Author Topic: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY  (Read 10640 times)

digigarden

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2022, 07:39:40 AM »


Had to :P

johnb51

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2022, 10:13:22 AM »
These 2 people live near each other ? This issue should have been sorted out bare knuckle on someones orchard old school.
The Aussie way!  Getting to the heart of the matter.  No whining.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2022, 10:15:25 AM by johnb51 »
John

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #52 on: January 31, 2022, 10:29:26 AM »
Ive talked to a few people who told me they've never received their orders or a refund from fruitlovers.

Corycourtney

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #53 on: January 31, 2022, 10:32:11 AM »
Oscar has a history of unprofessional business practices. I’ve known multiple people with IOU’s that were never fulfilled. He’s the only person I’ve ever dealt with on the forums or otherwise that has custom printed IOU’s ready to go. He also doesn’t send any sort of undated invoice stating what is missing. He confirmed my order via email and then when I received it half my order was missing. Asked for a refund and only got a partial. His word against mine essentially and I got scammed 36$. Pretty sure Oscar owes thousands of dollars in unpaid seeds over the years of this practice. I know a few people who never received IOU seeds that don’t want to speak out for fear of being treated like Ollie is being treated here.

It’s a shame he’s well respected and well liked in the community. He seems knowledgeable. But his business sense isn’t great.

« Last Edit: January 31, 2022, 10:39:54 AM by Corycourtney »

Corycourtney

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #54 on: January 31, 2022, 10:36:20 AM »
You joined with the specific (sole?) intent to complain about a failed transaction, having nothing to do with TFF, that happened 4 years ago, correct? That's going to be unpopular for several reasons. We are a community, this is not Ripoff Report (https://www.ripoffreport.com/); you have outside beef, best to keep it outside. You want to join the community to learn, contribute, transact with other members, you are welcome. You want to get in-touch with a member through this forum, try sending them a Private Message or two, first. Going straight to starting a thread with a title like yours as your first communication, calling out a member for over a decade by their full name on a public forum, it's not going to be popular.

Actually it does have to do with TFF if you guys still have him listed on the seeds page as a vendor to order from? That kind of gives TFF’s stamp of approval saying he’s one of the good guys? Unless i’m mistaken?


ben mango

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2022, 10:54:08 AM »
He’s not active on his part of the island in the nursery or farmers market scene. He damages his reputation with other fruit growers around the Hawaii islands. How many people has he burned over the years?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2022, 11:00:47 AM by ben mango »

digigarden

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2022, 11:03:31 AM »
 ??? this is all new to me as my experience with fruitlovers is good. ordered from him many times over the years. everything arrived and over 90% germination of seeds.

Bush2Beach

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2022, 12:51:41 PM »
Why would it be suspect to not want to publicly call you out for 3 years, when your policy states that sometimes you don’t send the seeds for 3-4 years?
2 bad years of monkey jack production and so no seeds available to send him right?

It is your policy of not completely fulfilling the order and taking money for a product you are not sending in that moment that is the issue.
So change your policy of thiefing people’s money without sending the product, or explain why this keeps happening?

I don’t give a shit if I order car parts, marbles, or dog onesies. Bottom line : if you don’t send me what I payed for, refund me or your thiefing.
Nickle and dime thiefing, skimming thiefing, pinch a sack thiefing or bank robbery is all different levels of taking someone else money yo! 

I don’t ever want to see a purchase of anything that say’s “2 of 5” , when I bought 5.
Where are the other 3?

This policy has been in question for years by your customers and I have yet to see a change or a respectable response.
Noone should be put in this position as a means to recover their stolen  funds.
You don’t want to admit to yourself that it’s stealing by saying your defamed ?
What is it called then when you keep the money and never send the product?

When you are so entrenched in something it’s that much harder to admit because you have been justifying it to yourself for so long . But that don’t make it right.
 




I have ordered seeds from Oscar multiple times over the years and they always appear to be correct and well packaged.  My only complaint is that sometimes he lists things as available he doesn't actually have for sale *right now* but I think he is a great resource and a trustworthy seller.  If you really feel you are being ripped off you always have the paypal dispute options, but I suspect that he will get back to you before it comes to that
If he really thought i was a thief he would have tried to get a refund from Paypal many years ago. Isn't there something suspect in that he waits 3 or 4 years to gripe about this. I wonder what his real beef is?

roblack

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2022, 01:49:49 PM »
Thank you bush2beach I appreciate your defense and yes exactly i have nothing to gain from this (im a buyer collector not a seller i have a 9ac farm of hundreds of tropical fruits)  and  of course i would have preferred to handle this privately i tried to but he deleted my comment and blocked me from communication this is the back lash of treating a customer like that…
Rob i believe i had the same user name but ill be honest like i said i have not been on site for a few years and iv only bought seeds from one seller on here so no i not super active on this site not sure why that matters and you say no one knows me and sure you and most dont but some do. And they know im a serious collector but again should not matter + i live in hawaii so much more active on HTFG fb page
Its funny to me that i feel like i have to defend myself on this topic im just speaking truths to help other not end up in the same fate or at least buy w caution
I know exactly who Oscar is i  know his farm and and a lot of the things he grows we have a lot of the same friends hence why i was almost going to say nothing and just eat the $200 to avoid rocking the boat but when he chose to delete and block for simply asking for a refund it rubbed me the wrong way he could have literally told me anything like sorry let me check records or sorry i thought i send those seeds but by blocking me and deleting my comment tells me you are keep my money!

The reason I inquire is, anyone can join the forum and claim anything about anyone. You joined with a flame thread. Some dubious posts and threads pop up from time to time.

Thunderdome!

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2022, 03:08:23 PM »
Thank you Brad for speaking up and thank you for your recommendations hopefully some of these previous commenters can see im not the only one who has had issues.
Surly there two side to ever story id love Oscar to come in here and explain why he deleted my request for a refund and decided to Block a customer from asking a question… im here all ears! :)
I've been sending seeds to people for over 30 years. So is it any surprise to you that of the many hundreds (or is it thousands) of packages i've sent that some people are not satisfied? Fortunatlely most customers don't wait 4 years to complain about something, to air their dirty laundry, or to try to defame me by calling me a thief. I don't take this lightly. I don't need to steal from anybody. Also i have proof that all items were either sent or refunded to you. Unlike you Ollie i keep a record of all my transactions.

I wasnt satisfied because I was buying 12$ a piece scions X 5, and a 50$ CA inspection fee.  Which I question if it actually is spent on inspection?  Mwybe but I dont see any kind of inspection stamp or documentation showing the extra 50$ went to CA inspection. 

So since Im about to drop 110$ on 5 scions, I want them overnighted or 2nd day air whatever, expedite them so Im not wasting 110$ on scions.  So you told me sure you can do that and charge another 50$ for postage.  So now Im at 160$ for 5 scions.  I expect them to come in a day or 2 or even 3.  Then you ship them middle of the week in a standard 8$ flat rate box.  Everyone knows to ship the scions Monday maybe tuesday.  If you are in Hawaii its probably safest to do Monday.  So then a week goes by and I get my scions.  They arent wrapped in tape, buds are non existent.  The worst 12$ piece of budwood ever.  So then Im like why did I just pay so much for?  Why should I even have to pay anything when the whole point of paying for expedited shipping was so my overpriced scions dont show up a week later looking like dead twigs.  So then you tell me its because of covid.  So if you knew covid was causing delays etc why would you take extra money from me in the first place for regular shipping.  And then not do rushed shipping?  Of course Im not satisfied with that, it was all bad. 

Luckily I know what Im doing and did the grafts on trees in pots and kept them protected in my garage for a month and a half a few of the grafts did take and now I have the trees growing in the ground.  So it worked out in the end but you can see how I would feel geeting week old scions that cost 30$ a piece!  Most expensive and worst looking scions ever. 
Brad Spaugh

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #60 on: January 31, 2022, 04:29:57 PM »
These 2 people live near each other ? This issue should have been sorted out bare knuckle on someones orchard old school.

haha straight up

Ollie510

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #61 on: January 31, 2022, 04:40:28 PM »
Well there you have it ladies and gentlemen you heard it from the horse’s mouth, Fruit Lovers Nursery! “Where asking for a refund will be considered harassment” i rest my case!

O and on one last note I forgot to add to this story few months ago a mutual friend was to Oscars and i was on the phone w friend i asked friend to ask oscar about my refund his line was “everyone’s alway after me” lol

Thank you to everyone for backing me up and to those who were questioning and doubting me i wish you the best All Aloha Vibes!
-ollie

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #62 on: January 31, 2022, 04:47:37 PM »
“I've been sending seeds to people for over 30 years. So is it any surprise to you that of the many hundreds (or is it thousands) of packages i've sent that some people are not satisfied? Fortunatlely most customers don't wait 4 years to complain about something, to air their dirty laundry, or to try to defame me by calling me a thief. I don't take this lightly. I don't need to steal from anybody. Also i have proof that all items were either sent or refunded to you. Unlike you Ollie i keep a record of all my transactions.”


30 years of skimming off the top and not figuring out a way to avoid these kinds of situations by actually SENDING records for people to keep!!!! Blaming people for something you never did from the start. My case was your word against mine because I had no updated invoice just pictures of what was missing, and you couldn’t even get that refund right. That was immediately after I saw what kind of business practices you employ, not after 3 years. You still couldn’t even complete our transaction. Trying to gaslight people who have the same exact story over and over again, shame on you.

Satya

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #63 on: January 31, 2022, 04:49:41 PM »
I only had a onetime transaction with Oscar/fruitlovers. It was in July 2020 via facebook messenger. I saw him mention having different selected varieties of caimito in a fb post so i messaged him if he has scions for sale. He responded and gave his rate which was $6 per scion and minimum 5 scions. I was thankful to him for getting back. He asked $25 for shipping and handling. I said i ship mango scions wrapped in buddy tape and charge $8 usps priority and they reach well so is it usps or some other hawaii mail he was using? He said it is usps priority box.  I honestly did not know how shipping happens via hawaii to mainland, so i thought maybe it is some special procedure of handling, and paid him via paypal. I then thought i would add some seeds in the same package as $25 might be a medium priority box instead of a small box. He said, ‘no, seeds are handled separately and they will be in a different package'. I said ok, and up to this point i was ok to get some select scions for extra shipping cost. Where it got difficult for me was when i requested he ship on a Monday of any week, he said “sorry, i can’t guarantee ship date of the week, i need to process orders in the order they are received". Then i told him i work out of state and need them shipped on certain dates so they arrive within a certain timeframe. I was in no rush to get them shipped asap even after paying for them but i needed them shipped at a certain future date, next week or week after on any Monday and he said he is unable to do that. Then i asked for a refund and he refunded without any hiccups.


So i am not sure what to say, i did not have a transaction, i am not sure how the scions would have arrived but i certainly had a bad taste in my mouth from the “no transaction” i had. I thought he is either a very busy seller who has to make a living through selling seeds, so a lot of transactions to handle, or a very non- accommodating person overcharging for shipping. In either case, I have not felt like buying from him again. I met a forum member up north who had purchased a lot of seeds for his biodynamic farm from Oscar and had a pretty good experience through and through, so he was surprised when i had mentioned my experience to him.


In my experience being here in forum i have come across a spectrum of sellers and buyers, sellers who gradually became friends who now refuse to accept money but want to trade seeds/cuttings and sellers who have ghosted me after a package they'd sent got lost in transit without any attempt to solve the situation; have seen buyers who are very thankful and buyers who don’t give a shit how much you went beyond your comfort zone to make their whole buying process smooth and ensure their seeds and scions reach well ( my recent brazil seed transaction was an example of that). So for the last couple of years i have maintained a list of the forum members of nasty, ungrateful, rude, obtuse ones, and so i don’t sell to them and don’t buy from them.


People change over time, learn their mistakes so i hope whatever you went through can be remedied, hopefully you and Oscar can come to an agreement and hope he can be a bit more accommodating to us here. After all, i feel we are a small community of fruit growers and can relate and act like part of one big family helping each other grow plants and grow ourselves in the process.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2022, 05:20:16 PM by Satya »

cuban007

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #64 on: January 31, 2022, 04:51:56 PM »
Lol,
Had to come out of hiatus for this one
This has been going on for years
The mods, who always defend this guy, should look back and see how many peeps have complained about this guy
« Last Edit: February 03, 2022, 06:59:40 AM by cuban007 »

Corycourtney

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #65 on: January 31, 2022, 04:53:02 PM »
Thank you Brad for speaking up and thank you for your recommendations hopefully some of these previous commenters can see im not the only one who has had issues.
Surly there two side to ever story id love Oscar to come in here and explain why he deleted my request for a refund and decided to Block a customer from asking a question… im here all ears! :)
I've been sending seeds to people for over 30 years. So is it any surprise to you that of the many hundreds (or is it thousands) of packages i've sent that some people are not satisfied? Fortunatlely most customers don't wait 4 years to complain about something, to air their dirty laundry, or to try to defame me by calling me a thief. I don't take this lightly. I don't need to steal from anybody. Also i have proof that all items were either sent or refunded to you. Unlike you Ollie i keep a record of all my transactions.

30 years of skimming off the top and not figuring out a way to avoid these kinds of situations by actually SENDING records for people to keep!!!! Blaming people for something you never did from the start. My case was your word against mine because I had no updated invoice just pictures of what was missing, and you couldn’t even get that refund right. That was immediately after I saw what kind of business practices you employ, not after 3 years. You still couldn’t even complete our transaction. Trying to gaslight people who have the same exact story over and over again, shame on you.

Corycourtney

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #66 on: January 31, 2022, 05:14:13 PM »
Those of you dogging on Ollie for not knowing who he is, can’t say that about me. My name is literally my username. I’m active in different amounts all over, particularly Facebook (I’m a moderator on Facebook Exotic Fruit Growers w/14k members). I’ve got nothing to hide from anyone if this thread is going to be about taking on an accusers credibility. I’ve got nothing to really gain by lying about a bad review of his business that still has me shorted 36$. Just a warning that he’s the only person I’ve dealt with that does business in this way.

If he’s keeping records he needs to send updated invoices of the missing stuff, that’s the end of story. If  he’s able to have custom IOU stickers for his orders he can print an extra piece of paper that is updated to reflect what is missing. Easy. Instead he keeps this system of his word against yours, despite this same issue coming up time and time again.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2022, 05:29:23 PM by Corycourtney »

johnb51

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #67 on: February 01, 2022, 10:11:18 AM »
Very useful to potential buyers that all this came to light.  Good job, Ollie.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2022, 02:02:24 PM by johnb51 »
John

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #68 on: February 01, 2022, 04:53:18 PM »
Guys,

Oscar is probably one of the top five people that contributed to the tropical fruit knowledge and sharing the past 20 years.

I read all the comments and I also felt it as well. It seems to me like the seeds business isn't a priority for Oscar and some people got hurt.

Oscar,
First I will say, thank you for the knowledge and seeds you shared with the world over the past 20+ years! You are a hero!
Like in any business, customers are expecting 100% satisfaction and it seems like there is room to improve on how you manage the orders. Let us know once you do that and I'm certain that most of us will resume buying seeds again and honor all the information you shared with us.

Itay

Raulglezruiz

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #69 on: February 01, 2022, 05:32:56 PM »
Guys,

Oscar is probably one of the top five people that contributed to the tropical fruit knowledge and sharing the past 20 years.

I read all the comments and I also felt it as well. It seems to me like the seeds business isn't a priority for Oscar and some people got hurt.

Oscar,
First I will say, thank you for the knowledge and seeds you shared with the world over the past 20+ years! You are a hero!
Like in any business, customers are expecting 100% satisfaction and it seems like there is room to improve on how you manage the orders. Let us know once you do that and I'm certain that most of us will resume buying seeds again and honor all the information you shared with us.

Itay
+++1 😀
El verde es vida!

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #70 on: February 01, 2022, 05:38:15 PM »
You joined with the specific (sole?) intent to complain about a failed transaction, having nothing to do with TFF, that happened 4 years ago, correct? That's going to be unpopular for several reasons. We are a community, this is not Ripoff Report (https://www.ripoffreport.com/); you have outside beef, best to keep it outside. You want to join the community to learn, contribute, transact with other members, you are welcome. You want to get in-touch with a member through this forum, try sending them a Private Message or two, first. Going straight to starting a thread with a title like yours as your first communication, calling out a member for over a decade by their full name on a public forum, it's not going to be popular.

Actually it does have to do with TFF if you guys still have him listed on the seeds page as a vendor to order from? That kind of gives TFF’s stamp of approval saying he’s one of the good guys? Unless i’m mistaken?

Actually, it doesn't. TFF isn't a business. It's a community-driven forum, nobody (mods or otherwise) is paid for their time or efforts. Getting listed as a seller is not an endorsement of any kind; vendor approval seemingly consists of having a semi-functioning website and sending a PM request to be listed. TFF makes nothing and approves of no one; deals are arranged between members of their own accord. It's a laissez faire kinda place, and caveat emptor should always be the expectation.

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #71 on: February 01, 2022, 08:27:02 PM »
You joined with the specific (sole?) intent to complain about a failed transaction, having nothing to do with TFF, that happened 4 years ago, correct? That's going to be unpopular for several reasons. We are a community, this is not Ripoff Report (https://www.ripoffreport.com/); you have outside beef, best to keep it outside. You want to join the community to learn, contribute, transact with other members, you are welcome. You want to get in-touch with a member through this forum, try sending them a Private Message or two, first. Going straight to starting a thread with a title like yours as your first communication, calling out a member for over a decade by their full name on a public forum, it's not going to be popular.

Actually it does have to do with TFF if you guys still have him listed on the seeds page as a vendor to order from? That kind of gives TFF’s stamp of approval saying he’s one of the good guys? Unless i’m mistaken?

Actually, it doesn't. TFF isn't a business. It's a community-driven forum, nobody (mods or otherwise) is paid for their time or efforts. Getting listed as a seller is not an endorsement of any kind; vendor approval seemingly consists of having a semi-functioning website and sending a PM request to be listed. TFF makes nothing and approves of no one; deals are arranged between members of their own accord. It's a laissez faire kinda place, and caveat emptor should always be the expectation.

Probably a good caveat to have on that post. That you don’t vet or endorse the people you have in you pinned post at the top of the page as the first thing you see when you enter the forums seed page? I mean he’s literally the first person listed in this forum.. to say people, myself included, haven’t been led to his business as an endorsement here is silly. Plenty of forums have endorsements for other sites, why would anyone expect it to be different here?

At any rate, TFF isn’t on trial here. Oscar and his business, Fruitlovers are. Sharing knowledge about a vendor so people don’t get burned seems to be within the function of a forum like this. I would hope that is something we’d foster here is a community that can hold its own accountable…

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #72 on: February 02, 2022, 10:25:27 AM »
I don't think you are understanding who "you" is here, 'cause it ain't me. Most of the old ones who started it all have attained a higher plane; one or two may arise in times of great need, but it's largely up to us as community to carry on what they started so long ago. Me, I'm just a guy that's good with tech and hates seeing forum spam. I provided some assistance with the site last year and offered to police spam accounts to give back to TFF. The members have helped me so much over the last few years with my trees, I'm doing what I can to give something back. This is a special place on the internet for most of us.

Oscar is the top listing because he "literally" was the first nursery to be added. Your member number is 34,023...his is 60. This isn't saying "know your place, junior" but he's freely given a shit load of time to this forum over the years. Calling him a thief without some hard receipts backing your case is suspect, at best. Nobody should be calling anyone on TFF a thief, for that matter, with only anger and hearsay backing the claim. I've read over a fair amount of transactions that didn't go smoothly, but most seemed to have more or less worked out between the buyer and seller. Prompt communication is key, as is paying with PayPal and never using the Friends & Family option so you can get a refund.

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #73 on: February 02, 2022, 10:33:13 AM »
Unfortunately, I had similar issues.  I can understand people not wanting to say anything expecting the response from colleagues.  However, this is the buy and sell forum and we should be making members aware of circumstances that could affect their buying decisions. 
I sincerely hope that Oscar fixes whatever the problem is, however, until that time I thank Ollie for being brave enough to bring this issue to us.

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Re: THIEVES IN THE COMMUNITY
« Reply #74 on: February 02, 2022, 12:39:44 PM »
Unfortunately, I had similar issues.  I can understand people not wanting to say anything expecting the response from colleagues.  However, this is the buy and sell forum and we should be making members aware of circumstances that could affect their buying decisions. 
I sincerely hope that Oscar fixes whatever the problem is, however, until that time I thank Ollie for being brave enough to bring this issue to us.
You say you had similar issues, but you resolved it by communicating with Oscar on the sales thread for the seeds you ordered, correct? From what I can see in the thread, you made Oscar aware of your issue on June 14th and the last post is you thanking him for resolving the issue on June 16th. He didn't make off with your money and he didn't ghost you, right? If so, that doesn't validate Ollie's story of Oscar the thief. You communicated the issue on the sales thread with Oscar, so now future buyers are far more likely to read over your experience there and make an informed choice. The situation was handled correctly, well done.