Author Topic: Seedling Ross Sapotes and Canistels  (Read 1391 times)

Mike T

  • Zone 12a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8900
  • Cairns,Nth Qld, Australia
    • Zone 12a
    • View Profile
Seedling Ross Sapotes and Canistels
« on: April 17, 2021, 05:29:05 AM »

So what happens when you grow a Ross Sapote seedling? I have seen many seedlings and had a fruiting seedling for lots of years and have also tried the originals which are grafted. How true are they?
They are very true in every way except fruit shape of seedlings is sometimes a little more elongated than spherical although some trees have both shapes. I have seen a much larger fruited seedling also. The taste and moisture of the flesh is the same as original grafted Ross. They dont cross with canistel even when next to each other. So how do they compare to the best canistels? Canistels vary and sweeter moister types are far more palatable than drier ones with a flavour profile more in the direction of sweet potato and pumpkin. Ironically some of the biggest types with perfect yellow skin are not the best dessert fruit.
Ross Sapotes are just a bit more tasty than the best canistels in my opinion. There is a smokey honey taste canistels cant match, they are moister and sweeter. So why would anyone grow a canistel instead of a Ross? It beats the sh.... daylights outa me. My Bruno canistel is pretty good however and I will be keeping it.

brian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3281
    • Pennsylvania (zone 6) w/ heated greenhouse
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Ross Sapotes and Canistels
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2021, 11:02:18 AM »
Good to hear they come so true.

I have a grafted Bruce canistel in my greenhouse that I hope will fruit next year.  I tried canistel in Hawaii once and loved it.  Also have a Ross sapote seedling in a container but I have never tried the fruit.  How long did yours take to fruit from seed?   

bsbullie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9621
    • USA, Boynton Beach, FL 33472, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Ross Sapotes and Canistels
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2021, 11:08:27 AM »
While the Bruce produces a nice large fruit, it is one of the drier mealy textured canistels.  From what is available in the States, Fairchild 2, Trompo and Aurea are the best selections.   I will definitely add the Ross to the list but I keep it separate as its not a named variety of canistel.
- Rob

Future

  • The Future
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2025
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Ross Sapotes and Canistels
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2021, 04:06:43 PM »

So what happens when you grow a Ross Sapote seedling? I have seen many seedlings and had a fruiting seedling for lots of years and have also tried the originals which are grafted. How true are they?
They are very true in every way except fruit shape of seedlings is sometimes a little more elongated than spherical although some trees have both shapes. I have seen a much larger fruited seedling also. The taste and moisture of the flesh is the same as original grafted Ross. They dont cross with canistel even when next to each other. So how do they compare to the best canistels? Canistels vary and sweeter moister types are far more palatable than drier ones with a flavour profile more in the direction of sweet potato and pumpkin. Ironically some of the biggest types with perfect yellow skin are not the best dessert fruit.
Ross Sapotes are just a bit more tasty than the best canistels in my opinion. There is a smokey honey taste canistels cant match, they are moister and sweeter. So why would anyone grow a canistel instead of a Ross? It beats the sh.... daylights outa me. My Bruno canistel is pretty good however and I will be keeping it.

Good to hear. I have a Ross seedling that grew through a cloth pot so itís gonna stay where it is in the front yard. If it replicates the Ross is the boss flavor profile....great.

Ulfr

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 336
    • Brisbane Australia
    • View Profile
    • Practical Primate
Re: Seedling Ross Sapotes and Canistels
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2021, 05:05:04 PM »
I have really liked Aurea and Bruno canistels, yet to try a Ross. The other canistels Iíve had are a bit dry though if I didnít know of the better types I wouldnít mind.

Mike do you know the origin of Bruno? I got a grafted tree from Steve recently after trying the fruit a while back and liking it a lot.

« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 05:19:00 PM by Ulfr »

Julie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 507
    • Miami, FL, Zone 10B
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Ross Sapotes and Canistels
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2021, 11:11:00 PM »
For home gardener yes I agree with you 100%, Ross is much better than canistel. However in my area canistel is more productive than Ross, grows faster and fruits faster and also is a heavy fruit (commercial farmers are paid per pound for wholesale orders). I believe for these reasons canistel is more prevalent.

I just planted a tiny Ross today in my yard and Iím excited for this great source of winter fruit!

Mike T

  • Zone 12a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8900
  • Cairns,Nth Qld, Australia
    • Zone 12a
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Ross Sapotes and Canistels
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2021, 01:19:35 AM »
I found Ross to be a heavier bearer than canistel with multiple crops a year and larger crops each time. My canistel bears only once and sometimes twice a year. Perhaps this is different in different climates.

Mike T

  • Zone 12a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8900
  • Cairns,Nth Qld, Australia
    • Zone 12a
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Ross Sapotes and Canistels
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2021, 04:16:54 AM »
I have been asked a few times now as to my opinion on whether Ross Sapotes are a variety of Pouteria campechiana, the canistel and whether seedlings are a new types that shouldn't be called Ross Sapote any more. Ross Sapote should be pumpkin shaped?
In the absence of a genetic analysis and knowing the definition of species is rubbery and changing, especially for fruits in cultivation we can still make an informed observation. The seeds are distinctive and the foliage is recognisably different. The evidence is that Ross and Canistel do not cross and that perhaps is the key. Closely related species can often hybridize and if these two cannot it suggests distinctiveness so yeah it looks like they are different species.
Is a Ross Sapote seedling still a Ross Sapote? It depends on how true they are and how significant a character small changes in fruit shape are. Jacks, durians, many cultivated anoona and citrus are not super dooper true and calling them seedlings of or naming a new variety is probably justified at times. That is within reason as thousands of new varieties with tiny variations wouldnt work. I think Ross is true enough from seed to still be called Ross and the difference being a slight variation in fruit shape (which is not a great diagnostic character) could mean it is best to call them Ross Seedling so to reduce confusion.

Mike T

  • Zone 12a
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8900
  • Cairns,Nth Qld, Australia
    • Zone 12a
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Ross Sapotes and Canistels
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2021, 04:25:08 AM »


Oh yeah nearly forgot about this. Seedling Ross like this one I posted a few years ago can have bigger fruit than the standard and here is an example from a Ross seedling with large flattened fruit.

fruitlovers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15883
  • www.fruitlovers.com
    • USA, Big Island, East Hawaii, Zone 13a
    • View Profile
    • Fruit Lover's Nursery
Re: Seedling Ross Sapotes and Canistels
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2021, 04:55:20 AM »
I have been asked a few times now as to my opinion on whether Ross Sapotes are a variety of Pouteria campechiana, the canistel and whether seedlings are a new types that shouldn't be called Ross Sapote any more. Ross Sapote should be pumpkin shaped?
In the absence of a genetic analysis and knowing the definition of species is rubbery and changing, especially for fruits in cultivation we can still make an informed observation. The seeds are distinctive and the foliage is recognisably different. The evidence is that Ross and Canistel do not cross and that perhaps is the key. Closely related species can often hybridize and if these two cannot it suggests distinctiveness so yeah it looks like they are different species.
Is a Ross Sapote seedling still a Ross Sapote? It depends on how true they are and how significant a character small changes in fruit shape are. Jacks, durians, many cultivated anoona and citrus are not super dooper true and calling them seedlings of or naming a new variety is probably justified at times. That is within reason as thousands of new varieties with tiny variations wouldnt work. I think Ross is true enough from seed to still be called Ross and the difference being a slight variation in fruit shape (which is not a great diagnostic character) could mean it is best to call them Ross Seedling so to reduce confusion.
Mike, i sent photos of Ross sapote once to taxonomist T. D. Pennington, and he told me that it was probably a different species than canistel, but he didn't know what species it was. It's possible it's therefore an unnamed species, since i think Pennington wrote a monograph on the pouterias and would have probably recognized it if it was a named species.
Oscar

Felipe

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1385
    • Canary Islands, Spain - 12b
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Ross Sapotes and Canistels
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2021, 08:17:37 AM »
Unlike all my other pouterias, my ross suffers a lot from chlorosis and is also y very poor bearer. Do I have those problems maybe because my ross is grafted on canistel?

gnappi

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1949
    • South East Florida (U.S.A) Zone 10A
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Ross Sapotes and Canistels
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2021, 09:03:47 AM »
While the Bruce produces a nice large fruit, it is one of the drier mealy textured canistels.  From what is available in the States, Fairchild 2, Trompo and Aurea are the best selections.   I will definitely add the Ross to the list but I keep it separate as its not a named variety of canistel.

Agreed on the Fairchild #2. It's one I'd really hate to lose in a storm!
Regards,

   Gary

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk