Sugarloaf vs. Piña Colada Mango

[johnb51]

Those of you who have tasted both, how would you compare the two?  What's the difference in flavor?  Which do you consider the better-tasting mango?  What about consistency in production and disease resistance?  Is Piña Colada a smaller, less vigorous, more manageable tree?  Are Sugarloaf trees showing moderate vigor?  Thanks.

[johnb51]

I know there are plenty of folks who have eaten both, so PLEASE comment.  This is one of those "if you had to choose between the two" questions--you know, limited space to plant small number of trees, but where ocean breeze is fairly constant, not an inland area.  I appreciate your help.

[bovine421]

John what are you doing to us. This is almost Mission Impossible. Pina Colada was so. I don't have words in my vocabulary to describe how deliciously excellent it was. I could swear I felt little granulars of sugar. Now that I just thought of how decadently awesome Sugarloaf is. I just fell off my ladder thanks so much.😜

[Malia]

Following. Same conditions as John here. I do not worry so much about diseases here close to ocean, rather space...
I read on TAF page that Sugarloaf is low to moderate vigor. Not much about Pina Colada: "slow growers with spreading, open canopy."
I thought maybe I should order a custom graft of both on one tree?

[johnb51]

Following. Same conditions as John here. I do not worry so much about diseases here close to ocean, rather space...
I read on TAF page that Sugarloaf is low to moderate vigor. Not much about Pina Colada: "slow growers with spreading, open canopy."
I thought maybe I should order a custom graft of both on one tree?

Yeah, that might be the way to go if they're considered compatible.

[bovine421]

Following. Same conditions as John here. I do not worry so much about diseases here close to ocean, rather space...
I read on TAF page that Sugarloaf is low to moderate vigor. Not much about Pina Colada: "slow growers with spreading, open canopy."
I thought maybe I should order a custom graft of both on one tree?

You might want to think about adding cotton candy to that cocktail. It is said to be late season. According to my wife they definitely pick the right name for that variety.

[simon_grow]

Both mangos are extremely good, either can be in the top three best tasting of the year when it is on. Pina Colada is a smaller fruit with a relatively fat seed but this mango has concentrated sweet and tart flavor. Pina Colada could have been given the name Sweet Tart and the name would be very fitting. Unlike many others, I rarely, if ever pick up any coconut flavor in my Pina Coladas even if I let it get super ripe. For me, I do pick up a lot of pineapple like tartness and extreme sweetness.

I believe Pina Colada is slower growing and I’ve heard multiple people reporting that their trees were very slow to get established.

E4/Sugarloaf fruit is bigger than PC based on the fruit ive sampled and E4 also has an excellent sugar acid balance although I feel it has less of the acidic component compared to PC. I definitely do taste the Coconut in E4 but only when picked ripe and allowed to ripen, at least in my taste experience.

The issue with E4 is that it is very difficult to pick E4 at the correct ripeness level because it stays green when ripe. The fist 10 or so E4s I ever ate were picked too early and half of them were not sweet at all, kinda rubbery inside and the other half were somewhat sweet, had good acidity but had absolutely no coconut flavor. Based on my first sampling’s, I was not at all impressed with E4 but I kept hearing about the rave reviews so I kept trying them until I tasted one that blew my mind.

When I tasted the first E4 that was picked at the proper stage of ripeness, it was super sweet, had excellent acidity and it also had the strongest Coconut flavor I have ever detected in any mango I have ever eaten. There is some fiber in this mango but it is so good that I ignored the fiber.

I hate, hate, hate fiber and I told myself I would not plant a mango with noticeable fiber but when you taste something as good as a properly picked and ripened E4, it will change your mind.

I’m planting out some E4 seedlings and hope to get lucky with a clone of Zygotic seedling that tastes similar but with less fibers.

If you want a mango with more Coconut flavor, are ok with some fiber and don’t mind the difficulties with picking green mangos, go with E4.

If you want strong sweet/tart balance and don’t mind a smaller fruit with a fat seed and a tree that may be more slow to get established, get a Pina Colada.

If I could only get one, I’d get an E4 and graft Pina Colada on the dominant vertical branch.

Simon

[Squam256]

Piña Colada is a lot more disease prone than Sugarloaf when it comes to anthracnose and PM. I like them both equally in terms of flavor despite the differences between them. Sugarloaf is likely to be the better long-term performer for backyard growers in terms of production.

I suppose Piña Colada is a “slower” grower. They flush at about the same rate but Pina Colada has shorter internodal spacing between the leaves.

[johnb51]

Piña Colada is a lot more disease prone than Sugarloaf when it comes to anthracnose and PM. I like them both equally in terms of flavor despite the differences between them. Sugarloaf is likely to be the better long-term performer for backyard growers in terms of production.

I suppose Piña Colada is a “slower” grower. They flush at about the same rate but Pina Colada has shorter internodal spacing between the leaves.

Do you agree with Simon that Sugarloaf has a lot more coconut flavor?

[Malia]

Alex, thank you for the info! Since we have you here... What is the vigor of guava mango, and do you recommend it to backyard growers? I did my homework and know the production is mediocre, but I wonder how big the tree will grow.

[johnb51]

Alex, thank you for the info! Since we have you here... What is the vigor of guava mango, and do you recommend it to backyard growers? I did my homework and know the production is mediocre, but I wonder how big the tree will grow.

He can only answer your question if he answers mine first!

[Malia]

Alex, thank you for the info! Since we have you here... What is the vigor of guava mango, and do you recommend it to backyard growers? I did my homework and know the production is mediocre, but I wonder how big the tree will grow.

He can only answer your question if he answers mine first!

I imagine life must be hard with such celebrity status for Alex.

[Malia]

Following. Same conditions as John here. I do not worry so much about diseases here close to ocean, rather space...
I read on TAF page that Sugarloaf is low to moderate vigor. Not much about Pina Colada: "slow growers with spreading, open canopy."
I thought maybe I should order a custom graft of both on one tree?

You might want to think about adding cotton candy to that cocktail. It is said to be late season. According to my wife they definitely pick the right name for that variety.

Interesting idea. Will the 3 match in terms of vigor? I def don't want a Frankenstein tree.

[bovine421]

Following. Same conditions as John here. I do not worry so much about diseases here close to ocean, rather space...
I read on TAF page that Sugarloaf is low to moderate vigor. Not much about Pina Colada: "slow growers with spreading, open canopy."
I thought maybe I should order a custom graft of both on one tree?

You might want to think about adding cotton candy to that cocktail. It is said to be late season. According to my wife they definitely pick the right name for that variety.

Interesting idea. Will the 3 match in terms of vigor? I def don't want a Frankenstein tree.

Well maybe you should order two trees! Pina Colada and Sugarloaf.Plus a  M- 4 / Cotton Candy.
How many folks on this forum have ever stopped at just ordering one tree?

[Malia]

Lol, I will order more for sure. I am just at the stage of defining the optimal set. I am also approaching a decision to switch completely to mangos. I have so much failure with other fruit. With mangos in my area, the procedure is: plant, forget, come back in 3 years to pick fruit. Well, almost that and I hope I am not saying it at the wrong moment.
Currently, I have Valencia pride and Maha fruiting. Excalibur and Pickering too young to fruit. Orange Sherbet waits patiently in a pot until I cut down that hideous areca palm. If I really focus on mangoes I have space for 6 more trees, but this would be a big stretch.

[bovine421]

Lol, I will order more for sure. I am just at the stage of defining the optimal set. I am also approaching a decision to switch completely to mangos. I have so much failure with other fruit. With mangos in my area, the procedure is: plant, forget, come back in 3 years to pick fruit. Well, almost that and I hope I am not saying it at the wrong moment.
Currently, I have Valencia pride and Maha fruiting. Excalibur and Pickering too young to fruit. Orange Sherbet waits patiently in a pot until I cut down that hideous areca palm. If I really focus on mangoes I have space for 6 more trees, but this would be a big stretch.

In that case let me throw this out there  a Juliet with Buxton spice grafted onto it. I'll buy the first 30 lb

[johnb51]

Stop!  Can we talk about Sugarloaf vs. Piña Colada??

[bovine421]

Stop!  Can we talk about Sugarloaf vs. Piña Colada??

Okay John my Sugarloaf seems moderately vigorous, like my orange Sherbert but not quite as vigorous as M-4 dagnabbit we're supposed to be talking about pina colada. Sorry I lost my focus again. I'm still a little disoriented from falling off the ladder. I have not had any issues with anthracnose on Sugarloaf here in the interior. I will leave Pina Colada for the professional Coastal folks.

[JulianoGS]

Sugarloaf is the bomb!

[JakeFruit]

I have Sweet Tart, Sugarloaf, Lemon Zest and Guava all grafted on the same rootstock. They are all about the same vigor, which is fairly/very vigorous. All have long internodes. Sugarloaf and Sweet Tart look very similar in terms of leaf shape (broad, sigmoid/rounded) and leaf spacing (a leaf every 3-4"). Lemon Zest seems to branch more readily, denser growth, leaf is narrower and seems longer than ST/SL, but leaf spacing is similar. Guava is pretty distinct from the others. Each internode is nothing but branch for ~8" and then the leaves are clustered 2" or less apart before the next node. Guava leaves are shaped similar to LZ, maybe slightly broader and longer.

All that said, if Piña Colada is indeed a slow grower, I think putting it on the same tree with Sugarloaf and trying to keep them equal would be difficult over time. Sugarloaf would win the growth-race.

[Julie]

I’ve tasted both and prefer sugarloaf.

[bovine421]

I have Sweet Tart, Sugarloaf, Lemon Zest and Guava all grafted on the same rootstock. They are all about the same vigor, which is fairly/very vigorous. All have long internodes. Sugarloaf and Sweet Tart look very similar in terms of leaf shape (broad, sigmoid/rounded) and leaf spacing (a leaf every 3-4"). Lemon Zest seems to branch more readily, denser growth, leaf is narrower and seems longer than ST/SL, but leaf spacing is similar. Guava is pretty distinct from the others. Each internode is nothing but branch for ~8" and then the leaves are clustered 2" or less apart before the next node. Guava leaves are shaped similar to LZ, maybe slightly broader and longer.

All that said, if Piña Colada is indeed a slow grower, I think putting it on the same tree with Sugarloaf and trying to keep them equal would be difficult over time. Sugarloaf would win the growth-race.

Exactly! That's what I was insinuating by throwing Cotton Candy into the mix. Cotton candy would probably be a better choice vigor wise. Cocktail tree wise I would think that Dwarf Hawaiian and Pina Colada would be a better match. Since I don't have a Pina Colada to observe that is pure speculation.

[johnb51]

I'd like to hear Rob's opinion.  He'll probably say they're totally different, and you can't compare them!  That's okay.  Just describe the flavors, and say which one is better.  Also, Alex, what about the coconut flavor element?

[Squam256]

Piña Colada is a lot more disease prone than Sugarloaf when it comes to anthracnose and PM. I like them both equally in terms of flavor despite the differences between them. Sugarloaf is likely to be the better long-term performer for backyard growers in terms of production.

I suppose Piña Colada is a “slower” grower. They flush at about the same rate but Pina Colada has shorter internodal spacing between the leaves.

Do you agree with Simon that Sugarloaf has a lot more coconut flavor?

Yes. In fact, Pina Colada at “normal” ripe stage tastes closer to Dot, in a good way. The “Piña Colada” flavor doesn’t shine until it’s on the more ripe side.

[johnb51]

Thanks, Alex.