The Tropical Fruit Forum
Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: simon_grow on February 12, 2021, 02:55:29 PM
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So I’ve been reading through the various Surinam Cherry (Eugenia Uniflora) posts and wanted to get the most updated information regarding the best tasting Surinam Cherry found so far. It would be great to see pictures of your favorite variety and why you like that particular variety. It would also be great to hear a detailed flavor description.
I’ve only tasted about 5-10 different varieties of Surinam Cherries and I wasn’t in love with them before so I didn’t keep track of their names. The only named ones I can recall are Vermillion, Jim/Mark Thick leaf and, Zill Dark and my Zill Dark Seedling #1.
The only variety I’ve recently eaten is a special Surinam Cherry that was purchased by Jim Neitzel from Walter Anderson Nursery some 20+ years ago. It was labeled “Eugenia Smithii”.
Mark Lee got this special plant from Jim and shared a few cutting of it with me a few years ago. I grafted the scions onto a seedling and it has given me fruit for the last two years.
If Mark Lee didn’t save this variety, it would probably be lost already. What makes this variety so special is that the leaves are very large and extremely thick. The leaves feel twice as thick as regular Surinam Cherries. This variety makes extra large fruit that is very dark, almost completely black that is sweet and has very little Diesel/turpentine taste, if you know what I mean.
My grafted plant was growing in a 5 gallon container and I just up potted it a few days ago. I’m surprised how big the fruit got considering it is in a relatively small pot and I didn’t water much. This fruit is probably especially big because there are only a few fruit on the tree at that time.
This small tree consistently produces fruit Quarter sized and the larger fruit are Half dollar size or slightly larger. This particular fruit had a Brix of 14.3% and I’m sure it can get sweeter with age and if planted in the ground.
(https://i.postimg.cc/fSjzmyqc/E2-B4-F82-E-6968-403-B-829-E-1-ECC99280877.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fSjzmyqc)
Simon
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Here’s a picture of the Jim/Mark thick leaf fruit next to a quarter and half dollar
(https://i.postimg.cc/fVHrksCJ/EDC78-F7-B-A6-A8-4522-B889-BE741-D105747.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fVHrksCJ)
Another picture but this time, the fruit is on top of the half dollar. You can see the fruit is slightly larger than the half dollar. You can just barely see the edge of the half dollar if you zoom in on the picture
(https://i.postimg.cc/dZvB4N6b/A9-A2000-C-47-E8-419-F-936-A-1-B7-D38233-D21.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dZvB4N6b)
Sorry I can’t give a more detailed flavor description, it was just sweet with a nice acid balance. It was very juicy and had a hint of blackberry to it. This large fruit had a double seed.
Simon
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Side shot
(https://i.postimg.cc/1gX5N9ZT/FC901479-2-E0-E-47-A7-B2-C2-EA02-F651780-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1gX5N9ZT)
Brix
(https://i.postimg.cc/mhCZ9X0b/08-CFE9-BC-7-BD9-4-D51-A8-FB-1-B59-EEC243-DC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mhCZ9X0b)
I’m not saying this is the best tasting variety I’ve had so far because I haven’t done a side by side comparison to other varieties but this variety is really excellent because of the taste, size and productivity. It is also very different than all other Surinam Cherries I’ve had because of the extremely thick and larger leaves.
I’m still trying to figure out where “ Eugenia Smithii” came from and if this is or is not a hybrid with done other Eugenia, if that’s even possible.
When something can’t be explained, I’m going to go with the easiest and most probable guess that this is just a special selection of Eugenia Uniflora that just happens to have larger and thicker leaves.
With so many people growing out Surinam Cherry seedlings, I’d be surprised if no one else has discovered another seedling selection with these thick and large leaves.
Simon
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Here’s more information on the Jim/Mark thick leaf
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=28488.msg323276#msg323276 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=28488.msg323276#msg323276)
And other Surinam Cherries
Pfaff Fantastic
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14816.25 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=14816.25)
Gazillion
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=41755.msg411126#msg411126 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=41755.msg411126#msg411126)
Lolita
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=26595.msg317179#msg317179 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=26595.msg317179#msg317179)
Blackstar
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=28089.msg319404#msg319404 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=28089.msg319404#msg319404)
Florida Giant Purple
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=4175.msg57608#msg57608 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=4175.msg57608#msg57608)
Black Beauty
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=4011.msg110131#msg110131 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=4011.msg110131#msg110131)
Simon
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Here is my Zill Dark Seedling #1, it’s another dark skinned variety and this is the first fruit from this plant. It’s about the size of a quarter with a sweet taste. Very slight resin notes from my memory. This fruit was picked about a month ago and I’m trying to remember the taste profile but nothing in particular comes to mind. This fruit has a Brix of 16%. It’s currently in a 5 gallon pot and needs to be up potted.
The sibling to this tree is also flowering for the first time.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dL2qHwXq/092556-F9-2-E41-4377-B15-A-82-B3-B2117963.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dL2qHwXq)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fk0WdxfS/F09-A3997-1-A00-4-B31-A329-C26-A6-ADA21-B6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fk0WdxfS)
(https://i.postimg.cc/D4s2KTwP/F5-CD0-E46-E26-F-4-D8-A-9-EB3-7111-A706-F05-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/D4s2KTwP)
Simon
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Vermillion is one of the best Red colored Surinam Cherries I have eaten. The fruit is very large, sweet, juicy and has a medium resinous flavor that I once hated but now enjoy. The resinous flavor of Surinam Cherries reminds me a lot of the strong resinous taste of specific Indian mangos such as Alphonso and Kesar. It is a bit like Diesel fuel or pine sol which sounds weird and disgusting but when it’s combined with the sugar acid balance of the fruit, it gives the fruit some character.
Leo Manuel has a large and absolutely beautiful Vermillion Surinam Cherry in his backyard that is a perfect tree shape which is loaded with fruit almost year round. You will never find Surinam Cherries at the Supermarket because of the fruits delicate nature so you’ll have to grow your own if you want to enjoy the fruit, or have friends that like to share.
Scroll through this thread to see pictures of Leo’s beautiful Vermillion Surinam Cherry tree.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.50 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3188.50)
I will grab some Vermilion fruit next time I visit Leo and get a Brix reading.
I would like to see which Surinam Cherry variety has the highest Brix.
Simon
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I should get a refractometer, I have some seedlings that were grown from a guy who got the seeds from a Florida professor after they were done doing breeding research(?).. I forgot the full story, the fruits are kind of purple I think. No pics atm but I'll get some soon..
As another socal person, any tips on surinams? What fertilizers do you use for your potted plants/how often? They are one of my favorite fruits, most of mine have lost their foliage due to harsh santa ana winds, and another one I have barely has any foliage but has been flowering since November, its not setting any fruit, perhaps due to lack of foliage/temps down here? 60 during the day, 45 at night..
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Socalbalcony, I neglect most my trees and Surinam Cherries are one of the easiest plants to grow. They seem to thrive on neglect. Since they grow so easily, my best advice is to up pot as soon as they have outgrown their pot.
I use a 50/50 mixture of Foxfarm ocean Forest and Happy Frog potting soil. I feed with organic 0-10-10 when the trees are blooming or holding fruit.
Simon
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I have a few seedlings of what the eBay seller claimed was the 'Black Star' variety. The fruits are dark red but not so much that they look black and the gasoline flavor is constantly there and simply too much for me to enjoy the fruit which would otherwise be excellent.
I've heard that Cherry of the Rio Grande and Savanah Cherry don't have this gasoline flavor at all. Can someone confirm this?
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Socalbalcony, I neglect most my trees and Surinam Cherries are one of the easiest plants to grow. They seem to thrive on neglect. Since they grow so easily, my best advice is to up pot as soon as they have outgrown their pot.
I use a 50/50 mixture of Foxfarm ocean Forest and Happy Frog potting soil. I feed with organic 0-10-10 when the trees are blooming or holding fruit.
Simon
Hi Simon, thanks for the response. I purchased this one as a 5gal early december (roots coming out of the bottom..) and it had two fruits left on it , moved it to a 10gal grow bag, gave it some hollytone, and mid January up until now it has been blooming but not setting any fruits (see the pictures). As you can see it also doesn't have much foliage left on it. Should I try a 0-10-10? Any particular fertilizer/brands?
(https://i.postimg.cc/t1Z2rMdk/10gal.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t1Z2rMdk)
(https://i.postimg.cc/qtPQWxjT/5gal.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qtPQWxjT)
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Simon, my favorites are 'Chamba'
Also have had excellent Cherry of the Rio Grande' & Vermillion I do have a graft of Zill's dark but hasn't fruited yet! We're cooler than the L.a. basin especially me because mi'm maybe two miles as crow fly's from Ocean. Have some other seedlings some dark such as Westree 396 but has to be dark black before sweet. I enjoy them very much if picked ripe I don't notice this diesel flavor most folks talk about. Also have Lolita seedling and Louver there is a tree @ Orange County Fair grounds when CRFG has demo-garden by Barn.
I use the tickle test when picking them underneath fruit if ripe will fall in your hand.
I've heard about Mark Lee's var. from Jim N. will have to get that one too!
great post! ;)
Also have had excellent Cherry of the Rio Grande in last two year's with this year two crops the last one still has small fruit hanging.
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Simon, my favorites are 'Chamb
Also have had excellent Cherry of the Rio Grandea' & Vermillion I do have a graft of Zill's dark but hasn't fruited yet! We're cooler than the L.a. basin especially me because mi'm maybe two miles as crow fly's from Ocean. Have some other seedlings some dark such as Westree 396 but has to be dark black before sweet. I enjoy them very much if picked ripe I don't notice this diesel flavor most folks talk about. Also have Lolita seedling and Louver there is a tree @ Orange County Fair grounds when CRFG has demo-garden by Barn.
I use the tickle test when picking them underneath fruit if ripe will fall in your hand.
I've heard about Mark Lee's var. from Jim N. will have to get that one too!
great post! ;)
Also have had excellent Cherry of the Rio Grande in last two year's with this year two crops the last one still has small fruit hanging.
There is a tree on the OC fairgrounds by the barn?
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The red fruiting variety is used all over in my area as a hedge in the landscape. Ive found most to be piney and tart but sometimes you’ll find a red thats sweeter. The dark fruiting variety has provided me the best tasting so far.
I purchased a small seedling from fruitscapes few years back. It turned out to be dark fruiting and excellent in flavor. It completely covers itself in blooms in full sun.
(https://i.postimg.cc/McyPMpn0/110-D0-DF9-E78-D-41-C3-93-AF-A3-E15414-D46-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/McyPMpn0)
(https://i.postimg.cc/RNyXgHfQ/EDB6-D2-B6-3-E0-B-4-D50-BAC5-F5-E22142-DD2-F.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RNyXgHfQ)
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Im excited for my “Crimson Tide” Seedling as I see its just pushed it first blooms.
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Here's a couple of Black Star and Crimson Tide photos:
(https://i.postimg.cc/dDVB6cg8/Crimson-Tide-2020-20.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dDVB6cg8)
(https://i.postimg.cc/LhQV00MG/Surimame-Duo.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LhQV00MG)
Kevin
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Here's a couple of Black Star and Crimson Tide photos:
(https://i.postimg.cc/dDVB6cg8/Crimson-Tide-2020-20.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dDVB6cg8)
(https://i.postimg.cc/LhQV00MG/Surimame-Duo.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LhQV00MG)
Kevin
I've been waiting for you to post on this thread. After all, how can the guy whose avatar is a picture of a Suriname Cherry not have an opinion on this?
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The Suriname Cherries was my gateway drug into the tropical fruit world... the addiction continues!
The "Crimson Tide" selection is my hands down favorite of what I've tasted. Very sweet with a mandarine/tangerine flavor.
I wish I were better at grafting Surinames... because I would really like to propagate this selection.
I've managed 3 so far... but fumbled many more!
Same with "Black Star".
I've managed to successfully graft a few... but a lot more failures.
I've got plenty of rootstock... so I will continue trying once the weather warms up.
Kevin
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Is there a reason why more people don't just air layer instead of graft?
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I will try air layering this spring.
Kevin
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Good luck! Definitely post results.. I know it can be done, I have a surinam bonsai that is from airlayer (I see no reason to lie about this from the artist's perspective). They told me in warm/humid places like Florida (and perhaps where you are, Kevin) it occurs with ease..
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Last fall I order a large quantity of these plastic air layering balls on ebay:
(https://i.postimg.cc/bDPWhMt9/Air-Layering-Balls.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDPWhMt9)
Thought I'd give them a try...
Kevin
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I'm an avid pitanga collector and have a ton, perhaps the biggest part of my collection. I have a few ten foot tall trees that were terribly shaped / cared for and are soooo lanky. I am considering just lopping them off at 4' and seeing what happens. They produce ok.
One red 10' tree that is ok, and the other is black star that is the sweetest, but does not produce well. The black star is so sweet that it kind of lacks character, but if sweetness is your thing, that's the one.
I have a grafted vermillion from Papaya tree that produces an insane amount of fruit. Some days there would be 20 ready to eat and the tree is only about 3' tall. I plan to graft this type onto my seedlings. It is sweet, no diesel notes, and can go purple/black if you leave them long enough and the birds don't find them. It is just slightly more tart than the black star.
Then the list of other trees I've bought or propagated ranges from the big Obera types from Marcos in Argentina (the leaf shape is very unique and long / pointy) and they are more aesthetic vegetatively, to some much larger seedlings that I bought from Exotica in SD. They are between 2' - 6' tall. Lolita, Chamba, and vermillion. I heavily pruned them before winter and hope they all produce this year. They were just big bushes before.
Cannot wait for Spring!
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How’s everyone’s Surinam Cherries doing? I continue to harvest a few fruits here and there from Jim/Marks thick leaf Surinam. It’s still one of the best Surinam Cherries I’ve tasted but I’ve only tasted a handful of varieties. The tree fruits consistently and the fruit are large and sweet with an excellent Surinam cherry flavor with perfect sugar acid balance. I always tickle or palm the fruit and if it falls off, it’s ripe.
I’m loving this fruit more and more but my tree has a very poor shape so I will graft it to a seedling and also put on an air layer.
It would be great if other members could take size measurements of their fruits, give a description and also give a Brix reading if possible.
I’m on the hunt for varieties that are large, productive, sweet and have excellent taste. So far, Jim/Marks thick leaf is winning this race.
Simon
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This year I really changed up my fertilization regimen on my surinams which didn't produce much (other than my grafted vermillion which was INCREDIBLE for production and quality) and what I am finding really interesting is that the leaf thickness is substantially improved by switching to high P fertilizers. Last year the leaves were very thin and delicate when using lots of N, but I also feel that's why they didn't produce - nutrients I used were all high N slow release.
My trees all fully defoliate in the winter so they are still building out a new coat of leaves, but are doing so rapidly now. Here in 9b they miss the first fruiting period (it flowers when there's still risk of frost and there are no leaves to protect the delicate flowers). I'm really wanting to extend my greenhouse and pack all of them inside it for the winter so this doesn't happen next year.
My grafted vermillion does not produce large fruit, but it makes a ton of them that are sweet but not overwhelmingly so. My black star produces noticeably larger and sweeter fruits, but hardly holds onto any of them or flowers much at all. I've been grafting a lot of the vermillion onto my other plants because it's so much better for production and also added several Zill's grafts this year but have not had any fruit from them. Of note, the Zill's leaves are super thick. My suspicion is that leaf thickness may have something to do with fruit quality and size?
This was an average day in late October. I was getting 10-20 fruit a day from just one 4' plant that's pretty scraggly. I look forward to this year when it builds a better canopy - I up potted from 15 gallon to 25 gallon.
(https://i.postimg.cc/SXkxsrR4/IMG-5392.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXkxsrR4)
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How’s everyone’s Surinam Cherries doing? I continue to harvest a few fruits here and there from Jim/Marks thick leaf Surinam. It’s still one of the best Surinam Cherries I’ve tasted but I’ve only tasted a handful of varieties. The tree fruits consistently and the fruit are large and sweet with an excellent Surinam cherry flavor with perfect sugar acid balance. I always tickle or palm the fruit and if it falls off, it’s ripe.
I’m loving this fruit more and more but my tree has a very poor shape so I will graft it to a seedling and also put on an air layer.
It would be great if other members could take size measurements of their fruits, give a description and also give a Brix reading if possible.
I’m on the hunt for varieties that are large, productive, sweet and have excellent taste. So far, Jim/Marks thick leaf is winning this race.
Simon
Glad to see the thread being kept alive, I can't do brix but I'll try taking size measurements..
I have a grafted blackstar, 'Hawaiian' blackstar that I just forced into flowering, four other different seedlings that will be fruiting first time this year - one of which has something like 100 fruits set its first time.. two others that are in shock from being bare rooted about 2 months ago. Largest fruit so far has been the typical blackstar but it doesn't look like it beats the thick-leaf.
The other day I tried fruit from a collector with the following trees: seth, westree 369, vermillion and "pb2" or pfx2 - I forgot, seth had the most complex flavor with low resin for me but very small fruits
I'd be curious if any members can comment on Nacha or 404 - http://fruitsandgardening.blogspot.com/2020/01/california-rare-fruit-growers-fruit.html (http://fruitsandgardening.blogspot.com/2020/01/california-rare-fruit-growers-fruit.html) - search for Eugenia Uniflora
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If anyone does do any air layering or roots cuttings, I'd like to try growing the high quality varieties here.
I have a friend with a big tree, but the quality of the fruit is lacking. Not sure what variety it is.
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If anyone does do any air layering or roots cuttings, I'd like to try growing the high quality varieties here.
I have a friend with a big tree, but the quality of the fruit is lacking. Not sure what variety it is.
I'm experimenting with rooting jaboticaba and pitomba cuttings which should be more challenging than pitanga.
Also, of note, the native name in Tupi (the brazilian native language) is pitanga* and I much prefer referring to it that way. Does anyone know how it became known as Surinam? Seems disingenuous.
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This year I really changed up my fertilization regimen on my surinams which didn't produce much (other than my grafted vermillion which was INCREDIBLE for production and quality) and what I am finding really interesting is that the leaf thickness is substantially improved by switching to high P fertilizers. Last year the leaves were very thin and delicate when using lots of N, but I also feel that's why they didn't produce - nutrients I used were all high N slow release.
My trees all fully defoliate in the winter so they are still building out a new coat of leaves, but are doing so rapidly now. Here in 9b they miss the first fruiting period (it flowers when there's still risk of frost and there are no leaves to protect the delicate flowers). I'm really wanting to extend my greenhouse and pack all of them inside it for the winter so this doesn't happen next year.
My grafted vermillion does not produce large fruit, but it makes a ton of them that are sweet but not overwhelmingly so. My black star produces noticeably larger and sweeter fruits, but hardly holds onto any of them or flowers much at all. I've been grafting a lot of the vermillion onto my other plants because it's so much better for production and also added several Zill's grafts this year but have not had any fruit from them. Of note, the Zill's leaves are super thick. My suspicion is that leaf thickness may have something to do with fruit quality and size?
This was an average day in late October. I was getting 10-20 fruit a day from just one 4' plant that's pretty scraggly. I look forward to this year when it builds a better canopy - I up potted from 15 gallon to 25 gallon.
(https://i.postimg.cc/SXkxsrR4/IMG-5392.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXkxsrR4)
K-Rimes, thanks for the update. Are you sure you have Vermillion and not a Vermillion seedling? I’ve eaten a lot of Vermilion fruit from Leo Manuel’s in ground tree and his fruit are quite large and very delicious. Vermillion is so far the best tasting Red fruit I’ve had.
Simon
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K-Rimes, thanks for the update. Are you sure you have Vermillion and not a Vermillion seedling? I’ve eaten a lot of Vermilion fruit from Leo Manuel’s in ground tree and his fruit are quite large and very delicious. Vermillion is so far the best tasting Red fruit I’ve had.
Simon
[/quote]
It has a pretty ugly graft union and was from Papaya Tree Nursery sold to me as grafted vermillion, so, one can assume? I think my nutrition was off last year and nonetheless it produced a lot of fruit, but lacked what it needed to get big. I also have found keeping the roots dry during flowering promotes fruit sets, but perhaps at the expense of overall fruit size.
I expected this to be true of all eugenia, but after experimenting this year is definitely not applicable to grumichama. The slightest bit of dry soil and the peduncle dries up. I am not getting fruit sets to hold on my pitangatuba wet or dry. CORG and calcycina seem to like the dry treatment.
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I bet your fruit will get bigger as it matures. Leo’s tree is really large so that’s probably why his fruit gets so big.
Here’s a couple pictures of Jim/Marks thick leaf.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8JjZVnF7/76-AD4183-18-AB-4965-8258-F9-C59-F5090-F4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8JjZVnF7)
(https://i.postimg.cc/dkp4Qmd4/DD3481-BE-59-EE-434-E-9-D57-FEAF128647-E4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/dkp4Qmd4)
(https://i.postimg.cc/18Q7NHdd/F0-D8-B531-FCB8-4-AB4-90-F9-8-CE169-E296-CA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/18Q7NHdd)
That’s a fifty cent piece in the picture.
Simon
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Great thread! I learned quite a bit reading it.
I'm new to the forum. I got some Zill Dark Pitanga scions from a forum member here and I grafted them onto a seedling Surinam Cherry I got from Exotica Nursery in Vista. It seems like the grafts have taken! Anyone growing the Zill Dark here in SoCal? I too am interested in the production, taste, etc.
Thanks
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Great thread! I learned quite a bit reading it.
I'm new to the forum. I got some Zill Dark Pitanga scions from a forum member here and I grafted them onto a seedling Surinam Cherry I got from Exotica Nursery in Vista. It seems like the grafts have taken! Anyone growing the Zill Dark here in SoCal? I too am interested in the production, taste, etc.
Thanks
I have Zill's grafted onto Exotica seedlings as well. I'd been holding out hope that they will produce naturally but got impatient and put some of my vermillion on, and tacked a few Zill's on. I think they may fruit next year (Zill's).
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If anyone does do any air layering or roots cuttings, I'd like to try growing the high quality varieties here.
I have a friend with a big tree, but the quality of the fruit is lacking. Not sure what variety it is.
I'm experimenting with rooting jaboticaba and pitomba cuttings which should be more challenging than pitanga.
Also, of note, the native name in Tupi (the brazilian native language) is pitgana and I much prefer referring to it that way. Does anyone know how it became known as Surinam? Seems disingenuous.
Here are some of my compiled notes, I'm still organizing things, I will work on cleaning it up.. I've failed at propagating pitanga cuttings a few times so far, I've been relying on using a humid container and it rots the wood quickly.. once it warms up I'll try some outdoor in-shade propagation.
If anyone wants to be added as an author/editor - let me know
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mYXkqn80a0i-uXdy_kPy95PpGZJl91ofv88C0ar9Z5E/edit?usp=sharing
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found a ripe big leaf today. the fruitfool was here and we were looking around and spotted it and we both tried it. was really good.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FfzshP8T/20210522-130809.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FfzshP8T)
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found a ripe big leaf today. the fruitfool was here and we were looking around and spotted it and we both tried it. was really good.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FfzshP8T/20210522-130809.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FfzshP8T)
Wow, that's awesome size.
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found a ripe big leaf today. the fruitfool was here and we were looking around and spotted it and we both tried it. was really good.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FfzshP8T/20210522-130809.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FfzshP8T)
Is that your hand or your kid's (trying to judge size)? How was it?
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Its the fruitfool hand who is a regular size adult. This is the same fruit Simon has been posting about Jim and Marks thick leaf. Yeah its really good. I liked it a lot, didn't have any foul aftertaste. I have another Surinam plant that makes smaller fruit, this one is much better. The plant is still small but its more productive that my other one also.
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Nice thread!
I have a couple of Pitanga's here in Europe that have fruited last year and are all flowering right now. I'll have varieties of five different seed sources to taste test in a month or so. I am in Northern Europe, so I grow these in an unheated greenhouse, where a selection of plants has no trouble handling the -5 Celsius in winter nights.
My best variety is from seeds I bought it from Vitor, a seed collector from Brazil that posted on this forum in 2015 and 2016
The first and second Pitanga I fruited were from these seeds and it was a new fruit to me. After having read everywhere about that strange Diesel or Turpentine flavor I was curious to try, but I couldn't figure out what everyone meant. The first year only one fruited and the cherries were small but delicious. They tasted a bit like Bell peppers to me, but then wiht a more fruity and sweet flavor. The second year the other fruited and it also had that same delicious flavor. Everyone I gave them too loved them, so I was a bit mystified about that aftertaste story.
The last year the first plant from a batch of seed of a supposed orange Pitanga started fruiting, so I tasted one and bingo! -a ll of a sudden I realized what everone meant by Diesel taste.
The plants that are flowering now and I still have to try this year:
a seedling from Miguel's Regina variety, that he selected in Portugal
a seedling from a 'mini' Pitanga, also from Vitor from Brazil
a seedling from Cassio's Black Pitanga, also from Brazil
a seedling from Casio's Big Red Pitanga, also from Brazil
(I have many pictures but it seems i'm unable to post them here.)
I'll take Brix measurements and measure the fruits as well. My best variety has very small fruits, but they have absolutely not even a hint of turpentine taste - they are rather the size of blueberries then cherries, and any bowl you put on the table finishes quickly. It is super productive, though.
That big leaf variety looks impressive!
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One of my Regina seedlings is my current favorite. Just setting fruit now. Variable though. The other Regina seedling I have is super small and unremarkable in taste.
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found a ripe big leaf today. the fruitfool was here and we were looking around and spotted it and we both tried it. was really good.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FfzshP8T/20210522-130809.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/FfzshP8T)
Wow great size, if you have a scale it'd be awesome to have a weight I could add to the spreadsheet.. Here is the largest red I've ever seen - from a facebook post, weighed in at 17 grams.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Dmb5q1qm/Screen-Shot-2021-05-23-at-10-33-32-PM.png) (https://postimg.cc/Dmb5q1qm)
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Last fall I order a large quantity of these plastic air layering balls on ebay:
(https://i.postimg.cc/bDPWhMt9/Air-Layering-Balls.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDPWhMt9)
Thought I'd give them a try...
Kevin
We tried the smaller ball and it failed in 100% of air layers :( even on species that layer willingly. though my air layer success normally is pretty high. I saw larger ones on Amazon but decided to continue the old fashioned way.
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Last fall I order a large quantity of these plastic air layering balls on ebay:
(https://i.postimg.cc/bDPWhMt9/Air-Layering-Balls.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDPWhMt9)
Thought I'd give them a try...
Kevin
We tried the smaller ball and it failed in 100% of air layers :( even on species that layer willingly. though my air layer success normally is pretty high. I saw larger ones on Amazon but decided to continue the old fashioned way.
Satya, those balls worked for me super well. I got 100% successful air layers from them so far but you have to control the soil moisture carefully because of the openings on the top and bottom for the small and medium size and the large size has additional openings on the sides. I’ve had success using all three sizes.
I’ve been air layering for quite a long time and the traditional method takes longer but doesn’t require as much up keep because everything is sealed up and there is little moisture loss. With the traditional method, the initial watering is usually enough to get the air layer through till harvesting/removing from the tree.
These new air layering balls are faster but not for those that don’t have time to check up on the condition of the soil inside.
On hot days, the smaller balls can dry up very quickly.
I moisten to field capacity for the initial fill and then re water once soil moisture is about 20-30% approximately.
Here’s an air layer I recently removed
(https://i.postimg.cc/hX2XVFXg/A261-DA8-B-3-CB2-4285-A700-0-FB838-FC6962.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hX2XVFXg)
This is the smallest size.
Simon
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Here’s some more data on the Jim/Mark thick leaf. Moving forward, I’m just going to call this selection “JM Thick Leaf” for short.
My tree is still in a pot and I believe the fruit will get bigger and sweeter if planted into the ground but this variety produces large fruit even in a pot as you can see from the pictures. This particular fruit was harvested today and weighed in at 14.1 grams and measured approximately 1 1/4 inches wide. The Brix was 16.7% Brix and it tasted very sweet with almost no detectable resin flavor although it does have some.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CBrt8s8m/066-A0-B11-E91-A-49-A1-AF8-D-90981-A22278-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CBrt8s8m)
(https://i.postimg.cc/3yBz8TxM/890-F6-CA6-8-DDC-44-A5-BA79-E5-BC53-FFD5-FD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3yBz8TxM)
The fruit is as big as a half dollar. I only remembered to take a picture of the width after I squished it for the Brix reading, thus the wet spot.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VSVBBG7r/926-F2512-0-FC7-40-B9-BE0-E-DC3-BA47-D9-A4-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VSVBBG7r)
(https://i.postimg.cc/LJyz2QFC/1-ED66-B10-2-F2-E-4587-AA3-B-EC44087303-D1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LJyz2QFC)
Sorry but I am out of seeds and scions for this variety since lots of people have contacted me.
Simon
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Simon,
How large would as in-ground tree get here in So-Cal? I keep contemplating if i should get one or not.
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Simon,
How large would as in-ground tree get here in So-Cal? I keep contemplating if i should get one or not.
They are not tremendously fast growing or big trees. Even in Brazil it was rare to see them more than 15 feet tall, more like a bush really. After 10 years they'll maybe be 10' tall, but can be pretty wide, like 6'.
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Yeah, slow growing. The San Diego Botanical garden has several pruned as standards and they're ~12' tall. I have kept mine small, 3-4' with light pruning and the oldest has been in the ground maybe 6 years.
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I've seen them 6ft in pots in about 6 years, seen plenty 15+ feet around here in OC, they seem to love it here..
@Simon thanks for that, I've added it to the spreadsheet, looks like 17 grams is still the largest one.
Also for the air layer ball, since you said they require up-keep, what if you wrap saran wrap and then put the ball?
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If you wrap the ball with Saran Wrap, it will trap the heat and the moisture may steam the roots or cambium. If you wrap in Saran Wrap, it may be wise to cover it with an outside layer of foil as well, shiny side out. This will reflect the sunlight.
There’s lots of minor details to consider whenever you air layer, especially with these balls. The black color heats up in the sun and will increase the temp of the soil in the ball and increase the rate of root growth but at a specific temperature, the heat may be too much and actually kill the roots.
In early Spring, these balls are great without foil but once temps go up, foil will probably be required.
These trees are relatively easy to maintain at a reasonable height and width. I’m just starting to learn about this fruit and there’s still a lot I don’t know.
Does anyone know if Surinam Cherries grow true to seed or similar to seed? Are there clones in the seeds if you get more than one seed in a fruit?
Simon
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If you wrap the ball with Saran Wrap, it will trap the heat and the moisture may steam the roots or cambium. If you wrap in Saran Wrap, it may be wise to cover it with an outside layer of foil as well, shiny side out. This will reflect the sunlight.
There’s lots of minor details to consider whenever you air layer, especially with these balls. The black color heats up in the sun and will increase the temp of the soil in the ball and increase the rate of root growth but at a specific temperature, the heat may be too much and actually kill the roots.
In early Spring, these balls are great without foil but once temps go up, foil will probably be required.
These trees are relatively easy to maintain at a reasonable height and width. I’m just starting to learn about this fruit and there’s still a lot I don’t know.
Does anyone know if Surinam Cherries grow true to seed or similar to seed? Are there clones in the seeds if you get more than one seed in a fruit?
Simon
I read that about 70% of the time they are true to seed, but this is applicable thus far only to color - ie, planting black fruit seeds = black fruit seedlings 7/10 times. I don't often get double seeds, but I spit them in the garden mostly and haven't been re-seeding much. I had one seedling pop up in the weirdest place and it survived winter which really impressed me.
Pitanga is for real one of the biggest parts of my collection and I adore the fruit. My gf and I are trying to make a pitanga pie this year, but I kind of think it's a waste since the fruit is so good out of hand. I usually eat them every day during the season and it's my favorite stop on my garden walk.
Marcos Gugliemetti has some really unique ones that I grew from seed that have totally different leaf shape than the US ones I've grown from seed. They are suuuuper long leafed and very pointy at the tips and grow pure red growth, very aesthetic. I can't wait to try the fruit from those seedlings.
Of note of the varieties I have: one red unknown seedling, 10' tall, never had fruit from it! Lolita seedling, 6' tall, no fruit yet, I gave up and grafted my productive selected vermillion on it, Black Star is also a shy producer at 10' tall. It is really lanky and poorly built and shares a pot with a strawberry guava which I think is absolutely strangling it. I'm probably going to saw the pot in half and try to split them.
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I'mma have to flex on this thread later...
nice pics ya'll, beautiful fruits....
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Here are some pictures of my best pitanga, the one I mentioned above here, seeds came from Brazil. It is small but super productive and has no turpentine flavor
(https://i.postimg.cc/p9DzYtYQ/Sweetpitanga-7.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p9DzYtYQ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/F77SCSVH/Sweetpitanga-5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F77SCSVH)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Tyq55JfC/Sweetpitanga-6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Tyq55JfC)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Cd6B81pT/Sweet-Pitangaclose-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Cd6B81pT)
And these next pictures are of the 'orange' pitanga that turns out to just turn red as well. It is bigger and more meaty, but it has the turpentine flavor. It has a very different tree habit and is not so productive. It also flowers and fruits a month later than the other one. Not my favorite and very different from the other one.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zyzs1J3v/Orangepitanga-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zyzs1J3v)
(https://i.postimg.cc/nsMNC04t/Orangepitanga-4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/nsMNC04t)
Next month I'll post some pictures of the plants that fruit for the first time this year, if they are any good.
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the one i have with double sized flowers is really good, it has an unusual texture and taste, and fruits are huge...
reminds me of pitangatuba and pitanga mixed...firm fleshed fruits...
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Someone please send me a decent Surinam cherry!
I have a hundred+ of them bordering parts of the yard. They all suck.
Barbados cherries are the bomb!!
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I’ve had trouble finding online listings for named varieties or seedlings of those varieties as well. They grow true from seed fairly reliably right? Anyone have tips on sourcing these high quality cultivars?
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K-Rimes, thanks so much for all the information! I am really starting to love this fruit. It sucks some of the seedlings aren’t bearing fruit for you or they’re shy bearers.
Simon
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Someone please send me a decent Surinam cherry!
I have a hundred+ of them bordering parts of the yard. They all suck.
Barbados cherries are the bomb!!
Wow maybe I haven't had the right acerola or something cause I think they're kinda shwag compared to a great pitanga. I look forward to trying more off my tree this year. One thing for sure is that acerola REALLY improve after sitting overnight post picking. Pitanga don't make it further than my elbow bends when they're ripe - they get eaten immediately.
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K-Rimes, thanks so much for all the information! I am really starting to love this fruit. It sucks some of the seedlings aren’t bearing fruit for you or they’re shy bearers.
Simon
I totally switched up my fertilizer regimen this year going from chicken manure and MiracleGro from Costco (which is the standard 12-4-8) to using Schultz Slow Release 12-24-12 without chicken manure or anything else. My thoughts are I just totally had the nutrition wrong last year and that's why I got no fruit. Both of those that don't produce are in 30 gallon fabric pots which I kind of hmmm and hah about. Not sure they're really all that. The soil is also muck in both of the biggest ones cause of worms. Kinda want to leave them in it for extra stress...
It also seems they REALLY turn up fruit production when they get rootbound. My most productive vermillion was brutally rootbound last year in one of those plastic fake half barrels from HD and gave us lots of fruit. I up potted to 25g so it's going to take a while.
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I'mma have to flex on this thread later...
nice pics ya'll, beautiful fruits....
Flex away Adam, I can’t wait to see what you got!
On a side note, I planted some seeds and discovered that one of my seedlings produces huge leaves. I measured the largest leaf and it was 3 inches long and 2 inches wide.
I don’t know if there is a correlation between leaf size and fruit size but if there is, this seedling may produce some huge fruit in the future.
I believe this seedling is from JM Thick leaf but I’m not positive because I didn’t mark it at the time of planting. Here are a few pictures of my “ Giant Leaf”
(https://i.postimg.cc/XrqWfN7x/CF12585-B-9785-458-A-A542-8-BD575-C352-C1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XrqWfN7x)
(https://i.postimg.cc/0rvbpmgf/A0-F27728-054-D-47-E6-AE80-731-F5834-F7-DA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0rvbpmgf)
Simon
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My black star made nominally normal leaves last year and now they are XXXL. I think it depends on fertilizers or something.
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My black star made nominally normal leaves last year and now they are XXXL. I think it depends on fertilizers or something.
Combination of fertilizers and sun exposure, I have it in my spreadsheet but I can't remember where I read it - generally more sun results in smaller foliage but possibly more fruits
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mYXkqn80a0i-uXdy_kPy95PpGZJl91ofv88C0ar9Z5E/
Here is a leaf from a random blackstar seedling, my bonsai which gets less sun also had similar behaviors.. leaves as large as the one Simon posted.
(https://i.postimg.cc/3y9MqdrP/leaf.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/3y9MqdrP)
(https://i.postimg.cc/r0m62MKz/leaf-measure.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/r0m62MKz)
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Thanks for the info! I’ve been giving my Surinam Cherry trees all the same fertilizer but this one is just bigger for some reason. Looks like it’s pretty normal to have large leaves though from SoCal balconies pictures.
These fruit are so fragile, I can’t imagine them ever being sold in the supermarkets. I love walking by the trees and seeing the dark fruit and testing them for ripeness by palming them.
Simon
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I decided to take a Brix reading from some of the smaller JM Thick Leaf fruit and I got a reading of 17.0% Brix. I will stop by Leo Manuel’s place soon and test some fruit from his mature, in ground Vermillion.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xNnGqkYH/23964-C87-0177-4-F7-A-A66-A-66-CAAE7-BBBF4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xNnGqkYH)
(https://i.postimg.cc/svf8NxSv/EF6-AC7-C6-FA3-C-4-E37-8-A23-1-B8-C7-C02137-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/svf8NxSv)
Simon
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I had some great ones this morning. 3 different bushes. One had a mongo flavor. Two more like tangerine.
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Shane, please post some pictures and some more details when you get a chance. I’m hoping to collect some good information on this thread so that members can determine which varieties may suit them best. Mango and Tangerine flavor sounds awesome!
Simon
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(https://i.postimg.cc/BX5c6NHj/8-E15-A6-AF-73-DE-4572-9-B2-B-00-E73-C7-AB298.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/BX5c6NHj)
This is the one that reminded me of mango. Grafted from Gary, an acquaintance in a horticulture class. He has a tree at his place in ocean beach but no idea where it came from. The other two were seedlings from buddy roo and a late winter sparse bloom. very few fruit. I think the quality might have more to do with the season or some other factors. None of these was exceptional last year. Although the fruit Gary shared with me from his tree were. I’ll let you know if the Gary continues to impress.
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are there seedlings that never fruit? I got a plant some 9 years ago, didn't grow much and no fruits.
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Thanks for the picture and the information Shane! Hopefully the fruit will get even better as the tree matures or perhaps with more fertilizer.
Behl, there were other reports of seedlings not fruiting. It could be genetic, lack of light or lack of fertilizer. I wonder if girdling would help.
Simon
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I have a grafted red Surinam Cherry. It's called "Ben's", as in it originally came from Ben Poirier. I think it was one of his seedlings. It's the sweetest fruit I have tasted so far. What is very interesting about this fruit is that it does not have the deep lobes that you normally associate with Surinam Cherries. I will post a pic later.
I've tried some of the black varieties like "Black Star" and expected them to be sweeter than mine, but have been disappointed. I just added another Surinam Cherry to my collection. It's a "Zill's Black" seedling that came out red. The fruit is huge and it too is sweet.
I talked to a long time grower of Surinam Cherries in California, and he told me that the same tree from year to year can taste different. I haven't experienced that with mine, but would like to hear if others have experienced this.
(https://i.postimg.cc/JGJ2cH2g/IMG-4387.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JGJ2cH2g)
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Judging buy the leaves and the fact that the fruit isn't lobed, I'd say you've got a Eugenia Pitanga (Pitanga-peba, Creeping Pitanga) rather than Eugenia Uniflora which would be your regular Pitanga. Does this one have any of that diesel flavor that Pitangas are notorious for?
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Judging buy the leaves and the fact that the fruit isn't lobed, I'd say you've got a Eugenia Pitanga (Pitanga-peba, Creeping Pitanga) rather than Eugenia Uniflora which would be your regular Pitanga. Does this one have any of that diesel flavor that Pitangas are notorious for?
Thank you! You are right. No, it does not have any diesel taste to it. I’ve always thought it was just another Surinam Cherry. As I said, it’s the sweetest one I’ve tasted. Until today, I didn’t know about Pitanga-peba.
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Found a good write up on Pitanga -pebo:
https://www.colecionandofrutas.com.br/eugeniapitanga.htm (https://www.colecionandofrutas.com.br/eugeniapitanga.htm)
“ Uses: Fruits from September to November. The fruits are tastier and juicier than the Arboreal Pitanga ( Eugenia uniflora ) and can be consumed fresh in the form of juices, jellies and ice creams .”
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Judging buy the leaves and the fact that the fruit isn't lobed, I'd say you've got a Eugenia Pitanga (Pitanga-peba, Creeping Pitanga) rather than Eugenia Uniflora which would be your regular Pitanga. Does this one have any of that diesel flavor that Pitangas are notorious for?
Not all Pitanga aka uniflora have the diesel/petrol component. That is the purpose for the choosen selections, to grow/propagate ones that lack the usual undesirable flavor.
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I have a grafted red Surinam Cherry. It's called "Ben's", as in it originally came from Ben Poirier. I think it was one of his seedlings. It's the sweetest fruit I have tasted so far. What is very interesting about this fruit is that it does not have the deep lobes that you normally associate with Surinam Cherries. I will post a pic later.
I've tried some of the black varieties like "Black Star" and expected them to be sweeter than mine, but have been disappointed. I just added another Surinam Cherry to my collection. It's a "Zill's Black" seedling that came out red. The fruit is huge and it too is sweet.
I talked to a long time grower of Surinam Cherries in California, and he told me that the same tree from year to year can taste different. I haven't experienced that with mine, but would like to hear if others have experienced this.
(https://i.postimg.cc/JGJ2cH2g/IMG-4387.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JGJ2cH2g)
Joe, that is awesome! I would love to get a weight, measurement and Brix reading on this selection from Ben.
Nexxogen, thanks for the information! I had no idea there was a different species or subspecies of Surinam Cherry. I see that the leaves of that smooth skin variety is more pointy and elongated.
If I get a hold of that smooth skin variety, I would love to cross it with the JM Thick leaf and the Vermillion.
Simon
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are there seedlings that never fruit? I got a plant some 9 years ago, didn't grow much and no fruits.
Yes, there certainly are. I'm having trouble getting my 10' plants to reliably fruit. Damn near ready to give up on them, or at least, chop them down to a reasonable height and see what happens. Not much to lose at this juncture... I did graft a few of branches but, still, not really feeling top working 50-60 branches to make the rest of the tree produce.
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I have a grafted red Surinam Cherry. It's called "Ben's", as in it originally came from Ben Poirier. I think it was one of his seedlings. It's the sweetest fruit I have tasted so far. What is very interesting about this fruit is that it does not have the deep lobes that you normally associate with Surinam Cherries. I will post a pic later.
I've tried some of the black varieties like "Black Star" and expected them to be sweeter than mine, but have been disappointed. I just added another Surinam Cherry to my collection. It's a "Zill's Black" seedling that came out red. The fruit is huge and it too is sweet.
I talked to a long time grower of Surinam Cherries in California, and he told me that the same tree from year to year can taste different. I haven't experienced that with mine, but would like to hear if others have experienced this.
(https://i.postimg.cc/JGJ2cH2g/IMG-4387.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JGJ2cH2g)
Joe, that is awesome! I would love to get a weight, measurement and Brix reading on this selection from Ben.
Nexxogen, thanks for the information! I had no idea there was a different species or subspecies of Surinam Cherry. I see that the leaves of that smooth skin variety is more pointy and elongated.
If I get a hold of that smooth skin variety, I would love to cross it with the JM Thick leaf and the Vermillion.
Simon
@joe_oc - I concur that taste can vary year-to-year, I know someone in OC who has been growing rare fruits for 30+ years and he has echo'd these remarks
The smooth/lacking ribs is NOT indicative of it being a E. Pitanga, E. Uniflora var. Dasyblasta also is generally ribless.. Ben himself on his site has stated these as E. Uniflora, I will however note that the leaves do look more like the E. Pitanga leaves.. but leaves can look different based on nutrition.
I believe this one you have is either of these:
"Eugenia uniflora - Surinam cherry - seedlings and grafted plants available. Grafted plants are "Lolita" and a couple of our own selections (one is "Sweet Orange" fruit almost 1.5",bright orange and very sweet, the other "Black Beauty" fruit almost 1.5" dark colored with an intense flavor)"
- http://encantofarms.com/poirier.html (http://encantofarms.com/poirier.html)
btw, Ben has said he no longer has any of these grafted ones for sale at this time last I checked
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are there seedlings that never fruit? I got a plant some 9 years ago, didn't grow much and no fruits.
Of course, the problem with getting some small seedlings is sometimes you may have one with runt genetics but since you purchased it as the expected size its hard to weed out any weak characteristics. For 9 years I would say that one is definitely a runt/bottom of the liter pick.. that being said, if you don't mind you can try:
defoliating + light prune + liquid fertilizer + consistent watering - it should take about a month to start back up and if all goes well you should see very aggressive growth and possibly flowering - I just did this with my bonsai
I would suspect like simon said, that girdling may also trigger blooms, I will note something interesting that I've picked up from other bonsai growers w/pitangas..
They have experienced trees to bloom after heavy thick wiring around the trunk has been removed.. girdling may work in a similar mechanism.
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No, this is neither the sweet orange or black beauty from Ben. That's what is currently listed on his website. The fruit is red when fully ripen. My friend grafted this onto a uniflora rootstock. You can easily see the differences in the leaves. Very elongated vs. the rootstock leaves. Whatever it is, I really enjoy it. Here is a pic from May:
(https://i.postimg.cc/K1x91YFB/37740-A08-63-EB-476-F-A4-C1-C75373-E3-E5-E9-jpeg-123c8b40fcce0a3e3f595d2186d2a10a.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K1x91YFB)
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This pic below shows the leaves from the grafted plant and the rootstock (upper left is the narrow leaves that my fruits are from and lower right are normal looking Surinam Cherry leaves from the rootstock). Showing this because it clearly isn't a nutritional deficiency. So beyond the lobeless fruit, the leaf structure is very different. Nexxogen is correct with his assessment. Pitanga-pebo.
(https://i.postimg.cc/G8d7yhvZ/IMG-4524.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G8d7yhvZ)
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This pic below shows the leaves from the grafted plant and the rootstock (upper left is the narrow leaves that my fruits are from and lower right are normal looking Surinam Cherry leaves from the rootstock). Showing this because it clearly isn't a nutritional deficiency. So beyond the lobeless fruit, the leaf structure is very different. Nexxogen is correct with his assessment. Pitanga-pebo.
(https://i.postimg.cc/G8d7yhvZ/IMG-4524.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G8d7yhvZ)
It could be E. Pitanga then, nice, would love to buy scions sometime.. I really want to try this fruit and I'm pretty sure the one I purchased isn't actually E. Pitanga.. we should hold a pitanga tasting party sometime
Also kinda reminds me of http://fruitsandgardening.blogspot.com/2018/05/more-on-guaruja-red-surinam-cherry.html (http://fruitsandgardening.blogspot.com/2018/05/more-on-guaruja-red-surinam-cherry.html)
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A member of this forum Miguel.pt sells Eugenia Pitanga seeds. This is where I've got mine from.
Another characteristic of this species is that it is very short - won't grow more than 2m high supposedly. It also defoliates during winter. Wikipedia actually describes it as "deciduous".
Nexxogen, thanks for the information! I had no idea there was a different species or subspecies of Surinam Cherry.
I don't even think it's correct to call this a species or subspecies of Surinam Cherry. I think it's simply another Eugenia which just happens to have fruits that look like Surinam Cherries.
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Has anyone here tried top working and unproductive or undesirable plant? I have two that are shy bearers and that don't taste very good.
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Has anyone here tried top working and unproductive or undesirable plant? I have two that are shy bearers and that don't taste very good.
Works fine. I have marklee's 'driveway', regina seedling and the one i just mentioned all grafted over a poor tasting seedling.
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When’s the best time of year to graft Surinam Cherry here in So Cal? Thanks
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When’s the best time of year to graft Surinam Cherry here in So Cal? Thanks
I have grafted them at several different times of year, often with poor success. My only successful grafts have been in late Summer after it has cooled off, or early spring with the plant in a greenhouse to keep it cozy. I'm in 9b, so that causes some stress / cold issues during deep winter.
Personally I think the optimal time is early spring and that's when I had my most consistent successes.
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Thanks K-Rimes!
Think I’m gonna give it a shot now, weather’s lookin pretty mild and my Zill’s Dark tree is pushing lots of new growth but doesn’t have any fruit on it since she ain’t fruited yet, women...
The Zill’s is from exotica nursery and the other Surinams I have in the ground are two runtz that are from seeds I grew from some tasty black skinned fruit I got from a big Surinam cherry grower named Thom.
Great looking trees and fruit everyone, I hope to add to the discussion sooner than later...
Zill’s Dark tree
(https://i.postimg.cc/qgGCTBHb/17-A30-C50-57-DA-416-D-88-A2-BA35-A0-E8584-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qgGCTBHb)
Runt 1
(https://i.postimg.cc/K1rQTS6R/FF30-DAD3-3-AF1-409-E-8-EF6-2-A2-E7-BC454-DC.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K1rQTS6R)
Runt 2
(https://i.postimg.cc/1Vqr5L0R/C6388586-0-DB6-43-B4-B563-EFEE2783-E06-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1Vqr5L0R)
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Thanks K-Rimes!
Think I’m gonna give it a shot now, weather’s lookin pretty mild and my Zill’s Dark tree is pushing lots of new growth but doesn’t have any fruit on it since she ain’t fruited yet, women...
The Zill’s is from exotica nursery and the other Surinams I have in the ground are two runtz that are from seeds I grew from some tasty black skinned fruit I got from a big Surinam cherry grower named Thom.
Great looking trees and fruit everyone, I hope to add to the discussion sooner than later...
Thom in HB?
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I decided to take a Brix reading from some of the smaller JM Thick Leaf fruit and I got a reading of 17.0% Brix. I will stop by Leo Manuel’s place soon and test some fruit from his mature, in ground Vermillion.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xNnGqkYH/23964-C87-0177-4-F7-A-A66-A-66-CAAE7-BBBF4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xNnGqkYH)
(https://i.postimg.cc/svf8NxSv/EF6-AC7-C6-FA3-C-4-E37-8-A23-1-B8-C7-C02137-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/svf8NxSv)
Simon
Here is one of the "thick leaf" Neitzel fruits. Very good taste, similar to the "black star" and "zills black".
(https://i.postimg.cc/zyHf94G4/jm.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zyHf94G4)
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Here are some photos of my pitangas. I have so many more not shown. I have a couple Regina seedlings from Miguel, a few Zill's from achetadomestica and a few other randoms I can't recall. Sorry if the photos aren't clear, it's hard when everything is so green here
(https://i.postimg.cc/R3RJcWc4/43-C627-AF-AF9-B-4095-AA97-BBA5-F6-E8-C357.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R3RJcWc4)
My fruitless Lolita with a Zill's graft in the centre
(https://i.postimg.cc/hJfR0wmv/48080963-86-B7-4028-BC51-0-F98-D5-A8-C49-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hJfR0wmv)
Grafted vermillion that produces prolifically
(https://i.postimg.cc/crSZNXpk/9-BFA91-B4-CA5-E-4303-871-A-7119-AD06-D7-B0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/crSZNXpk)
10' tall Black Star that is combo potted with a strawberry guava that is choking it out. I repotted them yesterday and I hope that the black star will come back a bit. It had a lot of branch die-off I think due to being root bound. It fruits rarely but it is the sweetest one I have.
(https://i.postimg.cc/G9YrNZ5s/D032-B4-FF-0937-4254-8359-A287-BCD04289.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G9YrNZ5s)
10' tall red pitanga which I've never had a fruit from, it had many fruit on it when I bought it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/WhwVp0jN/D0-FCE523-8-BAE-4-E78-8874-59908163-AB70.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/WhwVp0jN)
Zill's, black star, or seedlings from Argentina (the bigger pointy leaf ones in the back are the Argentine variety)
(https://i.postimg.cc/87kS7sPh/E7796728-DE81-4-DFE-87-C7-A8649947278-A.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/87kS7sPh)
Chamba and Lolita from Exotica, no flowers yet
(https://i.postimg.cc/v4PdfMcC/FC0-C45-AF-1236-4-A6-C-9920-C14465-F77616.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/v4PdfMcC)
Lolita from Exotica that I grafted some of my vermillion onto
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does any one sell scion wood for the surinam cherry trees, i can not find any.
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does any one sell scion wood for the surinam cherry trees, i can not find any.
yes plenty people do but grafting success might be limited now..
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Check this out @simon_grow, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFcR74X7y6k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFcR74X7y6k) apparently 20%+ brix is doable with pitangas.
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Wow, that’s awesome, I’d love to get a hold of that variety! Thanks for the info!
Simon
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My grafted vermillion is into heavy flowering time. Looking like a great yield for this fall crop. Had a mild spring crop but birds knocked them all off.
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Its that time of the year again.. might have a winner with this unknown black fruited seedling!
Got this one from a buddy in 2020 so maybe I'll name if after him, he doesn't know the original source but it grew extremely vigorously for me and throughout winter as well.
I should note that microclimate shenanigans are in play ;D.
Really happy so far with this seedling, I believe this is the first time it properly set and ripened some fruit, under 4 years old and great flower to fruit set ratio with no other surinams nearby.
These fruits ripened this week, brix ranging from 16 to almost 19, some more heat could result in a 20. This is much sweeter than my grafted blackstar, however, my blackstar only gets morning sun whereas the balcony the seedling is grown at gets afternoon sun only.
(https://i.postimg.cc/fSxrr9Nn/brix.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fSxrr9Nn)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Czs2Ck7b/pitanga.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Czs2Ck7b)
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I just had my first surinam cherry. Does anyone prefer the red variety over the darker hue varieties? Seems like everyone likes the darks more
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I just had my first surinam cherry. Does anyone prefer the red variety over the darker hue varieties? Seems like everyone likes the darks more
Red gets a bad rap but I like them just the same really. Even a tart pitanga is tasty to me.
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I just had my first surinam cherry. Does anyone prefer the red variety over the darker hue varieties? Seems like everyone likes the darks more
I like plenty of reds, with the exception of when some ripen during the cooler months.. one of mine went from tasty to literal tomatoes flavor, wasn't good at all.
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Growing and fruiting several types myself. Just recently did an exterior job for client and was able to try fruit from her Surinam. They were very large and extremely juicy, some of the best ive had. I noticed the tree trunk had a sprinkler head 2 ft away and was receiving lots of water weekly. I’ve noticed on my own Surinams the largest juiciest fruit comes during the rains.
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Just starting to harvest the Vermillion surinam cherry now. It is the most likeable fruit in our family. Very juicy, very sweet ( has to be picked fully ripe), and has a strong tropical flavor to it.
Yes, it loves water! Once we finished harvesting this batch, i will water it heavily and it will start bloom again like crazy. I mostly use gray water from our kitchen ( water we used to wash rice, veggie, meat, etc). It seems to love it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/4mwcZNT3/20220510-200717.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4mwcZNT3)
(https://i.postimg.cc/NKMH0qgk/20220511-091436.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/NKMH0qgk)
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I have a red and a black from seed and they taste the same to me when ripe. Both are best when they fall off the tree on their own or come off woth the slightest touch. I will probably ditch the black one and keep the red because the ripe red fruit is easier to spot. I am interested in trying all these varieties but the plain red is already very nice, I probably won't bother growing the special types
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(https://i.postimg.cc/MMCnxYgs/22-C43299-0102-4-D38-A477-BF47-BC635186.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MMCnxYgs)
(https://i.postimg.cc/S22nwP12/6-DDDAD5-E-677-A-446-F-B90-D-B7-AD0-CB1-A19-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/S22nwP12)
(https://i.postimg.cc/H8bVLygT/7-EA5-A8-B7-F9-C9-4-E8-E-8266-EF5-D14-B3-A5-A5.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/H8bVLygT)
Different looking fruits, same tree.
Very interesting 🤨.
The red one is 11 brix
The dark red one is 15 brix.
So tell me what happened?
Even from the beginning the fruits look different?
(https://i.postimg.cc/HJLctnQt/C69-A3-C78-A41-F-4-A6-E-9-C55-EFE4-F3-CAB90-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HJLctnQt)
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Its that time of the year again.. might have a winner with this unknown black fruited seedling!
Got this one from a buddy in 2020 so maybe I'll name if after him, he doesn't know the original source but it grew extremely vigorously for me and throughout winter as well.
I should note that microclimate shenanigans are in play ;D.
Really happy so far with this seedling, I believe this is the first time it properly set and ripened some fruit, under 4 years old and great flower to fruit set ratio with no other surinams nearby.
These fruits ripened this week, brix ranging from 16 to almost 19, some more heat could result in a 20. This is much sweeter than my grafted blackstar, however, my blackstar only gets morning sun whereas the balcony the seedling is grown at gets afternoon sun only.
(https://i.postimg.cc/fSxrr9Nn/brix.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fSxrr9Nn)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Czs2Ck7b/pitanga.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Czs2Ck7b)
The most recent brix I measured from fruits of this seedling was 22.8!
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(https://i.postimg.cc/McxQGS3z/4-E134-AD0-7-A9-A-4-AAB-A173-7-E9-A513334-E6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/McxQGS3z)
Hitting 20+ with them. Over the course of the last week or so over 5 people tried them and the best remark I got was “Interesting”.
But my friend came again today and said he likes them if they are good…the fruit quality varies so much!!!some brix was only 8!!
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I just got some cuttings today. The fruits are big, good flesh ratio, sweet and tangy. I also get cuttings of colossus variety; the the mother tree was just flower, but the flowers are huge compare to other variety. The owner said that the fruits were large as well.
Top view. The fruit on the left is the one mentioned above. There were bigger and darker ones that I did not take the picture. The one on the right is from my own tree. Size compare to a quarter.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jwTwKgrw/RB-surinam2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jwTwKgrw)
Side view:
(https://i.postimg.cc/KRGW4x5Q/RB-surinam1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KRGW4x5Q)
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This is an awesome thread everyone! Thanks for the input and knowledge. Does anyone have any experience growing Surinam Cherry trees from Exotica Nursery in Vista, Ca? I know they’re seedlings. I believe I got one called San Diego Red and another called Chamba. They’re in the ground and growing well and flowered for the first time this year.
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This is an awesome thread everyone! Thanks for the input and knowledge. Does anyone have any experience growing Surinam Cherry trees from Exotica Nursery in Vista, Ca? I know they’re seedlings. I believe I got one called San Diego Red and another called Chamba. They’re in the ground and growing well and flowered for the first time this year.
Yes, plenty of people are growing seedlings from exotica, results may vary in terms of fruit quality, could get a winner, average, or below average (just like any other source).
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I have a fruiting 'Chamba' variety they are very good IMO some years plenty other years shy but tasty variety.
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Has anyone harvested any Zill’s Dark fruit here in SoCal? Care to comment on the flavor? How long did it take to produce fruit? This thread is awesome, by the way.
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Introducing “ Ruby Grapefruit” Surinam, out of eight fruiting seedling trees I have one of decent eating quality that to me taste has balanced flavor resemblance of “ruby” grapefruit.
This may be a common flavor profile among some varieties of Surinam.
(https://i.postimg.cc/n9G7K7d0/E76-C1-F19-B363-42-EA-AACF-9810-C8-F914-D6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/n9G7K7d0)
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That sound right...
The best reds I have tasted did indeed have a citrus type flavor.
Kevin
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This is an awesome thread everyone! Thanks for the input and knowledge. Does anyone have any experience growing Surinam Cherry trees from Exotica Nursery in Vista, Ca? I know they’re seedlings. I believe I got one called San Diego Red and another called Chamba. They’re in the ground and growing well and flowered for the first time this year.
I have several plants from them, Lolita, Chamba, and Vermillion that are now in 7.5g square pots. The Lolitas have been failures all around for me (it grew really fast and is in a 25 gallon) it got up to 7' tall and it flowered decently but never set fruit year in year out, even with cross pollination and even hand pollination. I stumped it and grafted Zill's on it from a FL source. I left one small branch to the side of the original Lolita to give it another chance but I am doubtful it ever will. The Zill's graft is doing nice and has flowered before but no sets.
The Chambas have been getting hammered by either a fungal issue, or thrips or something. The leaves have this sort of micro hail damage look all over. Regardless of fungicides and imidacloprid, or frequent sprays with Neem, Insecticidal soap, you name it and still the same. I fear it will pass into my other productive pitangas but seems to be kind of localized to just a few. An Argentinian seedling I have from Marcos has the same issues but not quite as bad. I don't know what to do about it. SoCalBalcony suggests that maybe I'm over fertilizing so I'm going to give that a break and properly ignore them for awhile.
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I like this thread a lot so I’ll keep it going. I finally got to try the Zill Dark Surinam Cherry. I grafted this variety onto a seedling I got from Exotica Nursery. Grafts were done in April 2021, and the fruits ripened up in September 2022. Tree is still young (about 3 feet tall) but I still got about 8 fruits. These were delicious, juicy, and addictive. No gasoline aftertaste at all. Definitely a keeper.
(https://i.postimg.cc/bGY6XZJY/77-E89812-16-F2-4-DB6-886-D-58713-AC538-E6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bGY6XZJY)
(https://i.postimg.cc/VJW7HqzH/9-E7606-EE-49-BA-4057-85-E4-2406-C43-CA357.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VJW7HqzH)
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The Zill dark looks pretty tasty, although I find the petrol taste unique and somewhat addicting. I have a Lolita seedling that is about 3-4 years old and pumps out a ton of fruit. I noticed the darker (riper?) they get, the less gasoline aftertaste is detectable. The fruit will hang until it turns purple and starts to shrivel a bit. At that point it’s like a super sweet tart cherry with no aftertaste. Here are some pictures of the Lolita fruit at different stages. Small but delicious!
(https://i.postimg.cc/G45BCZx1/4042-C650-F072-4-A37-8307-9-B6496-E7-E6-FA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G45BCZx1)
(https://i.postimg.cc/hJQXPp2Q/A6336-C6-E-1-ABB-4122-8-FFE-D46-F4-B46-FD59.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hJQXPp2Q)
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I fruited a couple 'Regina' seedlings. I got seeds from MiguelPt several years ago. They are best uniflora I've had. No resinous flavor at all and sweet. Mine hasnt had a lot of flowers but I just popped it in the ground so maybe it will improve flowering. I'll try to remember to get a brix on next fruit.
(https://i.postimg.cc/6yvpyV5x/127-B7-AE6-D2-D4-4231-8-C04-0-FF2-C0-C57-BCD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/6yvpyV5x)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Mn0ZYWQs/7861-BC62-7-CD2-450-C-82-C5-D304-FCD06486.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mn0ZYWQs)
(https://i.postimg.cc/5Yrftyht/7874-D5-B3-9268-457-C-98-F5-32-C9-E9-A5076-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5Yrftyht)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wyjBvS3w/92-BA1407-AF90-4460-8030-A06760-AE5-FDB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wyjBvS3w)
(https://i.postimg.cc/2q2zP2Th/B503-E90-F-9839-4-BF2-9-F8-F-02-B148-C4-CFF1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2q2zP2Th)
(https://i.postimg.cc/0z12m6bM/B5078606-689-F-451-A-9-A6-F-B1-AE41892-C7-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0z12m6bM)
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The Zill dark looks pretty tasty, although I find the petrol taste unique and somewhat addicting. I have a Lolita seedling that is about 3-4 years old and pumps out a ton of fruit. I noticed the darker (riper?) they get, the less gasoline aftertaste is detectable. The fruit will hang until it turns purple and starts to shrivel a bit. At that point it’s like a super sweet tart cherry with no aftertaste. Here are some pictures of the Lolita fruit at different stages. Small but delicious!
(https://i.postimg.cc/G45BCZx1/4042-C650-F072-4-A37-8307-9-B6496-E7-E6-FA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/G45BCZx1)
(https://i.postimg.cc/hJQXPp2Q/A6336-C6-E-1-ABB-4122-8-FFE-D46-F4-B46-FD59.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hJQXPp2Q)
Wow it’s really encouraging to hear you’re getting lots of fruit from a 3 to 4 year old seedling. Is yours in the ground or in a container? I’ve planted a bunch of Surinam Cherry seedlings all over my place. They’re around 2 years old or less.
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I fruited a couple 'Regina' seedlings. I got seeds from MiguelPt several years ago. They are best uniflora I've had. No resinous flavor at all and sweet. Mine hasnt had a lot of flowers but I just popped it in the ground so maybe it will improve flowering. I'll try to remember to get a brix on next fruit.
(https://i.postimg.cc/6yvpyV5x/127-B7-AE6-D2-D4-4231-8-C04-0-FF2-C0-C57-BCD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/6yvpyV5x)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Mn0ZYWQs/7861-BC62-7-CD2-450-C-82-C5-D304-FCD06486.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mn0ZYWQs)
(https://i.postimg.cc/5Yrftyht/7874-D5-B3-9268-457-C-98-F5-32-C9-E9-A5076-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5Yrftyht)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wyjBvS3w/92-BA1407-AF90-4460-8030-A06760-AE5-FDB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wyjBvS3w)
(https://i.postimg.cc/2q2zP2Th/B503-E90-F-9839-4-BF2-9-F8-F-02-B148-C4-CFF1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2q2zP2Th)
(https://i.postimg.cc/0z12m6bM/B5078606-689-F-451-A-9-A6-F-B1-AE41892-C7-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0z12m6bM)
That fruit looks great. How long did your seedlings take to begin fruiting? I’ve heard of the Regina before. Hope Miguel still sends seeds.
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I plant my Surinams in the ground after 1 year old. They really take off if planted in full sun and fertilized a couple times a year.
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XI-6 cl selection of INIA Uruguay
sweet and sour taste like eating a tangerine and no resinous taste
not my tree
(https://i.postimg.cc/yWDNhX5M/2022-05-14-14-59-40.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yWDNhX5M)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Z0wMm655/pit2.png) (https://postimg.cc/Z0wMm655)
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Last fall I order a large quantity of these plastic air layering balls on ebay:
(https://i.postimg.cc/bDPWhMt9/Air-Layering-Balls.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDPWhMt9)
Thought I'd give them a try...
Kevin
We tried the smaller ball and it failed in 100% of air layers :( even on species that layer willingly. though my air layer success normally is pretty high. I saw larger ones on Amazon but decided to continue the old fashioned way.
Satya, those balls worked for me super well. I got 100% successful air layers from them so far but you have to control the soil moisture carefully because of the openings on the top and bottom for the small and medium size and the large size has additional openings on the sides. I’ve had success using all three sizes.
I’ve been air layering for quite a long time and the traditional method takes longer but doesn’t require as much up keep because everything is sealed up and there is little moisture loss. With the traditional method, the initial watering is usually enough to get the air layer through till harvesting/removing from the tree.
These new air layering balls are faster but not for those that don’t have time to check up on the condition of the soil inside.
On hot days, the smaller balls can dry up very quickly.
I moisten to field capacity for the initial fill and then re water once soil moisture is about 20-30% approximately.
Here’s an air layer I recently removed
(https://i.postimg.cc/hX2XVFXg/A261-DA8-B-3-CB2-4285-A700-0-FB838-FC6962.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hX2XVFXg)
This is the smallest size.
Simon
Hi Simon, sorry didn't see your answer until now! Wow that is a nice root ball! Yes I noticed they dry up too fast, and had no time to moisten them, that's the reason mine failed and that's the reason I stopped using them. I travel a lot so cannot consistently tend to them unfortunately.
As for Suriname cherries, I have one seedling tree that outperforms every other one I have; the fruit is very sweet with less acidity than a typical Suriname cherry and less gasoline flavor; Zill dark are much tarter in my garden, I have maybe 10 trees and this one is sweeter/larger/juicier than Zill's. It's orangish-pink in color and has a very distinct long neck. I shared seeds with many friends, hope someone grew them to see whether these qualities persist. Let me find a photo...
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here are my Zill Dark vs my unnamed pink seedling. Also, the pink seedling fruits several times a year; Zill twice a year.
(https://i.postimg.cc/vHgrFbVH/IMG-3445.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/RZxnkfmX/IMG-5810.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/d0vryCSL/IMG-5814.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/3NDd6rbs/IMG-5812.jpg)
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Does the aroma of the crushed leaves indicate the resin flavor intensity? I had 2 pitangas with one that had very resinous smelling leaves and the other with no leaf smell. The resinous leaf died, and I still have the non-resinous smelling one. Neither fruited, though I am expecting fruit from the one I have this year.
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Here are Suriname Cherries from a Zill's Dark Seedling (seed from achetadomestica). The taste is on par with Zill's Dark (read: yummy), though the cherries on my grafted Zill's Dark aren't ripe yet, so I can't do a side-by-side comparison. The deep ribs make me want to call this tree "McRibs".
(https://i.postimg.cc/Sn9ryv1f/IMG-20221220-130926256-2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Sn9ryv1f)
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Does the aroma of the crushed leaves indicate the resin flavor intensity? I had 2 pitangas with one that had very resinous smelling leaves and the other with no leaf smell. The resinous leaf died, and I still have the non-resinous smelling one. Neither fruited, though I am expecting fruit from the one I have this year.
I believe it does, at least in my experience. Some of my seedlings have really strong, resinous tasting fruit, and similarly their leaves also have a powerful resinous smell when crushed. My sweet tasting Pitanga fruits have leaves with just a whiff of resin, not much. The Zill Dark’s leaves have little to no resin smell at all, and that’s the sweetest Pitanga I’ve tasted so far.
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I personally can't stand them and I'd have rather eaten a few puke flavored papaya. That was BEFORE my neighbor grabbed a few deep black samples from his yard and asked me to try them. I gotta say at least from HIS bush, I'd rather eat his Surinam cherry than a puke flavored papaya :-)
It's not saying much but the possibility of a dessert Surinam is still a dim possibility.
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I have a dark one from zills and it's very good. I could eat a plate of those.
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It's often possible to salvage some resinous-tasting pitangas (Eugenia uniflora). The trick is to let them get full ripe so that if you just touch them they fall off the bush right into your hand, and then collect them in a bowl and leave them, covered, in the 'fridge overnight. This has the effect of helping to dissapate the resinousness aspect of the fruit.
This will work on some but not all pitangas (Eugenia uniflora), depending, of course, upon how strong the resinousness in a particular cultivar may be. This is primarily useful for the red-fruited ones. It can be less so for the dark/black-fruited ones which can tend to be less (or not) resinous tasting than the red-fruited ones.
Might be worth a try for our TFF members to see whether their red-fruited variety loses the resinous taste by allowing them to sit in the 'fridge overnight.
[Now this has me wondering whether giving them an overnighting in the 'fridge would work with pitangatubas (Eugenia selloi) which have fairly tart fruit but which might sweeten up slightly after chilling them.]
OK — HTH
Paul M.
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I have tasted that increased irrigation during ripening reduces resinous flavor also.
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I personally can't stand them and I'd have rather eaten a few puke flavored papaya. That was BEFORE my neighbor grabbed a few deep black samples from his yard and asked me to try them. I gotta say at least from HIS bush, I'd rather eat his Surinam cherry than a puke flavored papaya :-)
It's not saying much but the possibility of a dessert Surinam is still a dim possibility.
Gary, my wife discovered a papaya that doesn't taste pukey; like you, she doesn't appreciate strong papaya flavor, so she kept propagating this one that has less sweetness but definitive floral fragrance, fresh "clean" taste, almost like a honeydew. I like very sweet (don't mind musky) papayas and don't care for "her" variety but she really loves it. Next time we see each other I can share seeds if you want.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/rKmJj09w/IMG-20230220-172741900.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rKmJj09w)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wyNK747n/IMG-20230220-172802776-PORTRAIT.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wyNK747n)
This seedling Zill's Dark fruited for the first time a couple months ago and is now loaded with flowers. Fruit were dark and in line with the parent, but what excites me most is that this seedling stands at only 3 1/2' tall.
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Can anyone point me in the direction of where to obtain scions or grafted plants of some of the improved selections (Zill's Dark, Black Star, etc.)? I'm not having any luck finding grafted/rooted plants for sale. Thank you!
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User achetadomestica has zills dark scion for sale in the buy sell trade section right now.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/Lqs2MZSv/orange-E-uniflora.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Lqs2MZSv)
something new!
Has a milder Suriname cherry taste with no after taste.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/Lqs2MZSv/orange-E-uniflora.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Lqs2MZSv)
something new!
Has a milder Suriname cherry taste with no after taste.
mine fruited for first time too. They seem to keep improving in brix. The last one was a brix of 18 and good flavor. I picked it early too, at least I thought i did...
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'Dwarf Orange'
(https://i.postimg.cc/1VNgb6rT/CF6-E23-C8-C923-4813-BE2-F-7-FDA9-F36-D437.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1VNgb6rT)
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'Chica Negra'
A couple people that tried this both thought it had a grape flavor to it. Small fruit like var Dasyblasta and smoother ribs.
(https://i.postimg.cc/LYmKcMBM/053-D1046-2064-422-A-AF64-99-DDDC50629-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LYmKcMBM)
(https://i.postimg.cc/62zJw1Y4/C991-DBEC-9059-4-C64-8-B9-C-FCDF0-F9185-CA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/62zJw1Y4)
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Interestingly the cold and rainy winter really worked for me. I usually have issues with pitanga leafing and flowering too early and getting destroyed by frost or rain. They are not so happy but are coming back. My big vermillion lived in greenhouse as did the Regina. You can probably tell which those are.
(https://i.postimg.cc/f3yxzxNz/316-F5-E9-C-CF40-45-F5-B15-D-B31-E0-A66-A744.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/f3yxzxNz)
(https://i.postimg.cc/jW1yLLxz/81-C7996-A-ED1-D-45-C2-8534-7918-E4270-DCD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jW1yLLxz)
(https://i.postimg.cc/HrBw16Fv/9-C1-D80-B7-BDEB-4-B4-B-97-A8-FAD6193-A49-E6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HrBw16Fv)
(https://i.postimg.cc/LYZLf25G/9-E1-BE1-F5-00-F5-429-C-9-C32-68102-E711992.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LYZLf25G)
(https://i.postimg.cc/bDK0Fd4z/B105-B25-D-4-D80-487-D-85-CA-7-C596-AACA5-C9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDK0Fd4z)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Zvt3x2yn/F1-C7-BEAE-5688-45-F2-8530-B54744-DCAE60.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Zvt3x2yn)
(https://i.postimg.cc/zHCht7nj/FDFC1-CD3-CE42-49-D8-8-E62-6-B5-D0-ADE0-E99.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zHCht7nj)
(https://i.postimg.cc/F130Hr2L/7-F793310-D40-B-455-D-8729-1-EFCCD75-CBE2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F130Hr2L)
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(https://i.postimg.cc/Lqs2MZSv/orange-E-uniflora.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Lqs2MZSv)
something new!
Has a milder Suriname cherry taste with no after taste.
PM sent.
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I got my first 2 flowers on my black Surinam cherry in 2018 as a small seedling from 9waters. The tree is only about 1 foot tall and was holding a fruit but it got knocked off while moving outside :(. The leaves have no resinous smell which is a good sign. Hopefully it flowers again soon
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My 9waters black-surinam produced a dozen or so fruit last year but has put out almost no flowers this year and no fruits appeared. Meanwhile, the red type I got at the same time has produced thousands of fruit. Both trees are same similar size and very healthy, I wonder if this is a fluke or if red is much more productive than black?
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Interestingly the cold and rainy winter really worked for me. I usually have issues with pitanga leafing and flowering too early and getting destroyed by frost or rain. They are not so happy but are coming back. My big vermillion lived in greenhouse as did the Regina. You can probably tell which those are.
(https://i.postimg.cc/f3yxzxNz/316-F5-E9-C-CF40-45-F5-B15-D-B31-E0-A66-A744.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/f3yxzxNz)
(https://i.postimg.cc/jW1yLLxz/81-C7996-A-ED1-D-45-C2-8534-7918-E4270-DCD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jW1yLLxz)
(https://i.postimg.cc/HrBw16Fv/9-C1-D80-B7-BDEB-4-B4-B-97-A8-FAD6193-A49-E6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HrBw16Fv)
(https://i.postimg.cc/LYZLf25G/9-E1-BE1-F5-00-F5-429-C-9-C32-68102-E711992.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LYZLf25G)
(https://i.postimg.cc/bDK0Fd4z/B105-B25-D-4-D80-487-D-85-CA-7-C596-AACA5-C9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDK0Fd4z)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Zvt3x2yn/F1-C7-BEAE-5688-45-F2-8530-B54744-DCAE60.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Zvt3x2yn)
(https://i.postimg.cc/zHCht7nj/FDFC1-CD3-CE42-49-D8-8-E62-6-B5-D0-ADE0-E99.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zHCht7nj)
(https://i.postimg.cc/F130Hr2L/7-F793310-D40-B-455-D-8729-1-EFCCD75-CBE2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/F130Hr2L)
Great pics. Thanks. None of my pitanga trees are flowering, but they are pushing new leaf growth. Is it the same with you?
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dark fruit. Fruits are big, dark, and sweet (when it is really ripe) with high acidity. Not much gasoline smell.
Red fruit. It was grafted last year. Fruits are even bigger, red, and sweet. Not much gasoline smell.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VSyw4H7b/20230913-120039.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VSyw4H7b)
(https://i.postimg.cc/vghdY8GW/20230915-120536.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vghdY8GW)
(https://i.postimg.cc/PvqnPGq0/20230915-120621.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PvqnPGq0)
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I grafted Marta's red Surinam that has no ridges & is low resin and delicious.
I like a little resin flavor with my Surinam , but this one is highly agreeable and top notch.
It's maybe a Lolita descendent. I think that red with no ridges kind has been in CA for 50+ years.
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Zill Dark harvested just this morning. Lots of resin, lots of sweetness, a little acidity to give it some balance. I just wished my tree would produce more. I only have about 7 more on the tree. Seems to be a shy bearer at least for me.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VrTPhMtV/B6-EBC87-F-EE7-D-4-FE9-897-F-C440-A7-FE7-EA0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VrTPhMtV)
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dark fruit. Fruits are big, dark, and sweet (when it is really ripe) with high acidity. Not much gasoline smell.
Red fruit. It was grafted last year. Fruits are even bigger, red, and sweet. Not much gasoline smell.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VSyw4H7b/20230913-120039.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VSyw4H7b)
(https://i.postimg.cc/vghdY8GW/20230915-120536.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vghdY8GW)
(https://i.postimg.cc/PvqnPGq0/20230915-120621.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PvqnPGq0)
Is your red fruit a named variety? Where did you find it? That’s a good looking fruit. Nice size.
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dark fruit. Fruits are big, dark, and sweet (when it is really ripe) with high acidity. Not much gasoline smell.
Red fruit. It was grafted last year. Fruits are even bigger, red, and sweet. Not much gasoline smell.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VSyw4H7b/20230913-120039.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/VSyw4H7b)
(https://i.postimg.cc/vghdY8GW/20230915-120536.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/vghdY8GW)
(https://i.postimg.cc/PvqnPGq0/20230915-120621.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PvqnPGq0)
Is your red fruit a named variety? Where did you find it? That’s a good looking fruit. Nice size.
Unknown variety. I got it from exchanging java plum plant for cutting. The ripe ones are just sweet , a lot of flesh, and jucy. It is the size of a cherry.
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I fruited a couple 'Regina' seedlings. I got seeds from MiguelPt several years ago. They are best uniflora I've had. No resinous flavor at all and sweet. Mine hasnt had a lot of flowers but I just popped it in the ground so maybe it will improve flowering. I'll try to remember to get a brix on next fruit.
(https://i.postimg.cc/6yvpyV5x/127-B7-AE6-D2-D4-4231-8-C04-0-FF2-C0-C57-BCD.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/6yvpyV5x)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Mn0ZYWQs/7861-BC62-7-CD2-450-C-82-C5-D304-FCD06486.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Mn0ZYWQs)
(https://i.postimg.cc/5Yrftyht/7874-D5-B3-9268-457-C-98-F5-32-C9-E9-A5076-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5Yrftyht)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wyjBvS3w/92-BA1407-AF90-4460-8030-A06760-AE5-FDB.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wyjBvS3w)
(https://i.postimg.cc/2q2zP2Th/B503-E90-F-9839-4-BF2-9-F8-F-02-B148-C4-CFF1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2q2zP2Th)
(https://i.postimg.cc/0z12m6bM/B5078606-689-F-451-A-9-A6-F-B1-AE41892-C7-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0z12m6bM)
I planted the seed from these first 'Regina' fruits and fruited the first one this week and it produced a very beautiful red fruit, good flavor with no resin and a brix of 16.
(https://i.postimg.cc/fSmKPDH8/temp-Imagei-Zj2-QL.avif) (https://postimg.cc/fSmKPDH8)
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My other dark one started fruited last year. It is sweet, acidic, juicy, large, and no resin taste.
(https://i.postimg.cc/k6K3qD7w/20230903-darkstar.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k6K3qD7w)
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My Zill black seedling turned out red and it was alright and better than most varieties. My lolita seedlings all turned out red and volunteered for mulch patrol. My brazilian orange seedling turned out kinda red and very ordinary. My grafted black beauty thankfully has dark fruit and is better than the rest in low resin taste, sweetness and flesh yield but still doesnt keep me awake at night in thankful awe.
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Any good source for Surinam Cherries in Florida? Most fruit tree nurseries don't carry them at all and the few that do don't have any varieties, just whatever grown from seed.
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I personally can't stand them and I'd have rather eaten a few puke flavored papaya. That was BEFORE my neighbor grabbed a few deep black samples from his yard and asked me to try them. I gotta say at least from HIS bush, I'd rather eat his Surinam cherry than a puke flavored papaya :-)
It's not saying much but the possibility of a dessert Surinam is still a dim possibility.
Gary, my wife discovered a papaya that doesn't taste pukey; like you, she doesn't appreciate strong papaya flavor, so she kept propagating this one that has less sweetness but definitive floral fragrance, fresh "clean" taste, almost like a honeydew. I like very sweet (don't mind musky) papayas and don't care for "her" variety but she really loves it. Next time we see each other I can share seeds if you want.
Thx, I would appreciate it.
I have grown several that were quite good but the plant is short lived and my limited experience with them is the seeds from their fruit has been variable as to flavor.
I'm always willing to try again
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The papaya funk is known as nasturtium and the cure is an axe. Some yellow lines especially when grown in cooler areas have this taint quite pronounced. Long reds and solo lines have little of the funk. If you grew up on these types it just seems normal and not so offensive and there a cultural dimension. A mango that I or a SE Asian might think has a hydrocarbon taint a Floridian may say has a pleasant complexity.
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What the highest brix has anyone tested on 'Zill Dark'? I got 15 degrees yesterday.
Saw simon got 16.7 on pg 2.
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Have been enjoying some nice fruit off a seedling of what I believe came from Zill's Dark. Very sweet and sour, with complexity, and low to no resin depending on when picked. Still working on that.
Funny thing is, the hedge trees of Surinam cherry all around my house now taste good to me, even though there is resin to them. Seems my taste buds have changed, and now I am not disgusted by the funkiness. Still can't eat a lot of them at one time, but like nibbling on a few each day.