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Messages - Squam256

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My orange sherbet over the last two seasons has had partial bloom. Does orange essence bloom more consistently than OS?

Not really from what we’ve seen.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2023 Mango Season
« on: March 29, 2023, 10:14:52 AM »
Anyone have a forecast from what they're seeing now as to the peak of the season this year? I am considering a trip out to FL again, was a blast last year but was at the tail end. Don't want to miss it this year if it's truly as epic as y'all are saying.

Mid-June in West Palm Beach.

We actually look to have a pretty good Sweet Tart crop this year. Most of them did not fruit well in 2022.

I currently have 5 grades for ease of flowering for mango in south Florida:. A few examples provided with each category. Some are disputable as to which group they belong but this is a rough projection based on recent past behavior. Stem age plays a major role as well, and I can’t emphasize enough that you want to get your pruning done before the end of August here to avoid late flushes of growth, and to avoid over feeding the trees to lessen the likelihood of that as well.

Grade 1/Very Easy : These are precocious, and frequently blooming before the New Year regardless of what kind of weather we see. Rosigold, Edward, Dwarf Hawaiian, Rosa

/Grade 2/Easy : these can achieve decent blooms off less than a week below 60F depending on the age of their stems. A solid week will make most of them achieve majority blooms.
Angie, Pickering, Ah Ping, Jean Ellen, Ice Cream, Super Julie

Grade 3/ Medium some bloom after a week or less but not majority of canopy depending on stem age. 10 days with lows below 60F is typically enough to get a majority bloom.
Haden, Bailey’s Marvel, Glenn, most Thai mangos and most old Florida varieties

Grade 4/ Difficult Will flower inconsistently unless they receive multi-week cold fronts. Usually very unprecocious. Sweet Tart, Alphonso, Mulgoba, Peach Cobbler, Bombay

Grade 5/ Extremely Difficult/ Near Impossible These likely require 2+ weeks *untinterupted* lows in the 50s/40s plus optimal stem age and 6+ years of total tree maturity to achieve full blooms here(growth flush needs to be hardened off before end of August and cold front must be January or later). In reality, Most winters here they’ll either fail to bloom completely or just throw a couple panicles here or there. Sindhri, Dasheri, Gilas, Anything from northern India or Pakistan.

Groups 3 and 4 are the problem for people in Palm Beach, Broward, and Miami-Dade, and maybe even the Treasure Coast now too. Due to a lot of trees in the nursery trade being in those categories.

On the other hand, trees in group 4 and 5 should do well in California and some group 4 maybe central /West Florida
Which grade would Sonpari fall into. Contemplating on ordering some budwood to graft onto my two remaining warm winter bloom hesitant trees 🙂
I know two seasons doesn't make a trend but on the northwest side of those trees they seem to be dormant and hesitant to Bloom so to hedge my bet I may graft a few scions of a different variety but I'm very glad that John51 started this thread. His timing is impeccable

I would probably put Sonpari in group 3.

We are seeing some small but significant drought stress-induced bloom right now on some varieties which is great to see. Did a little video about it today with Paul Nison and showed some of them but not all. Should mean a redux for a few types later in the season. A couple like Kook Lom Krong and Saigon could see most of their crops coming from drought stress bloom which is pretty cool.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2023 Mango Season
« on: March 15, 2023, 10:08:35 PM »
Found two ripe Carries today and ate one of them.

.... and???

Was it delicious??

Considering you hadnt seen rain in weeks I am assuming it was, but you have to tell.

Yes, way better than I was expecting for a March Carrie.

A good flavor change up from the Rosigolds and Edwards which have both been really good as well.

Also found a ripe O-15 today and have some Rosas and Dwarf Hawaiian that are pretty close.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2023 Mango Season
« on: March 15, 2023, 06:38:26 PM »
Found two ripe Carries today and ate one of them.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Illegal or Not?? Mango Scions
« on: March 03, 2023, 12:16:22 PM »
We do not produce grafted or seedling Coconut Cream trees, and don’t distribute the budwood either. There are nurseries in south Florida that do without license, however.

Dasheri, Gilas, Sey Pasala, Casturi 6-26, and Safeda Lucknow all totally failed to bloom. Not one panicle. Not surprised either.

From what I remember, “Candy Corn” was one of the random seedlings growing along the perimeter path at the nursery (not a number from Gary’s breeding project). If it’s the mango I’m thinking of, it had an Indochinese hybrid type flavor and was good quality.

I’m very skeptical of reports on its eating quality that were based on fruit that was being harvested way too green. This is reminiscent of when people were asking what the big deal was about some of the program hybrids that were regularly being picked weeks before they should have been.

Ours is Flowering/setting fruit now so we’ll see if we get anything from it this cycle and give it a fair eval.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Creme Brulee Mango
« on: February 28, 2023, 11:00:42 PM »
How do you think it compares to something like White Pirie?
For the smaller Indian/west indian flavored mango White Pirie was probably my favorite (haven't tried Creme Brulee)

Creme Brûlée is distinctive from White Piri, which is itself superb. White Piri, similar to Imam Passand, Jehangir and Ice Cream has an Anise  component to its flavor that either isn’t present or isn’t as strong in the other Bombay/Jakarta descendants. I almost feel we need a sub-group for these like we did for classic mangos with the classic-acidic subgroup.

A closer comparison for Creme Brulee might be something like Phoenix, Giselle, one of those types I suppose. Another that comes to mind that could be similar is Mahmoud Vikarabad. I should probably keep some of them this year to give a more proper description and maybe do some direct comparisons.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Creme Brulee Mango
« on: February 28, 2023, 09:55:56 AM »
We have 3 Crème Brûlée trees.

The largest is a topwork and has been fruiting for a while.

Two of them are grafted to experimental dwarfing rootstock that has worked “too well”. One of the 2 is an an unhealthy runt that I really should remove. The other has done better and has fruited a couple times.

The topwork has been a healthy low-to-moderate vigor tree but isn’t in the best position for growth. It had previously been an Eldon tree, but when bacterial black spot proved to be too much of a problem for it, I topworked it into Creme Brûlée around 2016. Some of The neighboring trees were vigorous growers (a Cac and an ST Maui)  and there’s also a shade house near to its south.

It flowers pretty easily here. Like some of the other Edward progeny it can have issues with producing disproportionate male flowers but it always sets some fruit. The fruit stay green until mature and then turn dull yellow when they ripen here. In interior areas I imagine they would probably stay green most of the time. It doesn’t get bacterial spot at all, but I could see anthracnose being a problem if conditions are humid enough. It’s flowering now so maybe after it’s done setting it’s crop I can remember to take a picture.

As far as ripening is concerned, we had some issues the first couple crops with softnose/uneven ripening which made me reluctant to sell the fruit to people, but that seems to have gone away the last several years and we’ve sold some of the fruit in recent years with strong positive reports. Probably just needs to be harvested mature green.

Back When I collected the budwood I remember Gary Zill telling me that the original tree had only fruited like 2 times in 14 years or something . But I think It may have fruited more frequently since that time so they finally produced some trees for the public.

The trees have been available long enough that I would have expected some reports from consumers by now, but this is true of some of the other Zill varieties that you hear almost nothing about from backyarders/small growers.

It would be nice to see some feedback because I regard Creme Brûlée as one of the finest flavored members of the Indian/West Indian group. Perhaps even the best of it.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Still no flies or bees
« on: February 25, 2023, 08:08:42 PM »
We’re seeing plenty of pollinators in West Palm

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2023 Mango Season
« on: February 14, 2023, 12:04:42 PM »
My Pickering gave us 90 delicious mangoes last summer.  This season, however, looks like a bust.  Mid-February and one pannicle has popped up while the rest of the tree appears dormant.  :(  Why??   :'(

Most of our Pickering trees have fairly complete blooms but there are a couple that have weak partial blooms.

As far as the why, you can blame the weak winter. Warm winters like this reduce the likelihood of trees flowering, particularly if their stem tips haven’t had a lot of time to mature. This isn’t uncommon with trees that had large crops the prior year and flushed growth later in the year consequently.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Pace vs Excalibur Mamey
« on: February 09, 2023, 03:18:11 PM »
Thanks Squam

I was expecting it to be darker than that. From memory people describe it as deep red or blood red.

Interestingly there was a person on the Houz forum named Lisa (GCmastiffs) who uploaded a photo of mamey sapote that had extremely red pulp. She purchased it from Excalibur, lost the tag, and was then told that she had Pantin. But Pantin does not have red pulp. So I thought she had Excalibur, but the fruit shape doesn't seem narrow enough for that cultivar.

Yes that looks like it. After looking again My Lorito pic probably doesn’t do justice to the Excalibur. It’s a brighter red color.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Pace vs Excalibur Mamey
« on: February 08, 2023, 04:16:26 PM »
Would someone with Excalibur mamey sapote be so kind as to upload a photo of a cross-sectioned fruit? Doesn't seem to be a single photo viewable anywhere.

This is what the fruit looks like whole:

I don’t have a photo of what it looks like cut open, but this photo of a Lorito fruit is representative of the color that I remember, perhaps just a slightly brighter shade if we were to split hairs:

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2023 Mango Season
« on: February 03, 2023, 09:14:52 PM »
In south Florida Not everything is going to flower off what we got, so don’t think that everything is blooming based on the reports you’re reading. It’s been an extremely warm winter outside what we got a couple weeks ago. So far some prominent hold outs , aside from the usual suspects (Sindhri, Dasheri, Gilas, Sey Pasala) are Van Dyke, Valencia Pride, Various Mangifera species, and several others.

If your tree doesn’t push panicles within the next week or so, there is still time for another cold front, but this month is likely going to finish way above average.

Here’s a pic of one of the Carries a couple seasons ago:

We have 11 Carrie trees and going back a number of years they’ve always been very productive until a down year in 2022 due to choppy flowering.

Looks like we’re about to get a strong bloom from them this cycle so I would expect a pretty good rebound year from them.

In humid areas they are prone to modern aggressive strains of anthracnose. Beyond that production issues usually are due to too many male flowers from some trees certain years. Angie , on the other hand, never has that problem.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Little Gem Mango
« on: January 23, 2023, 12:12:18 AM »
Since this thread contains most of the info about this cultivar on these boards, I thought I'd ask the question here.

Anyone ever checked to see if the seed is mono or poly?

They’re monoembryonic and make nice rootstock.

I’m extremely skeptical that any significant cold tolerance will be achieved from spraying Brassinolide on mangos.

Bump for tonight. Will be doing a Q&A after the presentation.

Can you make this like one of those Fathom Events? Instead of showing Opera at the movie theaters, we could stream your event?

JK, I hate my state

Not familiar with Fathom.
Anytime I do a paid talk for a group or club I leave it up to them as far as sharing the content. Since they obviously want to incentivize people to join/attend their meetings.

But the stuff I do with Fruitful Trees and Paul Nison gets posted on YouTube. We’ll probably do at least one Q&A stream about mangos before the season and I’ll try to remember post about it beforehand on here.

How vigorous is Lil Gem?

Moderate-to-Low vigor, dense spreading canopy . The growth habit is Comparable to something like Carrie.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: MBSS resistant Mangos
« on: January 11, 2023, 11:25:08 PM »
Besides Keitt and Lemon Zest, other highly susceptible varieties include:

Golden Queen/ Kiew Yai
East Indian
Ice Cream
Super Julie
Ah Ping
Hindi Bessenara/Vellai Colomban

And others

I’ll be giving a free public presentation at the Palm Beach RFC for anyone here in south Florida interested in attending. The topic is “Mango Culture in Palm Beach County 2023”. Will be discussing current information and trends in mangos here in PB county and steps home growers can take to maximize their yields.

531 N. Military Trail, West Palm Beach, Florida

Date: Friday, January 13, 2023

Time: 7:00pm

Not going to be streamed online as far as I know.

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