Author Topic: Seedling Mango tree thread  (Read 13785 times)

simon_grow

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #175 on: September 12, 2022, 12:54:41 AM »
SHV, great reports on your Cambodiana and Carrie Seedlings! They both sound great, especially the Carrie seedling. I hope your mango orchard establishes quickly so you can grow your keeper list of seedlings. I suspect that mangos that have gone through more iterations of selective breeding will likely give offspring with favorable taste profiles.

It would also be very interesting to grow out a bunch of Polyembryonic mangos in the hopes that you get a favorable off type seedling.

I should have some Pina Colada seedling and E4 seedling fruit ripening up soon.

Simon

mangoba

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #176 on: September 12, 2022, 07:26:49 AM »
SHV, do you detect any Indian type spiciness? It sounds to me like you're not tasting any.

SHV

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #177 on: September 12, 2022, 12:36:36 PM »
Yes, definitely an Indian type spice to the Carrie seedling.  I mentioned itís similarity to Dwarf Hawaiian which falls under the Indian spice category.  Itís almost like an Alphonso, but that mango is unique on its own.  The Carrie seedling has a very balanced spice flavor profile. Not like the Paheri seedling I described in this thread last year.  That mango is pure pine resin, super Indian spice. You can taste it on your breath 2 hours after eating it.

Jagmanjoe

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #178 on: September 12, 2022, 05:33:49 PM »
To me, this is such a refreshing thread.  So many out there discourage growing Mango trees from seed claiming it will take an inordinate amount of years to produce fruit and the fruit will most likely not be very good.  They continue on with claims that the only way to get a good mango is to buy a grafted tree or graft one.

More and more I am hearing stories of trees from seed producing at times in as little as 3 or 4 years with fruit that has great flavor.  I have about a dozen from seeds of good varieties that are about a year old and 3 to 5 feet tall after giving away about an additional half dozen to individuals I hope will get to try, enjoy and appreciate potentially different varieties.  It is so personally rewarding to see the trees growing from seed and have the potential to be tasting great mangoes within a few years.  I do have 15 grafted varieties also in the ground which should produce soon.

A month ago, my wife and I were privileged to be able to taste a variety that had a flavor similar to that of a Carrie that had amazing, sweet flavor and is proving to be more disease resistant while also being a late season variety.  The grower of that new variety is a little south of Sarasota, FL.  Hopefully one day I will be lucky enough to be an owner of one of this new variety.

Kudos to those of you pursuing and sharing information about Mango trees grown from seed.  Keep proving that it isn't always necessary to buy a Zill grafted variety to get a great tasting mango.

SHV

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #179 on: September 14, 2022, 11:06:41 PM »
ďRedĒ Saigon

Iíve enjoyed growing popular variety mangos seedlings.  For the most part, they have been excellent fruit retaining the best characteristics of the maternal parent.  This is not one of them. I picked up a one year old seedling from Exotica about 6 years ago labeled as Red Saigon.  It has grown tall and disease free over this time while producing its first fruit 3 years ago.  The fruit were small sized and underwhelming at best in both flavor and texture.  I have given it 3 years to improve its output, but it consistently delivers undersized fruit with a moderate amount of fiber and a funky taste.  I thinned the fruit to just 3 hanging mangos this year with no improvement.  The fruit are oblong, with a faint blush, medium skin thickness, and yellow/orange fruit.  The flavor could best be described as cola with no hint of indochinese or southeast Asian flavor that I have ever tasted.  Iíve heard the ďcolaĒ flavor described before but never believed that could be an accurate description of a mango.  I stand corrected, mango can definitely taste like cola and I donít like it.  This tree is a definite candidate for top working based on these undesirable characteristics.  I might keep one branch ungrafted just in case the tree eventually improves its fruit quality. 






gozp

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #180 on: September 15, 2022, 01:17:42 PM »
Here are a photos of m4 seedling.... so damn goood... 1st time it fruited considering its this 1st year, flavor can still get sweeter.


Going back, when i was in Florida my buddy got me multiple m4s and this was a seedling of it.













Jagmanjoe

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #181 on: September 15, 2022, 06:01:11 PM »
Here are a photos of m4 seedling.... so damn goood... 1st time it fruited considering its this 1st year, flavor can still get sweeter.


Going back, when i was in Florida my buddy got me multiple m4s and this was a seedling of it.













Can you share how old the tree is for this first fruiting?

Thanks

gozp

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #182 on: September 15, 2022, 06:04:58 PM »
I forgot to add. That was 2017... lived through a 5 gal pot (unprotectwd from winter) till i recently planted it early this year.

FruitFool

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #183 on: September 16, 2022, 12:45:24 AM »
gozp,

Did you detect any coconut flavor in your M4 seedling?

Fruitfool

simon_grow

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #184 on: September 16, 2022, 11:11:14 AM »
I was walking through the garden Yesterday and found one of my E4 seedling fruits on the ground. It had colored up a bit on the tree and Iíve noticed that the sun exposed areas get a strange mottled color similar to my Venus fruits. It could just be sunburn, Iím not really sure. Anyways, according to post #35 on this thread, this tree is now 3 years old and it had 4 scaffold branches when it bloomed last winter.

The blooms are very disease resistant and I had a very high fruit set per panicle. I thinned each panicle down to one fruit, I really should have only let it hold one fruit, but I really wanted to see if it could actually mature the 4 fruit. The 4 fruit did grow, one fell off and is ripening, one is colored up on the tree and the last two should be ready soon.

Coincidentally, on the same day, I also found an actual grafted real E4 fruit on the ground. It looked dark green but it fell off from the wind or on its own so I hope it will ripen properly. Here are some pictures.








Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #185 on: September 16, 2022, 11:22:43 AM »
Regarding my E4 seedling, it bloomed last Winter and in Summer, it sprouted many branches from the lower portion of the tree.


Here are some pictures of the remaining fruit hanging on the tree.






The original main scaffold branches have unfortunately dropped down from the weight of the fruit.


If this E4 seedling happens to be a clone, it may have the added benefit of coloring up when it is fully mature and ready to harvest making it significantly easier for people to determine when it is ready to pick.

If this happens to be a zygotic seedling, I hope that it will have the flavor profile similar or better than the real E4 and hopefully it will have less fiber.

I will post a full taste report with Brix readings when these fruit ripen. Iím not expecting ultra high Brix from these fruit as this tree has very few leaves and the tree is only 3 years old. Next year, I will allow 40-60 leaves per fruit to see what itís full potential is.

Simon

K-Rimes

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #186 on: September 16, 2022, 02:20:57 PM »
I've planted out a couple valencia prides (one at work, one at home), a few orange essence (one at work, one at home) and they seem to be doing really well. I hope to report in this thread in about 3-4 years.

simon_grow

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #187 on: September 17, 2022, 12:15:15 AM »
Awesome K-Rimes, feel free to post some pictures if youíd like. Seeing before and after pictures can help others see how the shape of the trees change as the scaffold branches form and as we prune our trees with various techniques.

Simon

FruitFool

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #188 on: September 18, 2022, 12:27:57 PM »
Simon,

Your E4 seeding has that nipple at top which I saw
in real E4 from Florida. Hopefully it will also have taste of original or better.

Fruitfool

simon_grow

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #189 on: September 20, 2022, 02:02:50 AM »
Good to know FruitFool, I never paid attention to the nipple.

Both the E4 and the E4 seedling fruit smelled super good last night and had a little give so I put them in the fridge last night and cut them open tonight.

Both mangos had a slight coconut flavored Lifesavers smell to it and they both had a very mild tropical smell that was a fantastic combination.

Both mangos were drops so there was quite a bit of damage on the nose end.

The real E4 mango weighed in at around 11 oz and it was still green in color. The flesh color was yellowish orange and the Brix was 18.4% with such a low Brix, I wasnít expecting much from this fruit but after one bite, I was in heaven. It tasted like the typical E4 that was fully ripened meaning it had that coconutty taste with just a tinge of tropical mango flavor. This is the best tasting mango Iíve ever had with such a low Brix reading. Thereís just something about the complex depth or layers of flavor that make this variety so special. Itís that coconut background with the candy lifesavers combined with that hint of tropical flavor that just makes this variety pop.

Iíve had many other E4 mangos with higher Brix that tasted better than this fruit but at this Brix, it was the best mango I can recall.








The Seedling E4 was just like the real E4 except it had a Brix of 21.5% and tasted correspondingly better. This seedling fruit was just a bit sweeter and a bit more coconutty and just a slightly stronger taste probably due to the higher Brix. The Seedling E4 weighed in at around 13 oz.

The real E4 and the Seedling E4 tasted so similar that the slight differences are most likely attributed to the differences in Brix alone.

Iím guessing that this E4 seedling is likely a clone but for some reason, when it ripens, itís skin color changes. This difference in Phenotype may be attributed to genetic drift, epigenetics or I could be completely wrong and maybe it is a zygotic seedling that just tastes like the real E4, I really donít know.

I need to observe the rest of the fruit on this tree to see if they also turn yellow as it becomes tree ripened. The first two fruit definitely changed colors as you can see from the pictures I posted but we did have a heatwave which may have caused the skin to burn and turn that color.

If this seedling does consistently turn color when tree ripened, it can be very beneficial to growers that want to grow E4 but have a difficulty determining when to pick their fruit. I have one more fruit ripening in the garage and two more still hanging on the tree so Iíll update as they ripen.










Oh yeah, the E4 seedling had a completely aborted embryo and the real E4 had a very small embryo.

Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #190 on: September 20, 2022, 02:03:42 AM »
Real E4 embryo/seed

Simon

SHV

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #191 on: September 20, 2022, 08:22:24 AM »
Great review Simon. This makes me really excited for my Sugarloaf seedling.  Itís only 3 years old, but pushing 5 feet tall and real bushy.  Itís grown like a weed since I planted it in the ground 2 years ago. Iím hoping it pushes flowers next year. If so, I may let it hold one fruit even though my general rule is 5 years before allowing to fruit. 

Eggo

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #192 on: September 20, 2022, 02:25:02 PM »
Awesome review Simon!  When will scions be available, lol. j/k.

Looking forward to seeing more of your reviews as your various seedlings begin to fruit.

fliptop

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #193 on: September 20, 2022, 05:10:07 PM »
Awesome reports, Simon and gozp!

Simon, did you only get/plant one seedling from the original Sugarloaf seed?

gozp, any updates on the M-4 seedling taste?

K-Rimes

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #194 on: September 20, 2022, 05:54:08 PM »


Valencia pride at home



Orange essence at home



Orange essence at work



Valencia pride at work

The woodchips at work tend to float inward to the trunk when I water so I just scoot them back each time. The orange essence at work and VP at home were planted on the same week, interesting to see the differences between the one at home which suffers much more inland heat sometimes near 110f vs at work where they never see much more than 80f (by the sea). The soil is drastically different from my house to work, I'm basically just on ancient seabed sand (very little organic matter) whereas at work it's a heavy clay.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2022, 05:58:04 PM by K-Rimes »

Oolie

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #195 on: September 20, 2022, 07:42:09 PM »
Interesting Simon, when you first posted pics of the two fruit, I thought looks like the yellow one is the same, but with an aborted seed, your tasting of it is further evidence in support of the guess.

You will know in a couple years whether they are identical, especially if you graft both of them on the same rootstock.

simon_grow

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #196 on: September 20, 2022, 09:29:36 PM »
Thanks everyone,

I will grow out this seedling a bit more and then I will share some scions with those active in the rare fruit community. I still need to make sure the color change isnít because of sunburn.

I grew out multiple E4 seedlings and I believe the other clones were brought over to Spaughís (Brads) orchard. I also have two other E4 seedling grafts on others trees so we will see how those turn out.

Oolie, those are two different fruit. The green fruit is the real E4 and the mottled yellow one is my seedling E4. I have two fruit that are still green on the tree so as long as we donít have another heatwave, a change in color would suggest there are slight differences between the real E4 and the seedling.

Simon

SHV

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #197 on: September 23, 2022, 02:27:03 PM »
Mexican Kent seedling

As mentioned in a previous post, Iím growing out a bunch of Kent seedlings from store bought mangos as rootstock for future top working. A single 3 year old, 3 foot tall tree was hiding a couple small fruit that ripened on the tree. I believe the TFF term would be Ďnubbinsí.  Cut it open and it tasted like a ripe Kent.  Nothing too special, other than it being candy sweet.  Itís crazy how quickly seedling mangos can fruit here in CA under the right conditions, even if the fruit size is less than desirable. 







simon_grow

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #198 on: September 24, 2022, 02:25:14 AM »
Congratulations, hopefully you will get some full sized fruit in the coming years.

Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #199 on: September 24, 2022, 09:00:06 PM »
Here is the first fruit from my Pina Colada seedling grafted onto my mature tree. The fruit was turning yellow on the bottom half so I decided to pick it and allow it to ripen off the tree. Itís a small fruit and Iím hoping this seedling will taste like the real Pina Colada.

This Pina Colada seedling has grown very well for me and the blooms are very disease resistant. This has been a bad year for mangos in much of the SoCal area but this variety has remained productive. Iíll repost back with a taste report once the fruit fully ripens. I can already smell a bit of that Pina Colada aroma.







Simon

 

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