Epic Hawaii Durian Orchard project and shade cage design... and irrigation!

[Kona fruit farm]

Hi Friends.. I'm about to plant out a durian orchard of 21 trees..  I've spent a considerable sum to make this area perfect for planting... all the holes were dug with an excavator and jackhammered through any and all rocks and lava slabs... the holes are honestly like 4-5' deep and just as wide... now filled with soil and small rocks and compost... 

 I'm planning on setting up a hard pipe PVC irrigation to keep the trees nice and hydrated in their early years.  i'm wondering what is the best set up for these trees to water?   Debating between and 18" riser to water in the direction of the trees... vs a tree ring drip system in a circle around the trees.... vs a underground bubbler.   so many choices!   i will be making mulch rings around the trees and also planting 6-8 pigeon pea trees in a circle around each tree to provide shade around the young trees too...  but until the pigeon peas are tall enough i'm gonna need some shade cages..

Couple things to consider.. 
-pigs and animals are not an issue for me because i've built rock walls around my entire property.
-wind is a non issue.   the area is very well protected and realistically never gets any wind. 
-i don't really wanna do steel fence posts and pound them into the ground and i'm trying not to use a bunch of fencing either..  its a lot of material for 21 trees... especially if i only use the cages for a year. or less.. 
-does anyone have success with a box type set up (thinking like 2x2's screwed together) that you set over top of the planting area?  like 4' tall  4' across and wrapping the shade cloth up one side over the top and down the other side... like an upside down U.  but open on two sides  (basically the north and south sides... so the shade cage tracks the sun rising and going over the top)  thoughts? anyone done this? 

thanks guys!

[Kona fruit farm]

[fruitlovers]

Nice work. I've done pretty much same with excavated holes in my new orchard. I'd go with the tree ring drip system for watering. You live in a very sunny area, so why waste a lot of water with evaporation? Drip is the most efficient way to water. What kind of soil do you have at very bottom of holes? Durians don't like standing water and are very prone to root rot (phytophtora). they like a lot of consistent water, but very good drainage also.  As for the cages, you can use whatever kind of material on supporting structures that you want. But i would guess that hog wire fencing and rebar stakes would be the cheapest and also the longest lasting. Wood rots very fast, at least where i live.  What spacing did you use on your rows?

[Mike T]

4 stakes and shadecloth wrap around shelters to 4 ft high might be easier to manage than some other options. Treated pine 10ft poles with strong wire lines attached and shadecloth in a box like (2 sides and top) is used by some growers and it keeps out pests.Poles last ok in wet areas. It makes for a substantial structure. Rows can lend themselves to Tatura trellising if you wanted to pursue that option.

[Kona fruit farm]

Thanks oscar and mike, 

the spacing is 25' by 25'   i know that's pushing it.... but hey. that's what i did.

as for drainage that's no problem whatsoever, plenty of rocks under these holes. and all the bottoms of the holes have been jackhammered like to 6' depth.  there is basically no possibility of standing water. 


in terms of dry conditions this year has even absolutely insane.. its rained almost every day... its a lush green tropical place at my farm now. But i know that could be a result of this year being off or maybe cause the volcano is not pumping out vog anymore i dunno.  Something seems to have changed in the weather patterns here over the last two years tho, much wetter than its ever been.  regardless I'm gonna make sure these durian stay watered constantly, whether by rain or drip irrigation. 

[Mike T]

If you haven't already got all your trees and are still selecting there are a few things to think about. Diversity of varieties helps with pollination. Having early and late varieties means you have a longer season. There is a fair bit of info on fruit comparisons, tree size, precocity etc on line but you can't always get what you want.

[Kona fruit farm]

Here are the durian trees I’m Planting.  (I guess it’s 23). Most came
From Mike Parker’s nursery here on the big island of Hawaii .   Here is the link to his website and description of the durians.  Some Are his own made up names but he gives the reason for the names here.

http://www.empiempi.us

[fruitlovers]

Thanks oscar and mike, 

the spacing is 25' by 25'   i know that's pushing it.... but hey. that's what i did.

as for drainage that's no problem whatsoever, plenty of rocks under these holes. and all the bottoms of the holes have been jackhammered like to 6' depth.  there is basically no possibility of standing water. 


in terms of dry conditions this year has even absolutely insane.. its rained almost every day... its a lush green tropical place at my farm now. But i know that could be a result of this year being off or maybe cause the volcano is not pumping out vog anymore i dunno.  Something seems to have changed in the weather patterns here over the last two years tho, much wetter than its ever been.  regardless I'm gonna make sure these durian stay watered constantly, whether by rain or drip irrigation.

Heard about all the rain on Kona side. If it stays rainy that would certainly help establish your durians. Unfortunately you can't count on it. Really the trend over the long term of last 20 years is less tradewinds, and less rain, not more. For very dry years you might consider setting up overhead micro misters. They are easy to plug into existing main drip line.

[Finca La Isla]

We use four living fence posts and attach 70% cloth to that.  Actually, once the glyrcidium get going you can just rely on controlling the shade by pruning.
The durian list is interesting.  As Mike said you want to have both early and late season fruits.  I recognize late durians but don’t see any I know to be early.  Kradomtong or the identical D-99 works very well for us as a high quality very early durian that will drop fruits about 95 days after the flowers open.  Having very early and late durians will double the length of your season.
Peter

[spaugh]

Im using 4 6ft T posts and 30% shade on my lychee starters.  Once they outgrow the cage it comes off for good.  Dont use wood, it rots.  Metal T posts last a lifetime, they are 5$ each and serve many purposes on your farm.  I doubt you would regret in investing in them.

I buy the shade cloth in 12ft x 144ft length, or whatever length you want and cut them into 12x12ft squares and they just tie right onto the t posts.

[happyhana]

How exciting to be planting! I hope to be where you’re at in 2 or 3 years, lots of work ahead, starting to clear and think about perimeter wall or fence.

Don’t wish to derail thread, a quick question, how tall and wide are your rock walls? What would you say is the minimum to keep pigs out? Did you just dump with a loader or need to also place by hand? Is there maybe a specific way to position rock that’s pigs don’t like?

[johnb51]

How exciting to be planting! I hope to be where you’re at in 2 or 3 years, lots of work ahead, starting to clear and think about perimeter wall or fence.

Don’t wish to derail thread, a quick question, how tall and wide are your rock walls? What would you say is the minimum to keep pigs out? Did you just dump with a loader or need to also place by hand? Is there maybe a specific way to position rock that’s pigs don’t like?

Yeah, are you sure it'll keep the pigs out?  Animals are so intelligent, resourceful, and persistent.  Often more clever than humans seem to realize!  (Pigs are more intelligent than dogs.)  But I wish you success.

[Kona fruit farm]

Hello everyone and thanks for the replies.   Yes I’m sure about the rock walls. They are 6’ tall all around the property and the ones that aren’t 6’ tall have a fence around them.  I haven’t seen a pig in my property ever since they were built about a year or so ago. 

As far as shade cages go I realize wood rots.   But honestly that’s ok.  I only need these shade cages for a year or so. Maybe less. Until the pigeon pea grows up tall enough to shade the durians.  And once the durians are 6’ tall or so I don’t think they’ll need much.  The sun is not super hot and strong in my area.   Temps are about 80 even during the summer days. 

I built two preliminary shade boxes as prototype.   The green mesh one I built first.  Then I tightened up the design on the second one (with black shade cloth).   I realize this type set up might not work for everyone.  But again I don’t have pigs/deer or wind.  So ID rather not pound t posts into the ground and then in a year I’ll have 80 bent up and rusty t posts.   

Cost wise this design was six 2x2’s.   $3 each.   So less than $20.  And 6’x12’ shade cloth off amazon also $20.   So total cost per box is $40.      The t posts here at Home Depot are $7 each.   So that’s an extra cost to go that route anyways.     Plus for me I like that I can pick this shade box up and move it if I need to weed around the tree or fix an irrigation line.   

Anyways.  Here we go. 

[Gone tropo]

Hello everyone and thanks for the replies.   Yes I’m sure about the rock walls. They are 6’ tall all around the property and the ones that aren’t 6’ tall have a fence around them.  I haven’t seen a pig in my property ever since they were built about a year or so ago. 

As far as shade cages go I realize wood rots.   But honestly that’s ok.  I only need these shade cages for a year or so. Maybe less. Until the pigeon pea grows up tall enough to shade the durians.  And once the durians are 6’ tall or so I don’t think they’ll need much.  The sun is not super hot and strong in my area.   Temps are about 80 even during the summer days. 

I built two preliminary shade boxes as prototype.   The green mesh one I built first.  Then I tightened up the design on the second one (with black shade cloth).   I realize this type set up might not work for everyone.  But again I don’t have pigs/deer or wind.  So ID rather not pound t posts into the ground and then in a year I’ll have 80 bent up and rusty t posts.   

Cost wise this design was six 2x2’s.   $3 each.   So less than $20.  And 6’x12’ shade cloth off amazon also $20.   So total cost per box is $40.      The t posts here at Home Depot are $7 each.   So that’s an extra cost to go that route anyways.     Plus for me I like that I can pick this shade box up and move it if I need to weed around the tree or fix an irrigation line.   

Anyways.  Here we go. 

This looks great however i think for the same cost you could have just used 3 or 4 star pickets made of steel either triangle or square around the tree and wrapped shade cloth around that.  When finised with it you can pull the star pickets out and use them again for other things they wont rot.  Thats what I have done for my mangosteen, rambutan and pualsan.

[spaugh]

T posts dont bend and rust, they're really heavy duty and will last decades.  Much easier than building frames.  And then can be used again over and over.

[Finca La Isla]

I read the link made by the Parker's and they sound very knowledgable.  Lucky to have people like that close by.  You are getting the early variety I mentioned, just another name.
The trees are costly though.  My nursery is also out of durians, we are germinating 400 seeds right now for the next season.
Suerte,
Peter

[pineislander]

4 stakes and shadecloth wrap around shelters to 4 ft high might be easier to manage than some other options. Treated pine 10ft poles with strong wire lines attached and shadecloth in a box like (2 sides and top) is used by some growers and it keeps out pests.Poles last ok in wet areas. It makes for a substantial structure. Rows can lend themselves to Tatura trellising if you wanted to pursue that option.

For 20 Achachairu trees I used 1 inch x 1 inch treated wood stakes and used shade cloth stapled on.

[Kona fruit farm]

oh wow pineisland... look at those beautiful mulch mounds... love it. 

I appreciate everyones input... part of the reason i don't personally wanna use the steel posts is because just outside the holes i excavated for the trees is rock  lots and lots of rock  big rocks.. and lava slabs..   so for all of you in other places in the world where driving a steel post into the ground is simple..... lets just say its not simple here. By default they bend a lot.   so by building free standing structure like i'm doing i don't have to drive anything into the ground for support..   this is my reasoning.    but yes.... if my ground was different it would be simpler using steel posts you guys are right about that. 

[Kona fruit farm]

Thanks for the research peter! its so funny i was just watching youtube videos about your farm.  Love the knowledge and experience you have..  i've got about 17 different varieties of durian in this collection of mine.. so i'm really hoping all of them will cross pollinate and by default some will be early and late season types.   fingers crossed.

[Mike T]

I just looked at your list and it seems to be well thought out with reliable big fruiting thai workhorses like monthong,gaan yeow,kradon and chanee something fancy but not heavy bearing in red prawn and some spice with suluk.MDUR88 is really D190 and could be something special. Oh yeah if your monthong is pomoho monthong it probably isn't monthong but still is good.
Your other species are interesting and hopefully they are good selections of those and nothing wrong with seedlings. I don't know some of those names as they are local.The durian universe has many stars o reach for. If you are still collecting maybe have some aspirational acquisitions like dulcis x zib the ridged ones, kut x zib, big fruiting dulcis, macrantha,laplaes, arancillo,gumpun,luang,penang88, musang king, and so many other glamorous varieties.

[Kona fruit farm]

I just looked at your list and it seems to be well thought out with reliable big fruiting thai workhorses like monthong,gaan yeow,kradon and chanee something fancy but not heavy bearing in red prawn and some spice with suluk.MDUR88 is really D190 and could be something special. Oh yeah if your monthong is pomoho monthong it probably isn't monthong but still is good.
Your other species are interesting and hopefully they are good selections of those and nothing wrong with seedlings. I don't know some of those names as they are local.The durian universe has many stars o reach for. If you are still collecting maybe have some aspirational acquisitions like dulcis x zib the ridged ones, kut x zib, big fruiting dulcis, macrantha,laplaes, arancillo,gumpun,luang,penang88, musang king, and so many other glamorous varieties.

Mike you are on it.  ID love some of those crosses.  Not sure where to get them.   I’m pretty stoked about eh suluk tho.  That’s a graveolens and zib cross right??    And Yeah red prawn is my fav durian I’ve ever had so I’m planting 3 of them.  Fingers crossed.   Honestly the black thorn is the only seedling I’m Planting.  It’s a seed a brought back from Malaysia 3 years ago.  The rest are grafted trees from mike.    (Besides the Wild durio sp).     Mike has his sights on some actual musang king graft material here in Hawaii. So that’s def in the list.    And ID love a real puang manee.  But I don’t think anyone in hawaii is actually in possession of the real thing.    A lot is misnamed grafted trees.  And of course ID live actual grafted black thorn.    But I’m hoping with the variety I have now that I have lots of success.   

[Finca La Isla]

In the last year I have planted about 15 durian seedlings. The range from 2 more graveleons, 2 Suluk, to some of my favorite Penang durians including red prawn, green skin, blackthorn, and others.
We have grafted musang king in CR as well as Chanee, MongThong, nokrachip, kradonthon  which seems to be the same as D-99.
It’s a multigenerational project. I’m planning on planting another 6 grafted and airlayered durians within the next month. We need to plant with the onset of a rainy season but no irrigation required.
Peter

[ben mango]

Curious about the origins of that "Suluk," kona. it may have been from a tree from Frankie's. Frank has a grafted graveolens that was fruiting on different occasions that I was there. I am not aware of him having any durio hybrid fruits though, nor anyone on Big Island (with fruiting trees)- for that you still have to go to Borneo. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Finca La Isla]

My suluk are seedlings from Borneo.  Most likely they are further crossed but you can get good stuff like that.  Some other planters and nurserymen have recently brought other grafted durian hybrids to CR so, we’ll see.
I get asked about what a small farm might plant for a commercial fruit crop.  My response has been that in CR; rambutan is the past, mangosteen is the present, and durian is the future.
Peter

[Mike T]

Yeah there are a few versions of suluk in southern Borneo according to my chums. My red prawn did alright last season and fruit were just as good as penang88 but they are not as productive of course. Some of these crosses I mentioned from Borneo I will need to post some pix of so people can see. The ridged cross between zib and dulcis is said to be great as is the kut x zib. Nothing wrong with seedlng and really most will be similar to the parent and take just a little longer and even overtake grafted one in productivity in the long term.
I reckon you will see a surprising difference in growth rates between the varieties. I have 5 good sized fruiting durians and 2 are flowering now. I have one more spot and its either big fruiting dulcis, kut x zib or dulcis x zib.