjected to the cold test, they may possibly be hardier by now. However, the selections that were transplanted out of the test rows are the hardiest, with the possible exception of the 2 that are monofoliate/bifoliate.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2021, 01:17:26 PM by kumin »

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #372 on: October 27, 2021, 06:35:51 PM »
Pentafoliate leaf found on Conestoga # 001 Segentrange. This is the first seen to this point, perhaps there are additional ones. It's not hard to visualize ancestral Citrus having additional leaflets.
There appears to be a twin thorn at this node.



Appears to have been seen previously on Poncirus hybrids. https://citrusvariety.ucr.edu/citrus/citrumelo_3821.html
« Last Edit: October 27, 2021, 06:48:00 PM by kumin »

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #373 on: November 05, 2021, 07:11:54 PM »
Conestoga # 067 showing a bit of leaf color change, as well as minor deciduousness.

Conestoga # 058 also going through a leaf color change, including a branch color breaking to red leaves. No idea if the Ruby Blood Orange ancestry plays a role in this particular coloration. This clone has the thinnest, longest spines of all my trees.


Segentrange # 014 has rather citrandarin-like foliage. I haven't focused equally on all selections, as I've tended to focus mostly on a few of the more distinctive plants.



 Segentrange # 002 has few thorns and those tend to be small. Pleasant to work with, in "sharp" contrast to the majority of the selections. Grafts of this clone haven't had as good "takes" as the other selections.

« Last Edit: November 07, 2021, 03:33:03 PM by kumin »

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #374 on: November 08, 2021, 02:49:26 PM »
I got a bit of shock today as I was watering my seedlings in the cold frame. I happened to look up at the roof plastic film and did a double take. One of the  31 month old 5* citrumelo seedlings has 4 fruit in the upper branches. I consider this to be quite precocious. The tree is a bit over 9' (3m) tall. The tree likely flowered a bit late as the fruit aren't ripe at this time. So I suppose it's a precocious citrumelo! This tree was germinated from seed in April 2019

Thanks Ilya, this tree originated from seed you provided.


« Last Edit: November 10, 2021, 04:40:07 AM by kumin »

 

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