Author Topic: How likely is it that my Ichang Papeda is actually a hybrid?  (Read 854 times)

Melenduwir

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How likely is it that my Ichang Papeda is actually a hybrid?
« on: April 08, 2022, 11:04:23 AM »
I recently ordered one from Woodlanders, it arrived yesterday, and I've found myself a bit skeptical.



Here's a closer view of the older leaves, which are rounded instead of lanceolate:



A close-up of the newer leaves, whose petioles are noticeably smaller than the actual leaf:



The images I've found on the Internet of C. cavalereri, and of related plants like the Makrut Lime, suggest that the petioles should be roughly the same size and shape of the actual leaf.  I know this is a young plant, but is it possible that this is a hybrid?   With, perhaps, a lemon?

I don't necessarily mind, if this plant produces zygotic seeds, but the implications for cold-hardiness are vital.

Till

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Re: How likely is it that my Ichang Papeda is actually a hybrid?
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2022, 03:21:54 PM »
I bought a similar plant as yours. My suspicion is that they sold me Ichang Lemon instead of Ichang Papeda. I also have another C. ichangensis that has petioles almost a big as the main leaves, quite different to the first plant I bought.
But maybe you should wait a bit. I am not an expert in Ichang Papeda but have seen that Yuzu leaves of young seedlings sometimes have no broad petioles. Could it be the same with Ichang Papeda that they get broader with age?

Citradia

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Re: How likely is it that my Ichang Papeda is actually a hybrid?
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2022, 08:00:12 PM »
Know that Woodlanders sells seedlings. Ichangensis does not always come true from seed so probably a hybrid. I have seedlings from a fruit I got from Woodlanders and from another place and the main leaves are a little longer than petiole at least most are.

Perplexed

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Re: How likely is it that my Ichang Papeda is actually a hybrid?
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2022, 03:33:42 AM »
I've had the same thing with my "ichang papeda" from Woodlanders. They sell seedlings and do not sell grafted ichang papeda. Pretty much all citrus on their website will come true except Ichang papeda.

Melenduwir

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Re: How likely is it that my Ichang Papeda is actually a hybrid?
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2022, 05:22:57 PM »
I'm actually looking for citrus that doesn't come true.  Ichang papeda doesn't seem to self-pollinate effectively, so if they had only a single tree seeds are likely to be the result of a cross.

Melenduwir

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Re: How likely is it that my Ichang Papeda is actually a hybrid?
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2022, 05:25:44 PM »
I also have another C. ichangensis that has petioles almost a big as the main leaves, quite different to the first plant I bought.

May I ask where you got it?  I've had trouble finding any sources, either seedlings or seeds or grafts.

Quote
But maybe you should wait a bit. I am not an expert in Ichang Papeda but have seen that Yuzu leaves of young seedlings sometimes have no broad petioles. Could it be the same with Ichang Papeda that they get broader with age?

Yeah, early leaves don't always have the same shape as mature specimens, so I've tried not to leap to any conclusions.  But if this isn't a pure strain, it's best if I knew that as early as possible, given how slowly ichang grows.  Also, a cross with lemon is likely to be less cold-hardy, and I don't want to expose the plant to conditions that ichang can survive but a hybrid couldn't.

mikkel

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Re: How likely is it that my Ichang Papeda is actually a hybrid?
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2022, 09:06:27 PM »
For me, Ichang and its hybrids grow better than Poncirus and its hybrids.
The size of the petioles change over time, but the shape remains pretty much the same. On your plant, the top part is the widest. On my Ichangensis, the middle part is the widest. Hybrids tend to have a shape like yours. At least on my plants.

mikkel

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Re: How likely is it that my Ichang Papeda is actually a hybrid?
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2022, 04:19:04 AM »
I must correct myself. the petioles on my Ichang Papedas are not only widest in the middle but also at the top. but the middle is already as wide as the top....
This can be seen on the picture better than in my description

Perplexed

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Re: How likely is it that my Ichang Papeda is actually a hybrid?
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2022, 10:27:01 AM »
My leaves



Perplexed

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Re: How likely is it that my Ichang Papeda is actually a hybrid?
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2022, 10:32:39 AM »
Here is one that grew some seed, which had leaves that looked hybridized but appears to have change the petiole size this spring.




Melenduwir

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Re: How likely is it that my Ichang Papeda is actually a hybrid?
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2022, 03:25:22 PM »
I guess I'll have to wait and see.

SoCal2warm

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Re: How likely is it that my Ichang Papeda is actually a hybrid?
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2022, 12:40:50 AM »
I recently ordered one from Woodlanders, it arrived yesterday, and I've found myself a bit skeptical.
In my opinion those leaves are symmetrical enough that it could be Ichang papeda.
I think on some of the smaller sized plants, the leaves might not be quite as symmetrically sized as on more mature trees.

You will notice that a few of the leaves in those pictures do seem to have more of the fuller symmetry of stereotypical Ichang papeda.

It does not appear to be Ichang lemon from the leaves, much more like Ichang papeda.

Melenduwir

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Re: How likely is it that my Ichang Papeda is actually a hybrid?
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2022, 04:18:28 PM »
Thank you for that feedback.  I guess papedas, like some other kinds of trees, are sufficiently variable in size and shape while young that I can't draw any conclusions.  I'll have to see what it grows into.

Citradia

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Re: How likely is it that my Ichang Papeda is actually a hybrid?
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2022, 07:21:20 AM »
Iím giving up on my from-seed papedas which die back every year from cold. I have/had two left that went unprotected this winter and kept green leaves all winter which was unusually warm, and pretty much died after two nights of 14 degrees in mid March. Cold hardy citrus is only hardy while dormant. Two weeks with temps in seventies and sixties followed by a polar plunge kills. Even my citranges look like garbage right now and my 15 foot tall Changsha unprotected this winter looks like a dry tumble weed although still green for now when scratch bark.

 

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