Author Topic: Jaboticaba bonsai?  (Read 955 times)

Aiptasia904

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Jaboticaba bonsai?
« on: August 28, 2022, 10:04:33 AM »
I have a few Jabos in pots, including Sabara, Red Hybrid and Esalq red. I would like to learn more about keeping Jaboticabas as bonsai, specifically when to prune them back (time of year) and do some root trimming and or up potting. I've seen some 30-40 year examples of Jaboticabas as bonsai and frankly they're stunning. I've tried searching the web for more information on it but information is scarce and hard to find.

Does anybody have experience with bonsai'd tropicals or have any books or information leads on where to learn more?

brian

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Re: Jaboticaba bonsai?
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2022, 10:30:42 AM »
I have started bonsai-ing to some degree.  Every time I repot, I prune the tree and literally saw off the bottom third or so of the rootball and plant it into a wider-but-shallower pot.   I have a 2year old habanero growing in a pie pan, and citrus and guavas in similarly proportioned containers (though larger, ~2ft diameter, 4" deep).   

I haven't done much with jaboticabas because I want to get them to fruiting stage, but I guess you could cut them back once they reach it and still make a rather small bonsai, and slowly flatten the rootball like I was suggesting above.  I don't know what time of year is optimal, I do it whenever they look unbalanced for their container.

The books I've read on bonsai seemed mainly focused on tree selection and aesthetic stuff like root flare and wiring the limbs to be curvy.  I don't feel like I got much out of them.  I use the same soil as I do for normal containers, and I'm not interested in plucking leaves for photo shoots.

The most non-obvious part of bonsai I learned is that typically a tree is initially grown out to much larger than its planned bonsai size, and then pruned severely and shaped from then on.   Cheating in a sense, but the end result seems the same in a much shorter time.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2022, 10:39:02 AM by brian »

roblack

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Re: Jaboticaba bonsai?
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2022, 01:10:28 PM »
Ive never bonsai'd any of my jabos, but have several bonsais going for over 2 decades. Jabo is a good candidate due to beauty, shallow root system, and slow growth.

Trimming the tap root and root ball without killing it is the idea.

In a small pot, dries out quick, so ample water and misting would be key, especially after pruning roots.

While people will bring their trees indoors, best not to keep them indoors for too long. Happy healthy trees on display indoors are only visiting.


Aiptasia904

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Re: Jaboticaba bonsai?
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2022, 01:32:47 PM »
I have started bonsai-ing to some degree.  Every time I repot, I prune the tree and literally saw off the bottom third or so of the rootball and plant it into a wider-but-shallower pot.   I have a 2year old habanero growing in a pie pan, and citrus and guavas in similarly proportioned containers (though larger, ~2ft diameter, 4" deep).   

I haven't done much with jaboticabas because I want to get them to fruiting stage, but I guess you could cut them back once they reach it and still make a rather small bonsai, and slowly flatten the rootball like I was suggesting above.  I don't know what time of year is optimal, I do it whenever they look unbalanced for their container.

The books I've read on bonsai seemed mainly focused on tree selection and aesthetic stuff like root flare and wiring the limbs to be curvy.  I don't feel like I got much out of them.  I use the same soil as I do for normal containers, and I'm not interested in plucking leaves for photo shoots.

The most non-obvious part of bonsai I learned is that typically a tree is initially grown out to much larger than its planned bonsai size, and then pruned severely and shaped from then on.   Cheating in a sense, but the end result seems the same in a much shorter time.

I'm thinking about pruning them back and trimming the roots about 1/3 on a Sabara. Basically clearing out any crossing and sucker branches, aesthetically trimming them into a more 2D shape from the front instead of as a bush. I'm not concerned with doing anything tricky with the roots other than making sure they don't get overly root bound. A buddy of mine owns a nursery and has a theory that Jaboticabas that get root constricted will fruit and flower a lot sooner than trees in the ground, which is fine. The goal is to keep them in medium sized bonsai pots which is what I have them in now, about 12" deep and wide 5 gallon pots. I'm thinking winter in North Florida or early spring would be the ideal time to re-pot and prune them but i'd like more opinions on that.

Ive never bonsai'd any of my jabos, but have several bonsais going for over 2 decades. Jabo is a good candidate due to beauty, shallow root system, and slow growth.

Trimming the tap root and root ball without killing it is the idea.

In a small pot, dries out quick, so ample water and misting would be key, especially after pruning roots.

While people will bring their trees indoors, best not to keep them indoors for too long. Happy healthy trees on display indoors are only visiting.

The goal is to keep them potted on my back deck year round pretty much. It's a north-eastern facing deck which means there are some areas that get good sun and some areas that get total shade. Right now I have each potted Jaboticaba in part sun where they get some direct sun in the morning and shade and dappled sunlight through our adjacent oak trees in the afternoons. They're new-to-me this past spring and each one has doubled in size from new growth if not tripled. They appear to be very happy and healthy looking little bushes at the moment and I think they'd be great bonsai candidates.

roblack

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Re: Jaboticaba bonsai?
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2022, 01:39:07 PM »
Sounds like you are on the right track!

Would love to see some pics; now, and as you progress.

Aiptasia904

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Re: Jaboticaba bonsai?
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2022, 07:30:24 AM »
Sounds like you are on the right track!

Would love to see some pics; now, and as you progress.

I can make that happen later this morning. :)

Aiptasia904

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Re: Jaboticaba bonsai?
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2022, 01:39:55 PM »
Sounds like you are on the right track!

Would love to see some pics; now, and as you progress.

I did a read up on another pruning recommendation on Jaboticaba bonsai. They recommended re-potting in early spring every two years so I might just wait before up potting mine. Here's a few pics.

Sabara


Red Hybrids


Red Hybrid next to pepper plants


Three Month old rooting cuttings
« Last Edit: August 29, 2022, 01:44:47 PM by Aiptasia904 »

brian

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Re: Jaboticaba bonsai?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2022, 03:30:52 PM »
looks very nice, I think you are on the right track

socalbalcony2

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Re: Jaboticaba bonsai?
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2022, 03:48:25 PM »
I enjoy the videos Carlos does - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xses4W24vuQ (lots of nice examples here)

another one - pruning etc, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3lZB25kEL0
another one, updates - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQXKqz0_ARU

He does bonsais of many Brazilian fruit trees, many of them fruiting/flowering as bonsai too. You can use youtube caption auto-translate to better understand what is going on.

I have been reading about bonsai for sometime now and have experimented around w/it. The main thing I'd say is that if you want your tree to fruit without waiting 30 years you want it to be at maturity before you begin the bonsai process. For pre bonsai specimen you don't want to just throw them directly into bonsai pots, while your sabara is in a decently deeper bowl, I'd recommend growing out a red to maturity before beginning the bonsai process on it - that is, if you want fruits.

The info isn't too hard to find, you just need to make queries in Portuguese and then use translation tools.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2022, 03:55:21 PM by socalbalcony2 »

Aiptasia904

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Re: Jaboticaba bonsai?
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2022, 11:40:49 PM »
I enjoy the videos Carlos does - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xses4W24vuQ (lots of nice examples here)

another one - pruning etc, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3lZB25kEL0
another one, updates - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQXKqz0_ARU

He does bonsais of many Brazilian fruit trees, many of them fruiting/flowering as bonsai too. You can use youtube caption auto-translate to better understand what is going on.

I have been reading about bonsai for sometime now and have experimented around w/it. The main thing I'd say is that if you want your tree to fruit without waiting 30 years you want it to be at maturity before you begin the bonsai process. For pre bonsai specimen you don't want to just throw them directly into bonsai pots, while your sabara is in a decently deeper bowl, I'd recommend growing out a red to maturity before beginning the bonsai process on it - that is, if you want fruits.

The info isn't too hard to find, you just need to make queries in Portuguese and then use translation tools.

Wow. I watched the videos and bookmarked his youtube channel. Great information on working with both mature jaboticaba bonsai trees and pre-bonsai. Mine are all definitely in the pre-bonsai stage. I would say I have about two years growth on both the Sabara and the red hybrids and I have a few newer saplings (esalq red) and some others to work with.

It's interesting that he's using what looks like an organic acadama soil mixture. I've used mineral only acadama on some of my rare cactus plants but his mix looks like what you'd find in a standard bonsai acadama mix with organics. Right now mine are in black gold organic potting mix but i'll switch them over to a similar mix to what he's using when I re-pot them.

I'm going to go ahead and let them go another season in their current pots. I think two years in-between re-potting should be sufficient. It's good to know that he's confirmed my thoughts on when to prune them back (early spring) and the methods he's using to prune them are what I have in mind, which is to trim off the older leaves and any crossing branches.. His radical pruning of the older trees was both fascinating to watch and a bit cringe because I know what a tree that size would cost me here in the USA. He just takes a $500 tree and chops it to practically knobs of nothing, grinds down the nubs of his branch cutting with a dremel tool and the trees rebound without any problem whatsoever.

As to fruiting ones vs. non-fruiting, yes I would like it to fruit so I guess I won't be touching the roots until it's matured in each instance. I have an unconfirmed theory though that the more root restricted/root bound the jaboticabas get, the faster they will fruit. I know the red hybrids will begin to flower and fruit at 3-4 years maturity and I know it takes eight to twelve years for the Sabara, but perhaps having it in the restricted containers will encourage the Sabara to flower and fruit earlier. Or maybe not. I guess i'll find out in due time.

This is great info. Thanks for posting the links Socalbalcony2. :)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2022, 11:46:47 PM by Aiptasia904 »

Aiptasia904

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Re: Jaboticaba bonsai?
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2022, 11:48:55 PM »
I enjoy the videos Carlos does - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xses4W24vuQ (lots of nice examples here)

another one - pruning etc, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3lZB25kEL0
another one, updates - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQXKqz0_ARU

He does bonsais of many Brazilian fruit trees, many of them fruiting/flowering as bonsai too. You can use youtube caption auto-translate to better understand what is going on.

I have been reading about bonsai for sometime now and have experimented around w/it. The main thing I'd say is that if you want your tree to fruit without waiting 30 years you want it to be at maturity before you begin the bonsai process. For pre bonsai specimen you don't want to just throw them directly into bonsai pots, while your sabara is in a decently deeper bowl, I'd recommend growing out a red to maturity before beginning the bonsai process on it - that is, if you want fruits.

The info isn't too hard to find, you just need to make queries in Portuguese and then use translation tools.

Wow. I watched the videos and bookmarked his youtube channel. Great information on working with both mature jaboticaba bonsai trees and pre-bonsai. Mine are all definitely in the pre-bonsai stage. I would say I have about two years growth on both the Sabara and the red hybrids and I have a few newer saplings (esalq red) and some others to work with.

It's interesting that he's using what looks like an organic acadama soil mixture. I've used mineral only acadama on some of my rare cactus plants but his mix looks like what you'd find in a standard bonsai acadama mix with organics. Right now mine are in black gold organic potting mix but i'll switch them over to a similar mix to what he's using when I re-pot them.

I'm going to go ahead and let them go another season in their current pots. I think two years in-between re-potting should be sufficient. It's good to know that he's confirmed my thoughts on when to prune them back (early spring) and the methods he's using to prune them are what I have in mind, which is to trim off the older leaves and any crossing branches.. His radical pruning of the older trees was both fascinating to watch and a bit cringe because I know what a tree that size would cost me here in the USA. He just takes a $500 tree and assertively chops it to practically knobs, grinds down the nubs of his branch cutting with a dremel tool, slaps a little tree wound salve on the cuts and the trees rebound without any problem whatsoever.

As to fruiting ones vs. non-fruiting, yes I would like it to fruit so I guess I won't be touching the roots until it's matured in each instance. I have an unconfirmed theory though that the more root restricted/root bound the jaboticabas get, the faster they will fruit. I know the red hybrids will begin to flower and fruit at 3-4 years maturity and I know it takes eight to twelve years for the Sabara, but perhaps having it in the restricted containers will encourage the Sabara to flower and fruit earlier. Or maybe not. I guess i'll find out in due time.

This is great info. Thanks for posting the links Socalbalcony2. :)

roblack

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Re: Jaboticaba bonsai?
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2022, 11:16:38 AM »
The Sabara already has a pretty shape to it. Going to be super nice.


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Re: Jaboticaba bonsai?
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2024, 07:56:14 AM »
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