Author Topic: Citrangequat(but Meiwa)  (Read 419 times)

Enigmius

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Citrangequat(but Meiwa)
« on: January 30, 2023, 08:43:54 AM »
I wonder why, when citrus horticulturists were crossing citranges with kumquats, they always use nagami.
For instance "Thomasville"  and "Telfair" citrangequats are both crises of Nagami kumquat and Willitis citrange.
Sinton citrangequat is a cross of a Rusk citrange and a nagami kumquat.
Where are the meiwa crosses though? Doe anyone know if Swingle ever tried those crosses and it just didn't work out, or was the meiwa not available at that time?

poncirsguy

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Re: Citrangequat(but Meiwa)
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2023, 09:28:06 AM »
I did not realize that.  Marumi can survive 10F colder than ether Meiwa or Nagami.  why not that cross.

sc4001992

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Re: Citrangequat(but Meiwa)
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2023, 10:12:14 AM »
I do notice that Nagami grows strong, has tons of fruits, but Meiwa is a slow grower, doesn't have a many fruits as Nagami so they probably used the strong variety.

vnomonee

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Re: Citrangequat(but Meiwa)
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2023, 10:47:42 AM »
Nagami produces hybrids more readily than Meiwa (when used as a mother). Meiwa is something like 99% nucellar don't quote me on that. It would be a good idea to use meiwa as a pollen parent given that the fruit is sweeter! If my Morton citrange blooms this spring I'm going to try just that. Also thinking of using taitri but that has not bloomed for me yet.

tedburn

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Re: Citrangequat(but Meiwa)
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2023, 11:55:57 AM »
I did not realize that.  Marumi can survive 10F colder than ether Meiwa or Nagami.  why not that cross.

I always read that Marumi and Meiwa have about the same frosthardiness of about -12°C. Did you test the both in your ground comparable and recognized the differenze in frosthardiness ? I only have meiwa and fukushu, but not in ground yet.

Enigmius

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Re: Citrangequat(but Meiwa)
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2023, 12:52:13 PM »
Nagami produces hybrids more readily than Meiwa (when used as a mother). Meiwa is something like 99% nucellar don't quote me on that. It would be a good idea to use meiwa as a pollen parent given that the fruit is sweeter! If my Morton citrange blooms this spring I'm going to try just that. Also thinking of using taitri but that has not bloomed for me yet.

Well I suppose that answers my question on why Nagami was originally selected.
But yes, I would be very interested to see if you could get a Morton X Meiwa citrangequat cross.
Also how would you know? Would it be apparent from the seed formation differing from the normal morton shape/size in the selectively pollinated fruit, or would you only know once the seed sprouts revealing it to be dicot in nature?

vnomonee

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Re: Citrangequat(but Meiwa)
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2023, 06:14:02 PM »
From my understanding Morton is mostly seedless unless pollinated so forming seeds is a good indicator that it was atleast pollinated. I don't have a trained eye to see seed differences like that but that is a thing others on the forum have demonstrated. I would have to grow the seeds and select for characteristics of kumquat (leaf shape, size, color, etc)

Nagami produces hybrids more readily than Meiwa (when used as a mother). Meiwa is something like 99% nucellar don't quote me on that. It would be a good idea to use meiwa as a pollen parent given that the fruit is sweeter! If my Morton citrange blooms this spring I'm going to try just that. Also thinking of using taitri but that has not bloomed for me yet.

Well I suppose that answers my question on why Nagami was originally selected.
But yes, I would be very interested to see if you could get a Morton X Meiwa citrangequat cross.
Also how would you know? Would it be apparent from the seed formation differing from the normal morton shape/size in the selectively pollinated fruit, or would you only know once the seed sprouts revealing it to be dicot in nature?

Enigmius

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Re: Citrangequat(but Meiwa)
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2023, 10:56:47 AM »
From my understanding Morton is mostly seedless unless pollinated so forming seeds is a good indicator that it was atleast pollinated. I don't have a trained eye to see seed differences like that but that is a thing others on the forum have demonstrated. I would have to grow the seeds and select for characteristics of kumquat (leaf shape, size, color, etc)

Nagami produces hybrids more readily than Meiwa (when used as a mother). Meiwa is something like 99% nucellar don't quote me on that. It would be a good idea to use meiwa as a pollen parent given that the fruit is sweeter! If my Morton citrange blooms this spring I'm going to try just that. Also thinking of using taitri but that has not bloomed for me yet.

Well I suppose that answers my question on why Nagami was originally selected.
But yes, I would be very interested to see if you could get a Morton X Meiwa citrangequat cross.
Also how would you know? Would it be apparent from the seed formation differing from the normal morton shape/size in the selectively pollinated fruit, or would you only know once the seed sprouts revealing it to be dicot in nature?

Groovy! Well I look forward to seeing if your's flowers and are able to make a cross.

poncirsguy

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Re: Citrangequat(but Meiwa)
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2023, 04:47:43 PM »
Marumi is Zygotic

Perplexed

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Re: Citrangequat(but Meiwa)
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2023, 04:59:37 PM »
I keep hearing conflictions between kumquat varieties being zygotic or not. So meiwa is zygotic?

poncirsguy

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Re: Citrangequat(but Meiwa)
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2023, 12:36:31 AM »
Meiwa grows true to parent tree.  So is Fukushu.

Perplexed

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Re: Citrangequat(but Meiwa)
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2023, 11:58:46 AM »
So the only zygotic ones are nagami and marumi

Enigmius

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Re: Citrangequat(but Meiwa)
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2023, 12:54:43 PM »
It would be interesting to see a Maurimi x Cintrange, and to see how that stacks-up in comparison to a "thomasville" in flavor.
The only reason I specified "Meiwa" is because it is so sweet and could be an interesting combination with a citrange.

I think meiwa can have polyembryonic seeds, so wouldn't that mean that crossing is possible?

Till

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Re: Citrangequat(but Meiwa)
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2023, 01:02:14 PM »
Can't you use Meiwa as pollen parent on Swingle 5 Star, Sanford Citrange or US852? I have also an Citrumelo (presumably Sacaton / Yuma Citrange) that has relatively sweet fruits. I would not recomment their taste to anybody because of their bitterness and Poncirus influence but besides that they were quite fruity and aromatic. A cross with kumquat would have much potential... The bigger peel of a citrumelo in combination with the thick peel of Meiwa might also give a nice result. My citrumelo seems to be monoembryonic.

Walt

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Re: Citrangequat(but Meiwa)
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2023, 02:28:30 PM »
I was thinking about that cross Till.  It doesn't fit in with my breeding plans or goals.  But it would certainly interest me.






vnomonee

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Re: Citrangequat(but Meiwa)
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2023, 02:43:49 PM »
Taitrai (hardy in my northern zone 7a thus far!) x Meiwa might make something Meyer lemon-like and possible zone 7 hardy. My taitri is not mature yet, 1 year old from seed and then 3 years in ground no flowers yet.

 

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