Author Topic: Growing under LEDís  (Read 578 times)

franklazar26

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Growing under LEDís
« on: July 28, 2022, 08:25:17 PM »
Do any of you grow with LEDís through the winter? I unfortunately have NO natural light indoors so they must strictly be grown with artificial lighting.

Note I use pretty powerful lighting, in order to replicate full sun, however, as you can already guess, nothing can truly replicate Mother Nature. My plants always start out great and grow well for the first month or so, things start to grow yellow and stressed. I typically keep my lights around 75% (noting that 100% really stressed them out) and on for 14-16 hours, off the rest. I feed them properly and meticulously with a very well balanced fertilizer. I would like to see if anyone else has these sorts of issues and how they go about correcting them before things are needed to come indoors.

The lights I use are a mixture of high output sonofarm LEDís. Links below.

(X2) https://sonofarm.com/product/sonofarm-spider-farmer-sf1000-pro-series-1000-full-spectrum-samsung-led-grow-light/
(X1) https://sonofarm.com/product/sonofarm-spider-farmer-sf4000-led-grow-light-full-spectrum-samsung-lm301b-diodes-meanwell-driver/

I just recently moved these trees outdoors after sitting a month or so indoors under these lights.







The same varieties outdoors show no signs of these, and are treated the same otherwise. Are these lights just too much? Can water pH do this? (Ones outside get some rain water obviously along with the hose) as I am on city water. Anyone recommend a good way to test soil pH?

Any input on this situation, Iíd appreciate it! Winters are usually incredibly hard, hoping to get through this next one without as much loss. Prepping is key! Lol.

« Last Edit: July 28, 2022, 08:27:50 PM by franklazar26 »

deRoode

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Re: Growing under LEDís
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2022, 02:48:13 AM »
For the LEDs, it depends on what you want to achieve. Do you want to maintain the plants inside until spring? Then I would say you need minimal light. The risk with having a strong light source is that it might trigger flowering (if induction was done outside) or vegatative growth. If your tree can then not sustain that new growth, due to the climate not being optimal, it can kill your trees. I have unfortunately killed trees by moving them inside and letting them grow uncontrollably.

In regards to the deficiency symptoms; I would indeed start with measuring soil pH! An offset pH can interfere with nutrition uptake.

Millet

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Re: Growing under LEDís
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2022, 12:16:52 PM »
I don't think your trees symptoms come from the LED lighting.  The leaves are showing the typical sign of an iron deficiency. The leaf symptoms for iron deficiency are:  New leaves with green veins on otherwise yellowish leaves. An iron deficiency is often caused by high pH rather than a shortage of minerals.

W.

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Re: Growing under LEDís
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2022, 06:48:19 PM »
I grow mine under fluorescent lights in the winter, and they put out nice, new, green foliage in the winter, usually in February or March, about a month or so before they are put outside for the growing season. They do not have any signs of deficiencies in their new growth like yours show.

vnomonee

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Re: Growing under LEDís
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2022, 07:03:54 PM »
I grow under LEDs in the winter and actually my new leaves get huge but chlorotic / yellowing does not happen if anything I get leaf drop before I notice this.

Outdoors if my plants have been getting constant water esp since the heat is having me water daily, I do see this on the new leaves and I assume its nutrients washing out or a PH change like you said causing uptake problems. It eventually corrects itself since I do apply diluted fertilizer once or twice monthly with watering. Try lightly fertilizing if you haven't already.

pagnr

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Re: Growing under LEDís
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2022, 07:09:44 PM »
 "An iron deficiency is often caused by high pH rather than a shortage of minerals"

Another factor that could induce Iron deficiency in Citrus is high Phosphorous in fertiliser, particularly in container plants.
It is often recommended to keep the P in NPK at around 2 or 2.5 %.
Other sources of P are detergents in recycled soapy water, or water softening agents in the water supply.
Some pot mixes may also contain P sources when mixed.
As stated above, the pH of soil or container mix is as much a factor in nutrient symptoms as the levels of nutrients themselves.

How is the pot soil temperature difference between the indoor lit plants and the outdoor plants ?
Does this affect root activity or rootstock dormancy.

Melenduwir

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Re: Growing under LEDís
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2022, 08:28:24 PM »
The pigmentation concerns me much more than the light.

I note that some compounds are less available at certain temperatures.  What temperature are these plants kept at during the winter?  I suspect some combination of watering/fertilization/temperature is resulting in deficiencies as the plant grows without the nutrients to sustain the new tissue.

Foliar feeding of chelated iron - which can be as simple as the cooking water from greens - might help.

With my own plants, my only goal over the winter is to keep them alive - they get weak light from a window with indirect exposure, and that's all.  They don't grow, but they don't develop deficiency problems either.

W.

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Re: Growing under LEDís
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2022, 09:03:15 PM »
With my own plants, my only goal over the winter is to keep them alive - they get weak light from a window with indirect exposure, and that's all.  They don't grow, but they don't develop deficiency problems either.

That is my goal with my citrus. I never expect them to grow; I just apparently give them the environment and nutrients where they will put on some growth indoors. It is much more important to me that I do not lose any citrus over the winter.

franklazar26

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Re: Growing under LEDís
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2022, 06:08:01 AM »
The pigmentation concerns me much more than the light.

I note that some compounds are less available at certain temperatures.  What temperature are these plants kept at during the winter?  I suspect some combination of watering/fertilization/temperature is resulting in deficiencies as the plant grows without the nutrients to sustain the new tissue.

Foliar feeding of chelated iron - which can be as simple as the cooking water from greens - might help.

With my own plants, my only goal over the winter is to keep them alive - they get weak light from a window with indirect exposure, and that's all.  They don't grow, but they don't develop deficiency problems either.

Theyíre kept rather warm, maybe anywhere from 72-82F? Thanks for the tips with it. I do have things temp controlled too which I forgot to say! Due to everyone elseís comments, I believe itís in my water. Once theyíre outdoors they mostly get the slightly acidic rain water for the most part, while inside they get my tap water -which is probably high in salts and high pH. Iím going to look into the pH and do some adjustments to see if that will help.

franklazar26

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Re: Growing under LEDís
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2022, 06:09:19 AM »
I don't think your trees symptoms come from the LED lighting.  The leaves are showing the typical sign of an iron deficiency. The leaf symptoms for iron deficiency are:  New leaves with green veins on otherwise yellowish leaves. An iron deficiency is often caused by high pH rather than a shortage of minerals.

I think youíre right Millet. I believe this is pH related. Iím doing some soil and salt testing, as well as some water tests and will go from there.

1rainman

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Re: Growing under LEDís
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2022, 11:26:39 AM »
When I was growing my meyer lemon in ohio I had it under full spectrum flourescent lights. Either just a regular light bulb used for lighting but full spectrum. It should look bright white to your eyes rather than the orange glowy ones which or not good. Or sometimes I used a sun-glo reptile bulb which was also full spectrum bright white but also had some UV in it and slightly different spectrum than the other full spectrum so just gave it more variety.

I watered it with tap water and everything. It was healthier and bloomed more when outside, but meyer blooms year round and I got blooms in winter and the tree was overall healthy. Like I said not quite as happy indoors but I tried to keep it near and window and I had the flourscent on for like 12-14 hours. Seemed to do fine.

You could have salts/minerals building up from tap water. You could do a flush by buying a couple gallons of distilled water, take it in a sink or outside, let the water run out of the bottom of the pot- taking the salts with it. Citrus should be tolerant of soil thats a bit alkaline or bit acidic. It's not that picky about acidity. But tap water if its flowing in, but not flowing out, over time whatever minerals or salts are in it might build up in the soil and need flushed. Or it may be the LEDs. I have to agree with W. I used fluorescent lights and they did fine.

The only thing with a flourescent bulb is it is so weak you need it pretty close to the plant if possible or try to use reflective surfaces to reflect more of the light on the plant or use multiple bulbs. It was getting a more diffuse type of light in the winter on mine, but seemed to do alright. I put it outside as soon as temperatures were warm enough. It was inside as little as possible, but that still was like four or five months out of the year in ohio and I was getting lemons on it. If I kept it indoors year round under those conditions it probably wouldn't have done too well though.

1rainman

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Re: Growing under LEDís
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2022, 11:34:04 AM »
You get one of these "tropical" bulbs. It is as close to sunlight as it gets. When I'm up north in the winter I want to bask under this bulb. Then combine it with just a regular full spectrum white flourescent from walmart or wherever to give it a more full spectrum range of light. Seemed to be the best on my plants. Though I never tried LED or other types of light.

Don't get the "desert" bulbs for reptiles. It is mostly UV light and will glow purple. If it looks bright almost blinding white to your eyeball its pretty good light for the plant. Same with the lightbulbs at the store. If it looks red, orange, dim white, not too good, should be really bright full white. You can use orange bulbs and stuff to induce flowering or whatever other purposes but I never tried any of that. My Tropical bulb was maybe more orange than the full spectrum home bulb but it's so bright I can barely look at it, looks like sunlight to me. But they seem to do better with a combination of both rather than one or the other.

https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Repti-Glo-Fluorescent-Terrarium/dp/B01CEXCIIW/ref=sr_1_43?crid=YFNS0XAAN9TX&keywords=sun+glo+bulb&qid=1659626935&sprefix=sun+glo+bulb%2Caps%2C104&sr=8-43

franklazar26

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Re: Growing under LEDís
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2022, 09:28:09 PM »
I do believe itís my water. Iíve ran some pH tests and salts, turns out I have a very high chlorine content with a pH of around 8-8.4. So I truly believe this is my issue. Iíve now resorted to using a large 10 gallon jug, pH adjusting it to 6.5, and using some water conditioner that you use with fish tanks to evaporate salts and such. Will report how this works out here this winter.

franklazar26

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Re: Growing under LEDís
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2022, 09:31:07 PM »
The pigmentation concerns me much more than the light.

I note that some compounds are less available at certain temperatures.  What temperature are these plants kept at during the winter?  I suspect some combination of watering/fertilization/temperature is resulting in deficiencies as the plant grows without the nutrients to sustain the new tissue.

Foliar feeding of chelated iron - which can be as simple as the cooking water from greens - might help.

With my own plants, my only goal over the winter is to keep them alive - they get weak light from a window with indirect exposure, and that's all.  They don't grow, but they don't develop deficiency problems either.

They stay usually anywhere from 70F to 85F. Iíve foliar fed them a kelp spray, rich in iron in the past with no change. I believe itís to do with my pH and now noting, heavy salted water lol. Iíve had tests run and this is my conclusion. It would make sense for this to show after around a month or so, being pH and salt buildup.

 

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