Author Topic: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?  (Read 4335 times)

TheWaterbug

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How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« on: October 07, 2019, 02:23:27 PM »
I should put "seedling" in quotes because I think these were propagated by tissue culture:





But in any case, they're about 6-8" tall right now, after adding a leaf since this photo was taken.

They started without any root ball to speak of. They came in those little starter cups that are ~1" square x ~3" deep, and tapered towards the bottom. I was amazed that that much plant could grow in that little soil.

So there's no corm to speak of, yet.

I'm also not sure when I should put these in the ground. They seem a bit tender right now, although they've been pretty happy being outside for the last 10 days. Weather is in the low- to mid-70s these days, but it will get colder and windier as Fall marches on. It never freezes here in Los Angeles, and the coldest nights go down to the low 50s.


I put two larger banana plants in the ground in the Fall 2 years ago, and they didn't make it.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2019, 03:42:01 PM by TheWaterbug »
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lebmung

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2019, 04:15:28 PM »
I should put "seedling" in quotes

Musa acuminata and balbisiana are also grown from seeds. I do it. I takes 3-4 years to set fruit. Tissue culture minimum 14 months even in zone 10, they grow slower than a sword pup.
A sword pup in my zone 7B can be grown in 2 years to set fruit.

pineislander

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2019, 06:25:26 PM »
Growth will be slower at the temperature you speak of. If they can be kept warmer and slowly given as much light as possible that is what you will need. They won't grow much at or below 50 degrees. Be aware that mature bananas can easily need a six foot diameter root zone to do well, but roots can extend 10 feet over time. If you try in pots or in a grass lawn they won't grow very well.

BestDay

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2019, 01:05:07 AM »
With your cooler summer temps in Palos Verdes, I would guess 3-4 years till fruit. What varieties are those?  I would recommend buying larger plants locally. A 15 gallon size banana could have fruit next summer.

Bill

TheWaterbug

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2019, 02:12:45 PM »
Thanks for all the feedback. These are supposedly Blue Java/Ice Cream Bananas, purchased via amazon from Hello Organics.


If they're from tissue culture then I have more confidence in their pedigree.


I purchased these because TopTropicals didn't have any Blue Java in stock, and then now that I have these, I just received an email that TT now has 3 gallon plants in stock::)


I'll put these in the ground as soon as they grow a rootball, probably in the Spring after it's warmed up around here. This is probably the worst time of the year to buy and plant tropicals in Los Angeles! We're warm throughout the rest of the year, with spring/fall temps reaching into the 80s and summers reaching into the 90s.


I put a Dwarf Cavendish in a pot 5 years ago, and for the first 4 years it didn't do much. It grew from a 1' tall to about 5' tall, but it never flowered. Then I put it in the ground, and it took off. Well, sort of. The 1' pup that was next to the main plant starting growing like crazy, and quickly outgrew the main stem. Then the main stem got eaten by goats.  ::) .


That pup is now the main stem, and the plant is about 6' tall, where the newest leaves separate, and the top leaf is going straight upwards, to about 9'. I'm hoping it flowers this year.


I need to prep a new bed, away from the goats, for these Blue Javas. If those goats are still here after my Dwarf Cavendish fruits and dies, I may transplant that corm over to the new bed as well. I also have a ~3' plant of unknown variety that was given to me by a friend. It was cut off from the main plant, with no roots, so I have that in a pot as well, until it gets somewhat established. It just unfurled its first new leaf, so I'm thinking it's going to make it.


So, long story short, all my bananas will soon be in the ground, and I'm hoping I get some fruit, soon!
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 02:16:03 PM by TheWaterbug »
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TheWaterbug

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2019, 02:29:34 PM »
And here they are, about 3 weeks after purchase and potting:






Each of them has one new leaf!
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pineislander

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2019, 05:12:48 PM »
I put a Dwarf Cavendish in a pot 5 years ago, and for the first 4 years it didn't do much. It grew from a 1' tall to about 5' tall, but it never flowered. Then I put it in the ground, and it took off.
Most people seriously underestimate the growth capability of musa. It needs LOTS of room, good fertility and water and low competition but full sun. If you grow in a pot, slip them out after a month or two you will usually find the roots have taken over showing they have done all they can and are ready for more. I regularly find banana roots up to 10 feet away from the corm. Be brutal when unpotting and replanting, pruning off much of the roots when you replant. This stimulates new feeder roots. Commercial growers will typically top off all leaves and pare the corms down to no roots at all and plant what looks like an onion, sometimes laying the pared corm on it's side. The idea is to have the central bud come out sideways and work against gravity to grow upwards, which creates lots of new roots downwards for a stronger anchor.
In a good season I have laid sword suckers on the ground sideways. Within a month or so they will send a new bud up through the pseudostem and begin to grow again.

TheWaterbug

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2019, 07:01:22 PM »
Wow! Great info!


How deep do the roots go? Or are they normally shallow and wide?
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kh0110

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2019, 08:25:23 PM »
... Commercial growers will typically top off all leaves and pare the corms down to no roots at all and plant what looks like an onion, ...

That was exactly what I got by mail from Thailand, they sent me a giant onion!!! And I'm at its 4th generation now of that Dwarf Namwah, no problem at all.

And talking about reliable pedigree, I would rather go with Bill's (BestDay) proven Blue Java pups than with an online vendor.
Thera

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2019, 01:04:28 AM »
As far as I know the real Blue Java isn’t being tissue cultured right now. I could be wrong but I believe all online tissue cultured Ice Cream banana plants are actually Namwa.

Bill

TheWaterbug

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2019, 04:35:11 PM »
As far as I know the real Blue Java isn’t being tissue cultured right now. I could be wrong but I believe all online tissue cultured Ice Cream banana plants are actually Namwa.


You could be right. In the Q&A section of the amazon page where I bought these plants, a customers asks, "Are these true Blue Java plants?" and the seller's official answer is "No."


So if they're Namwa, how good is Namwa? I just want a banana that tastes like ice cream, regardless of what it's called!
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spaugh

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2019, 10:07:00 PM »
Namwahs are good.  You got enough to start a farm there.  Those things multiply pretty quickly. 

I would up pot them to 1 gallon size in a week or so using cactus mix.  Then just tip it over and check the roots after a couple months and once roots hit the bottom up pot again to 3 gal or 5 gal.  And do the same thing, tip it over, slip the pot off and check if roots are at the bottom.  At that point transplant into the ground.  I do my tissue cultures that way and get fruit in under 2 years. 
Brad Spaugh

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2019, 10:17:40 AM »
Namwa, is very good. In my opinion it is a much better banana than Blue Java. But Blue Java is light and fluffy so it has the texture of ice cream not the flavor of ice cream. 

I wouldn’t recommend growing four Namwa. Variety is the spice of life. So why grow four banana plants that are the same when you could grow four different bananas?

Bill

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2019, 10:23:15 AM »
Spaugh, Palos Verdes gets much less heat than you do. Palos Verdes is right on the water. When it is 90 degrees by you it is 70-75 degrees in Palos Verdes. And don’t forget about all the May Gray and June Gloom. Summer doesn’t even start until July!  Hence the bananas grow much slower.

Bill

TheWaterbug

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2019, 11:24:22 AM »
Yeah, I don’t need 4, but that product from
Amazon comes in a 4-pack. And then of the 4 had two plants in it, so I split that, and both survived.


So now I have 5. I’ll probably plant no more than 2 of them, so I’ll have 3 to give away or trade.


So I should put these in the ground when they’ve filled a 5 gal pot?


It’s good to hear that I got a good variety. I’ll try to get a true Blue Java as well, so I can compare. I also have a Dwarf Cavendish that’s about 6’ tall at the crown, and a Un-known variety that was given to me as a 3’ cutting, that just unfurled its first new leaf since I potted it.


So sometime in the future I should have plenty of bananas!
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ricshaw

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2019, 12:28:20 PM »

So if they're Namwa, how good is Namwa? I just want a banana that tastes like ice cream, regardless of what it's called!


A local CRFG Banana expert recommended Dwarf Namwah for my coastal Southern California location. It is a good tasting cultivator, but does not taste like ice cream;D


TheWaterbug

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2019, 07:23:13 PM »
I also have an . . . Un-known variety that was given to me as a 3’ cutting, that just unfurled its first new leaf since I potted it.


Here it is, 6 weeks after potting. It did absolutely nothing for the first month, and then quickly sent out 3-4 new leaves:





and some pups!


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spaugh

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2019, 07:33:44 PM »
My fake ice creams (tall namwah) just gave us a decent rack.  They were pretty good.  You have to let them get really ripe before they taste good.  Like peel starting to turn black.  Its not a bad banana but it does need propping which I hate.  The weight of the rack will pull this type over. 

It takes forever to ripen also.  It took over 6 months to size up.  Would probably take a lot long at the coast.  I doubt you could get it to ripen without going through a winter unless you get lucky and it fruits in february.  Mine flowered in spring and finished just a week ago. 





And now the next pstem is flowering but the tree got shredded in the santa anas.


« Last Edit: November 04, 2019, 07:37:41 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

TheWaterbug

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2020, 07:08:35 PM »
And here they are, about 3 weeks after purchase and potting:

Each of them has one new leaf!


Nearly a year after purchase, they're doing well, despite the goats eating nearly all of the growth that you see above. 2 of them died, but 3 of them are still alive and thriving now that the goats are properly fenced in. They're the 3 to the right, in the black plastic pots:






The tallest is 32" at the pseudostem:






How big is this pot? 3 gal? 5 gal?





I'm still waiting for my gardener to prep my banana patch so I can put one of these (and the mystery banana to the left, to the left of the terra cotta pot) in the ground.


The other two I can trade, if anyone is local to me in Palos Verdes.
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TheWaterbug

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2020, 11:34:06 PM »
I'm still waiting for my gardener to prep my banana patch so I can put one of these (and the mystery banana to the left, to the left of the terra cotta pot) in the ground.


Here we go! The Mystery Banana has 2 large pups, and was completely root-bound in its pot:






The 3 remaining Namwas are also of good size, and root-bound:




The Namwa at the far right I will donate to my Mom; the other two I'll plant here.


So I extracted them all from their pots, frayed their roots a bit, and put them in:



If last year was any indication, these guys should explode in April/May when it starts to get warm around here.
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bsbullie

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2020, 08:31:59 AM »
Those are planted way to close each other.
- Rob

EddieF

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2020, 11:15:30 AM »
They'll be fine at that distance, i've had them like that.  Twice as close would be ng.
Good job growing them.

bsbullie

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2020, 11:21:38 AM »
They'll be fine at that distance, i've had them like that.  Twice as close would be ng.
Good job growing them.

Sorry, you are way off on accuracy...but hey, you are the expert here.  Hahahahaha 

Another strong showing on people who have no clue on this forum...
- Rob

BestDay

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2020, 04:32:43 PM »
How far apart are they?  6’?

Bill

EddieF

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Re: How long from banana seedling to fruit in So. California?
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2020, 05:41:18 PM »
WaterBug, this is why i say spacing's fine.  I started with 1 when i got the house.
Since photos, i put chain link fence posts & tie pipe in between b trees & fence that i strap with ratchet type tie downs the b trees to so they stay straight with weight.
Today, there's 2x as many, they might only yield 60-100 bananas per bunch but that's plenty for me.
Far right b tree is the one with b's.  Been growing in same soil since 2006.  I fertilize.
No idea what type they are, 3/4 size or less of store types, sweetness is insane.  Spoil kids with them heh.
Ed

Bs, never said i was expert.  Wouldn't be here asking 100's of mango questions.