Poll

What kind of avocados would you buy?

Hass
29 (13.1%)
Reed
49 (22.2%)
Nabal
24 (10.9%)
Sharwil
49 (22.2%)
Gem
21 (9.5%)
Carmen
11 (5%)
Lamb
7 (3.2%)
Pinkerton
31 (14%)

Total Members Voted: 72

Author Topic: Avocado poll  (Read 10462 times)

Mark in Texas

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Re: Avocado poll
« Reply #75 on: March 07, 2022, 02:06:03 PM »

Bluebonnets are awesome!  One of my favorite Texas things, along with BBQ.

Yes siree!

Mark in Texas

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Re: Avocado poll
« Reply #76 on: March 07, 2022, 02:08:29 PM »
This is a picture of my , uh seriously 10 year old grafted Gem.
I have always thought the allure behind this variety was the perfect initials of its patentor.
What makes it the B grades?



Something's wrong my friend.  That thing should be 15' tall.

GEM is a strong grower albeit not near as vigorous as say....Sharwil or Reed.

Bush2Beach

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Re: Avocado poll
« Reply #77 on: March 07, 2022, 03:46:48 PM »
This Gem should have kicked the bucket long ago. Its a joke. I think its on Duke or some rootstock my soil hates.

fruitmonger

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Re: Avocado poll
« Reply #78 on: March 07, 2022, 04:29:22 PM »
Question being....what avocado would I buy?

Answers:

Late Season:  Monroe, Choquette, Booth 5, 7 or 8, Lula (even though they are ugly (lenticel corking) they taste great and there is no better source of rootstock)

Early Season: Dupuis, Simmons, Tonnage, Trapp

There are more....and although I can get Oro Negro I don't find them any more tasty than other varieties that come on late like they do....personally I think a properly matured Monroe is hard to beat.....even by Hass.

I know people will think I am nuts but Hass IMO is super over rated. 

West Coast green skin props to Fuerte, Bacon and others....lots of good and great green skin avocado in Cali

Red Skin are good too....Hardee and more
"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now." Chinese proverb

spaugh

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Re: Avocado poll
« Reply #79 on: March 07, 2022, 04:47:46 PM »
I have a gem thats 3 or 4 years old its around 10ft tall and full of fruit.  Its a good tree especially for comercial because it stays small and can be grown high density and makes lots of nice looking fruit.  Has a thick skin, peels, turns black....  also catchy name.

Personally i think sharwil (and others)taste better though.  Just had one the other day tasted like butter.  Was really great and was still no where near optimal.  Needs 2 more months.

Theres a reason I planted more sharwils and not gems.  If I was selling to a packing house, Id be growing gems like everyone else.  Tons of farms are installing gem. 

Im not sure if I called it "b grade".  Maybe, have to go back and look.  For sure lamb and sir prize, grays other 2 varieties are B grade to me.  They grew 10,000 seeds and thats what they came up with.  Those 3 varieties.  None as good as the original hass.  Gem, i still need to try more to say that with certainty.  But im 100% sure on lamb and sir prize.  Sir prize definitely loser.  Lamb is ok for late commercial but flavor is just not A grade. 

« Last Edit: March 07, 2022, 04:52:20 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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Re: Avocado poll
« Reply #80 on: March 08, 2022, 09:34:07 AM »
My aggie guru sent some fine links on Maluma.  It really has potential. Also withstands heat as grown in the hot areas of Queensland Australia. Peduncle is stronger than Hass meaning it holds better during strong winds.  There are embedded links worth reading in the last link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maluma_%28avocado%29
https://www.lauriemeadows.info/food_garden/fruit/Avocado_cv_Maluma_Hass.html
https://www.freshfruitportal.com/news/2017/05/02/maluma-avocado-hits-gas-catch-hass/

If the fruit is good GEM may be my best tree, next to Reed.  I grafted (top worked) a Jan Boyce branch last year and damn if it's not loaded with blooms! 

spaugh

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Re: Avocado poll
« Reply #81 on: March 08, 2022, 03:16:35 PM »
The maluma looks exactly like hass to me.  Seems suspect.  But maybe just a hassxhass seedling.

The jan boyce is nice but the fruit drop easily and the tree doesnt do well in the heat here.  Nice tasting fruit but the tree has a few problems for me.  Will be interesting to see how yours come out mark.  I would guess they will be ready to pick by december there.  They are dropping on the ground ripe here already mice are eating my fancy jan boyces. 
« Last Edit: March 08, 2022, 03:19:00 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Re: Avocado poll
« Reply #82 on: March 08, 2022, 04:30:32 PM »
Brad....do large greenskin varieties not grow well in your area?

Have you ever eaten a Monroe or a Brooks Late?

Have you ever eaten a very late season Florida avocado.

Ever eaten a Buck or a Wheeling?  (these are patented varieties that seldom if ever go to California)

Just wondering.

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now." Chinese proverb

voyager

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Re: Avocado poll
« Reply #83 on: March 08, 2022, 06:01:52 PM »
I don't see a post by me, so here goes:
I have 3 avocado trees:  a Sharwil, an Ota and a Lamb Hass, in that order of preference.
All taste very good and are acceptable.
I think the Sharwil and Ota  are a bit better.
I believe they have a higher oil content.
The Sharwils edges the Ota out because of their size.
They can go larger than 1-1/2#.
A full avo is a fill up, a meal in itself.
The Otas are more regular in size.
You gotta eat two or more of them.

While the Lamb Hass is last in place, I won't bad mouth it.
It is still a very good avo.

Elevation, weather, and soil all affect an avo's quality.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2022, 06:20:27 PM by voyager »

spaugh

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Re: Avocado poll
« Reply #84 on: March 08, 2022, 06:21:20 PM »
Brad....do large greenskin varieties not grow well in your area?

Have you ever eaten a Monroe or a Brooks Late?

Have you ever eaten a very late season Florida avocado.

Ever eaten a Buck or a Wheeling?  (these are patented varieties that seldom if ever go to California)

Just wondering.

Never had any of those.  But I do have many large green skin avocados.  But they are guatemalan not west indian. 
Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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Re: Avocado poll
« Reply #85 on: March 09, 2022, 07:59:15 AM »
Sorry about your JB Brad! 

The maluma looks exactly like hass to me.  Seems suspect.  But maybe just a hassxhass seedling.

Suspect?

Or course it looks similiar, it's a sport of Hass, just like you'd find with other fruit trees where one tree stands out, is different, out of an orchard of say..... 500 trees.  For example my VERY favorite grapefruit, Rio Red, was a sport of an old popular grapefruit,  Ruby Red selected in the citrus growing area of the RGV Texas.  Looks very similar to Ruby Red but the flesh is very red with a reddish tinge to the skin when mature.  It was propagated via tissue culture then released to the public and commercial grower.   Same with Maluma, it is propagated via tissue culture, cloning.

Again, a clone of the original with different attributes, traits.  Some will be appealing to those (who hold a certain criteria) some won't.  As you know I have a vineyard and with each varietal there are a few to many clones available for sale.  One clone might have a large open cluster with smaller grapes, another clone might have a smaller bunch that has bigger grapes and a tight cluster.  It's still the same varietal.  There were about 8 clones of Merlot available when I went shopping for that varietal.  I chose the proclaimed "best" sourced from a vineyard in Beaucastel France.

Grow hard,
Mark
« Last Edit: March 09, 2022, 08:30:18 AM by Mark in Texas »

Mark in Texas

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Re: Avocado poll
« Reply #86 on: March 09, 2022, 08:00:32 AM »
Elevation, weather, and soil all affect an avo's quality.

"Terroir" aloha style.    ;)

spaugh

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Re: Avocado poll
« Reply #87 on: March 09, 2022, 10:15:45 AM »
Sorry about your JB Brad! 

The maluma looks exactly like hass to me.  Seems suspect.  But maybe just a hassxhass seedling.

Suspect?

Or course it looks similiar, it's a sport of Hass, just like you'd find with other fruit trees where one tree stands out, is different, out of an orchard of say..... 500 trees.  For example my VERY favorite grapefruit, Rio Red, was a sport of an old popular grapefruit,  Ruby Red selected in the citrus growing area of the RGV Texas.  Looks very similar to Ruby Red but the flesh is very red with a reddish tinge to the skin when mature.  It was propagated via tissue culture then released to the public and commercial grower.   Same with Maluma, it is propagated via tissue culture, cloning.

Again, a clone of the original with different attributes, traits.  Some will be appealing to those (who hold a certain criteria) some won't.  As you know I have a vineyard and with each varietal there are a few to many clones available for sale.  One clone might have a large open cluster with smaller grapes, another clone might have a smaller bunch that has bigger grapes and a tight cluster.  It's still the same varietal.  There were about 8 clones of Merlot available when I went shopping for that varietal.  I chose the proclaimed "best" sourced from a vineyard in Beaucastel France.

Grow hard,
Mark

one of the links you posted said it was a chance seedling at the maluma ranch.  With "unknown" lineage.  Its obviously hass parentage. The odds of getting what appears almost an exact clone of hass from a chance seedling seems pretty  unlikely.  Then I assume this new variety has been patented?  So basically its hass but you have to pay royalty?  Thats what Im getting at. 

You have to realize Im always skeptical of everything Mark.  I want to know the details and who is making money off of everything.  Whether its fruit or medicines, technology, war, etc. 

That said, you got some of them maluma scions to share or you just teasing us?   :)  Ill happily grow one if its available.

I put in a bunch of hass trees on dusa clonal rootstocks this year.  The dusa trees are in a row side by side with a row of zutano rootstock trees.  I would like to try this new mulama hass type side by side also. They claim it makes nearly 2X as much fruit as regular hass.  I find these claims hard to believe.  For me seeing is believing.  These claims may be based on higher density of planting.  If you grow hass you will see it loads itself with fruit to the point of sagging and breaking branches.  So when someone claims their new hass clone makes 50% more, it seems unlikely. 

But who knows?  Like I said, Ill grow it if its available. 

On a similar subject, if you look at the dusa rootstock hype they claim hass makes more fruit on it than other rootstocks.  I read the technical documents and trial data etc that the university published.  They did all kinds of experiments to come up with this claim.  But nowhere in there did they include the zutano seedling as a control group.  Its like a whole bunch of academic masterbation they put out and failed to include the gold standard as a reference.  I mentioned this to Gray Martin, he seemed to be in agreement that data could be twisted to try and force a conclusion with this rootstock business.  It was an interesting conversation. 
« Last Edit: March 09, 2022, 12:43:41 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

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Lovetoplant

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Re: Avocado poll
« Reply #89 on: March 09, 2022, 07:06:29 PM »
Brad, do you make your own dusa rootstock from a tree on dusa or just buy them from a nursery?  Just curious, thanks

spaugh

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Re: Avocado poll
« Reply #90 on: March 09, 2022, 08:59:29 PM »
Brad, do you make your own dusa rootstock from a tree on dusa or just buy them from a nursery?  Just curious, thanks

No I bought the clonal rootstock trees.   Thats too involved of a process for me and I dont own any dusa material.  Theres a place down here that sells them locally.
Brad Spaugh

Mark in Texas

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Re: Avocado poll
« Reply #91 on: March 10, 2022, 09:08:15 AM »
one of the links you posted said it was a chance seedling at the maluma ranch.  With "unknown" lineage.  Its obviously hass parentage. The odds of getting what appears almost an exact clone of hass from a chance seedling seems pretty  unlikely.  Then I assume this new variety has been patented?  So basically its hass but you have to pay royalty?  Thats what Im getting at.

You have to realize Im always skeptical of everything Mark.  I want to know the details and who is making money off of everything.  Whether its fruit or medicines, technology, war, etc. 

You and me both brother.  I'm very much a skeptic and cynical of what I hear and read.  I'm just relaying what the Aggie specialist is telling me.  I'll be glad to give you his work number if you want to chat with him.  He's pretty sharp.

I haven't considered getting scions, but I'll see what I can do.

Quote
I put in a bunch of hass trees on dusa clonal rootstocks this year.  The dusa trees are in a row side by side with a row of zutano rootstock trees.  I would like to try this new mulama hass type side by side also. They claim it makes nearly 2X as much fruit as regular hass.  I find these claims hard to believe.  For me seeing is believing.  These claims may be based on higher density of planting.  If you grow hass you will see it loads itself with fruit to the point of sagging and breaking branches.  So when someone claims their new hass clone makes 50% more, it seems unlikely. 
 

If they have a profit making stake, then yes, they're going to make big claims.  The money goes to the propagating nurseries via royalties though. Performance is directly related to ALL the factors that go into production, of any fruit, especially location and the clime, weather and soil profile of a particular area.  If a farmer says it's producing 50% more in Australia, then good on him.   Apparently it has merit or they wouldn't be swapping out Hass for it, don't care if it came from Mars.  ;D

Quote
On a similar subject, if you look at the dusa rootstock hype they claim hass makes more fruit on it than other rootstocks.  I read the technical documents and trial data etc that the university published.  They did all kinds of experiments to come up with this claim.  But nowhere in there did they include the zutano seedling as a control group.  Its like a whole bunch of academic masterbation they put out and failed to include the gold standard as a reference.  I mentioned this to Gray Martin, he seemed to be in agreement that data could be twisted to try and force a conclusion with this rootstock business.  It was an interesting conversation.

I can only imagine.  I also questioned one of the positions Gray put forth.  I find some recommendations aka "standard procedures" with some Aggie fruit specialists ridiculous too, like rough pruning vineyards in the winter.  It actually promotes early budbreak thru the re-distribution of auxins, the very outcome you're trying to prevent in case of a late frost.....and it's make work-requiring a helluva lot of labor which is in short supply here.

Regards,
Mark

jtnguyen333

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Re: Avocado poll
« Reply #92 on: March 21, 2022, 05:32:41 PM »
Brad..

I remember you have a nimlioh in your yard.  Has it fruited for you yet?  How does it taste?


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Re: Avocado poll
« Reply #93 on: March 21, 2022, 07:14:20 PM »
Brad -
Oro Negro seems to be the chefs fave here. The one I planted last year crosses with a Hass in backyard. Oro has excellent flavor IMO.  I also have Hardee Red and Lula.  Good flavor from those.