Author Topic: Pruning consistent tipping vs Au naturale  (Read 1425 times)

bovine421

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Pruning consistent tipping vs Au naturale
« on: August 12, 2020, 08:35:22 PM »
Consistent tipping also does not necessarily cause stronger branches but it can actually cause thinner/weaker branches with too much branching on each branch which will weaken the branch and make it more difficult to support the weight of the fruit. I think i am starting to see the wisdom in this statement. It seem like pruning below a growth ring causes vertical branching. Where as pruning above would facilitate more horizontal spread. Please add your to cents am here to learn from other :)



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Viraldonutz

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Re: Pruning consistent tipping vs Au naturale
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2020, 01:37:24 PM »
I'm interested in this as well. I've tried tipping frequently with two of my trees with limited success.

On my Mallika tree, growth has been consistently upright no matter where I tip it (I've never paid much attention to tipping locations, though).  It stands upright pretty well.  The tipping, though, doesn't always work... lots of times the tips will just stay tipped and brown up.  Maybe it's somehow better at only growing when it has enough energy to do so "safely"?

Compare my Zebda tree, it nearly always responds to tipping, but produces very weak, sprawling branches more than half the time.  Again, I've never noticed tipping location to make a difference.

My much younger Keitt tree was very sprawling, horizontal growing its first two years in the ground, but now that I've installed automatic irrigation, all of its new growth has been entirely vertical -- it's twice as tall as it was 6 months ago!  I'll have to wait and see it the new growth hardens up strong.  I haven't really tipped this tree at all, more than maybe once or twice.
--Jake

bsbullie

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Re: Pruning consistent tipping vs Au naturale
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2020, 02:54:40 PM »
Those in California should not follow the same practices as those in Florida.
- Rob

Viraldonutz

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Re: Pruning consistent tipping vs Au naturale
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2020, 03:35:56 PM »
Yep, that's what I figured out eventually. Haven't tipped anything in the last two years.

Any suggestions on anything I can do to encourage branching growth?
--Jake

bovine421

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Re: Pruning consistent tipping vs Au naturale
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2020, 04:42:37 PM »
I spoke with someone who manages many trees and ask him about multiple branching on growth rings. He said he is not the least concerned about that he only prunes to manage size and may take out a couple vertical branches. I'm assuming he does that to keep it in a vegetative state instead of a growth state. That pretty much confirmed for me the wisdom of the beginning statement in my initial post. The statement originated from one of the forum Hero members. The photo in my original post of tip pruning is of a Malika tree LOL



With a growth ring i think there would be more separation of branchs





Here is a DOT that was pruned below growth ring. Far enough down that leaves were well staggered.Does not look any stronger then if it had originated from a growth ring.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2020, 05:22:30 PM by bovine421 »
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spaugh

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Re: Pruning consistent tipping vs Au naturale
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2020, 05:06:56 PM »
Yep, that's what I figured out eventually. Haven't tipped anything in the last two years.

Any suggestions on anything I can do to encourage branching growth?

Pruning long branches will make nice bushy plants.  I tip mine back to ~18" length and make the cut down to where nodes are more spaced out so you dont get new branches all coming from the same node.  They will be weak points and split if the new branches aren't staggered.  Then thin down the new branches and only keep 3 well staggered  branches. 

You need to have good timing on this or you will waste energy of the tree.  The tippi g needs to be done right after the flush hardens off and before new buds swell.  That way you make the cuts to remove the tip (usually few inches) of tightly spaced nodes.  Then the new buds swell up below the cut on staggered nodes. 

I'm not at all an expert at mangos but this is how I do mine and it works well.  Timing is very important here and good vigor of your tree. 

Brad Spaugh

bovine421

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Re: Pruning consistent tipping vs Au naturale
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2020, 05:36:29 PM »
 Youtube is not the best way to learn how to prune or cut hair LOL
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Guanabanus

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Re: Pruning consistent tipping vs Au naturale
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2020, 10:41:25 AM »
Think ahead:  will there be room for three new branches?  Will all the leaves get sunlight?

Branches that go vertical can be maually bent while still tender.
Har

bovine421

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Re: Pruning consistent tipping vs Au naturale
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2020, 12:19:19 PM »
Think ahead:  will there be room for three new branches?  Will all the leaves get sunlight?

Branches that go vertical can be maually bent while still tender.
I value your input. Would you say there's different pruning strategies for different stages of a tree's development. Juvenile adolescent tip pruning pruning below the second growth ring between 12 and 18 i is useful. Then at a certain point you shift to another strategy? If so would you judge the transition from one stage to another by treesize or other factors? As a backyard grower with a dozen trees I plan on keeping 3 side branches on growth rings as you have suggested earlier. Please excuse any typos I'm on break at work :)
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bovine421

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Re: Pruning consistent tipping vs Au naturale
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2020, 12:31:25 PM »


 I find that red stem training is easier on my sweet tart and Pickering.  Malika and Dot The leaves are not conducive to that easy fix



That's going to be a lot of training :)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 01:17:30 PM by bovine421 »
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simon_grow

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Re: Pruning consistent tipping vs Au naturale
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2020, 02:41:10 PM »
It depends where you are at and what your specific goal is. You even need to factor in which variety you are talking about after you consider location. For those that are new first read this article.

https://www.growables.org/information/documents/MangoPruningStrategies.pdf

In SoCal and other marginal climates, you want vertical growth as vertical growth will generally produce less florigenic hormones. In SoCal, we don’t want early flowering in our mango trees. Our goal is to grow the tree vegetatively until it reaches your ideal size, which may be different for everyone.

If you just want one or two mangos, sure, let it fruit early but you also risk stunting your tree. In general, I would recommend people in SoCal to grow their tree to 4-5 feet tall and wide before allowing it to hold fruit if you just want a few fruit a year or let it get to about 6 feet tall and wide if you want more fruit every year. The problem for us is that once the tree starts blooming and setting fruit, it will try to bloom every year and you won’t get much growth.

By having your tree reach these sizes I recommended above, it has reached a critical mass of leaves and wood that will allow it to hold some fruit without losing your tree, diseases aside.

So now back to the subject of pruning, in SoCal, I would recommend getting your tree as vertical as you can get it with minimal scaffold branching.

If you cut above an intercalation, there will be too many growths and the weight of all this branches will cause the branch to droop. By cutting below an intercalation, you get fewer branches that are spaced further apart. You may still need to thin the branches forming at the leaf petiole scars, probably 3 is good but it depends on your final goal.

In Florida where mango growth is vigorous, you may want to allow the branches to become more horizontal to stimulate blooms. Because you get good growth in your warmer climate, it may be wise to create lower scaffold branches as fruiting wood moves up as the tree grows.

The tree should be structured so that you can mow, weed and fertilizer under without much trouble. Those members that are elderly but insist working on their own yard and harvesting their own fruit should consider lower bushy trees for easier harvesting and maintenance but this has issues of its own.

If a tree is kept extremely low and bushy, there is less air movement and you may have more disease issues.

You also have to consider the variety you want to prune/shape. Some varieties like PPK grows extremely dense clusters of branches. Lemon Zest, Sweet Tart, VP and other vigorous varieties may want to grow like crazy depending on your growing environment and establishing lower scaffold branches may make it easier to trim, spray and harvest in the future.

Simon

bovine421

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Re: Pruning consistent tipping vs Au naturale
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2020, 04:41:01 PM »
Thank you Simon after I take a nap and a BC powder I'm going to read that article. In the meantime i was looking for a quick fix on the training of the red stems. I was outside it's hotter than blue-blazes trying to braid the leaves then I got to thinking what would happen if I stapled them. No they probably tear in the wind or maybe paper clips. Then I remembered the California cool kids talking about clothespins on their avocado grafts. Well it's too hot to do anything right now. I do have all weekend to Cipher on it so go ahead and make fun of me at least I didn't try to glue them together LOL
There was one thing that I did learn from YouTube about pruning do not stand on a fence rail use a ladder ;)











« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 07:25:58 PM by bovine421 »
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Guanabanus

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Re: Pruning consistent tipping vs Au naturale
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2020, 08:50:04 PM »
Bovine,

When a tree gets to be the size of your Mallika, I don't usually bother to train anything.  I occasionally reach well into the canopy and take out a whole branch.
Har

bovine421

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Re: Pruning consistent tipping vs Au naturale
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2020, 09:17:04 PM »
I think you right i have one branch in mind that needs to go
We just had a bad storm that was stationary over us with a lot of rain and gust of wind up to 40 mph. I checked and my staple held tight and also all my paper clips are still in place. That what i call good training





The beauty of this forum is that there can be artist differences of opinion, and for the most part civil debate. Some times. LOL
« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 09:45:36 PM by bovine421 »
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bovine421

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Re: Pruning consistent tipping vs Au naturale
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2020, 11:18:37 AM »
Thanks Simon! :) :) :) This is helping me immensely!

https://www.growables.org/information/documents/MangoPruningStrategies.pdf



I did some training this morning and have showered up and i am making a pot of coffee. This document is real good i am going pour over it 
« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 11:24:59 AM by bovine421 »
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bovine421

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Re: Pruning consistent tipping vs Au naturale
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2020, 07:46:03 PM »
Have two tree's in a section of yard that i mow with a zero turn radius mower.The other are where i use push mower so i do not mind low branching. After reading Simon's article that he sent me i am going to let my m-4 grow without pruning intercalation until it reach's the height that i want. At that time is when i will prune intercalation or growth ring to start scaffolding branching so i can mow with out knocking my hat off. 

M-4 I was leaving the to side branch's for grafting but my remove. I did have concern about alternate bearing but with recent discussions on this forum I am not


I was training side branch's because of concern of having v crotch but may remove.


« Last Edit: August 15, 2020, 08:05:55 PM by bovine421 »
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