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Messages - cbss_daviefl

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: First time trying cherapu
« on: October 12, 2023, 07:43:30 AM »
I grew one that was around 3 inchs. The skin is paper thin so that one fruit had more edible flesh than the largest mangosteen I have ever had. I have never eaten more than 2 in a sitting so I  am not sure if I would have had latex lock jaw after a dozen. Maybe shipping increased the latex effect.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: My Grafted mangosteen
« on: October 07, 2023, 05:27:46 PM »
Garcinias can take a lot of punishment. However, when they start showing signs of distress, it can already be too late. Sometimes they just go dormant for 12-18 months. As dwfl stated, it can just be a prolonged death. I agree you should explore other options. If your tree recovers, at worst, you will have it and whatever else you were able to acquire.

To show the resilience, I grafted some mangosteen on August 5th and just left the cuttings on the ground. Those cuttings are still looking pretty good, leaves still attached and everything.

I have purchased fruits from PR, planted the seeds and after a year or two, I had rootstock ready to graft. Here are some of the plants I grafted 2 months ago.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Achachairu - doing great in S. Fla
« on: September 24, 2023, 07:09:13 PM »
Sleepdoc has some awesome garcinia trees!

My achachairu tree is fruiting for the second time this year. The first year I got six fruit but this year I had hundreds. The tree has had fruit since June and still has some.   The fruit are very good and get better later in the year.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mangosteen grafting questions
« on: August 10, 2023, 03:36:48 PM »
I tried to find the source of the numbers I found but was not able to find it again. Here is another resource I found:

Section 9.2.1 is titled Rootstocks

Here is a paper stating that inarching with G tinctoria will increase the growth rates:

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mangosteen grafting questions
« on: August 10, 2023, 07:47:29 AM »
I read a study comparing grafting results of mangosteen to itself vs other species.  To itself the success rate was over 80%. To other species the success rate was 12%, if I am remembering correctly. 

I grew suitable mangosteen rootstock in 2 years in south Florida and got scions from my Puerto Rico vacation last week.

I agree with Peter on all his points.  I've witnessed first hand grafted trees versus seedling trees and there is just no contest.  These trees were at Ian Crown's farm in PR.  Same age or older grafted trees were much much smaller than seedling trees.  They also fall way short on production versus seedlings.  Grafted trees much older than some of the seedlings still cannot compete.  Don't get me wrong...they were all lovely trees.  Their shapes were very nice, very short, round, compact, and I don't believe ever have been pruned...a perfect option for a backyard or greenhouse.  I just don't think they are a winner for a farm.

As for grafting, here in the Asian countries, it looks like they only graft onto mangosteen.  Probably don't figure it worth the risk of any delayed compatibility issues.  The goal is to get fruit on the tree as soon as possible.  This is what gets people excited and makes the sale...even though the tree might only put out 1-3 fruit for several years.  I'm sure it also is plays a role in why the tree is normally so stunted.  Would I have purchased one if available when I had the greenhouse?  Damn right I would!  If someone made these available to people in the states, at a reasonable price, they'd make a killing.  For those doing their own grafting, if you can get the scions, graft away on any garcinia you can.  You might come up with a winner...but hedge yer bets and have some nice mangosteen seedlings available too.

Garcinia do not graft easily. The scions do not form a good bond to the rootstock's vascular system, often just enough to survive but not enough to grow. I tried grafting on hombroniana and others and was not successful. I know someone that got a take on brasiliensis, but it does not grow. I was able to graft female to a male, and the scion is fruiting one year later. The trees are delicate and grow slowly. Flowering trees grow even slower so I can't experiment as often as I would like.

Top flower is male, lower left is grafted female, on male seedling.

I think 9b is going to be tough. When you get a tree to 25 gals and 8ft tall, it sucks putting it inside and getting it through a doorway, even a garage. I have to do it once or twice a year in 10b. In 9b, you will be doing it significantly more often, whenever temps go below 50. They have poor root systems so that adds to the experience.  You need to grow 5 plants to limit your chances of getting only male or females and some of them may die before they reach maturity. It took me 7 years, and I started with 18 inch trees and only because I got lucky with my first being male and second female. From seed, add another 2-3 years.  If you find plants, I would consider building a small, heated greenhouse.

I got zero from the 15 seeds I planted from last year's crop. I planted them the same day or the next day. In the female's container, I found a seedling while weeding.

My small orange sherbet tree fell over yesterday due to fruiting heavily only on one side.  I was able to remove some fruit and right it with a come-a-long and prop it up with a 2x4 along with tying a rope to my peach cobbler.  Every panicle had 2 - 5 fruits so I thinned to one.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2023 Mango Season
« on: May 23, 2023, 10:19:14 AM »
Those do not look like my rapozas, too purple and shape is different. My guess is sensation. Rapozas are ok-to-good classic mango. They do not fruit well at my house. Anthracnose resistance seems overrated based on my experience. I am topworking my rapoza to buttercream.

mmmmm, sweet tarts

What does Rapoza taste like? These are classic flavor, with some fiber.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mangosteen Advice Thread
« on: March 21, 2023, 08:54:07 PM »
Sequestrene 138 Fe is a brand of 6% fully chelated EDDHA iron

I put one of my large potted mangosteen in the ground a few months ago and it has been dropping a concerning number of leaves. I put up a shade cloth to shelter it on three sides but is still getting burned up top.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Bordeaux mix as Fungicide
« on: March 16, 2023, 03:15:30 PM »
If copper is sprayed only 3 or 4 times a year using copper soap or copper oxide, there is no reason worry about soil accumulation. Copper is a vital nutrient to plants. It is sometimes added to fertilizer and trees that are never or rarely sprayed may suffer from copper deficiency.

I agree using a spray sticker in the fungicide is important to extend the time of the fungicides effectiveness and keep the copper from washing off at the first rainfall. Nu Film 17 or Nu Film P are products that help with this.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Bordeaux mix as Fungicide
« on: March 15, 2023, 11:07:57 PM »
Copper sulfate is used as an algicide and root killer. When using it as a fungicide, it is important to neutralize its acidity (3 to 4) with lime or other plant friendly pH raising agent to a pH of 7. Low pH increases absorption by plants to possibly toxic levels. I believe copper sulfate has been replaced with other copper molecules because it is inefficient and leads to excessive copper accumulation in soil, which at high toxic levels is harmful to roots, blocks iron absorption and disrupts photosynthesis. Copper soaps (Cueva) and copper oxide (Nordox) work similarly as a fungicide with less copper and less worries about pH and toxicity.

I have a few seashores in pots but they are small from neglect and don't have any in the ground. I am not a fan. G. xanthochymus is similarly sour with large fruit and good flesh ratio and more to my liking, still not worthy of a spot in my yard.  I have a PM from a forum member stating they have a female seashore and they were looking for male seashore scions. 
Is there a list of primarily dioecious garcinias?  I'm aware of prainiana (cherapu), livingstonei (imbe) and it sounds like Lucs.  Also Russels Sweet

Any idea on hombrionia (seashore)?

No, some garcinias are mostly dioicous with exceptions that are self-fertile. Male trees seem more likely to produce female flowers and fruit based on my limited observations. It really sucks when you raise a seedling for 7+ years only to find that you only have half of the equation. I have 5+ female flowering lucs. I waited 3 years hoping they would mature into fruiting and they even produce flowers that appear male. At 10+ years, they still do not set fruit naturally. I grafted some males 2 years ago. I waiting for them to mature and flower, which will probably take a couple more years for heavy flowering. I had a few male flowers this year and was able to hand pollinate and set some fruit. Mangosteen and achachairu produce clones so those you do not need to worry about and there are probably others.  G. intermedia and brasiliensis are two that seem to be self-fertile. Charechuela might also fit this class. Large leaf madruno seems to be a mixed bag and my flowering tree does not set fruit. 

I have an achachairu planted which is actually 2 individuals maybe under 15 cm apart and both are growing well, just under 2 meters.  I do not have any long-term experience. They are intertwined and seem ok with close proximity and do not seem to be growing apart as closely planted jakfruit seem to do.

My fruiting tree was purchased from montoso gardens in PR in 2013.  It wa s 2ft tall in a 3gal pot. I potted it up to a 7gal and planted it in the ground in 2014. It did not do well in the spot I planted it because it was too windy. After years, it became acclimated and  started growing at a better pace. It fruited for the first time last year, 6 fruit. Right now, there are over 100 flowers on the tree, most of which I hope should mature into edible fruit.

Last year I planted some small tress in a wind sheltered area and they are growing fast and always seem to have new leaves. I was gifted a selecto seedling that was two trees from the same seed. When I planted them, one was 3ft and the other was just over a foot. As of now, the former runt is only a few inches shorter, growing over 3ft in a year. In 2020, I planted some that were in 20gal pots. One is now 9ft and the other over 10 but they have not flowered yet. I have seen much smaller trees with fruit and your 8ft trees are big enough to flower now if they are willing.

Neither should be harmful long-term.  Continue to keep an eye on the wound and keep the base of the tree weeded so the wound dries quickly after rain or irrigation. If you are spraying you mangos with a fungicide,  you can spray the wound too as added insurance.

I hope you get fruit soon. My first tree fruited at 12ft tall and wide. Still waiting on others that are smaller.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 2023 Mango Season
« on: February 25, 2023, 05:56:40 PM »
I am seeing lots of male flowers and panicles that do not set a single fruit.  It has been very humid in my area with no rain so I have anthracnose and powdery mildew.  I expect my harvest to be low but better than last year's disaster.

Taralay just started flowering, O15 good set with anthracnose, buttercream a bit late but seems to be setting, val carrie just flowering, cushman crowded but appears to be setting at top, harvest moon crowded setting on top, sweet tart flowered late seems to be setting, Lemon Zest, ok set with powdery mildew, dot ok set with anthracnose, edward low set, pickering not flowering due to shade, angie flowered late, PPK flowered late, rapoza heavy set but severe anthracnose, venus heavy set severe anthracnose, peach cobbler ok set, orange sherbert good set, triple sec good set moderate anthracnose, m4 flowered late, cotton candy good set moderate anthracnose, super julie good set, phoenex poor set, juicy peach good set, pineapple pleasure poor set, pina colada poor set, glenn good set severe powdery mildew, NDM didn't bother to look.

Fruit punch gets the gold star

BPelkey leaves look like my cherapus. Peter, do you have pictures of your leaves for comparison?

To me, that doesn’t look like cherapu.  The leaves should be smoother, more mangosteen like, not with any wrinkles.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Disfigured new growth on garcinias
« on: December 21, 2022, 09:20:56 AM »
It looks like zinc deficiency.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What causes rot inside mango fruit?
« on: December 06, 2022, 08:33:45 AM »
My next guess is that it is spongy tissue, a different disorder from jelly seed.  Take a look at the article linked below, at the end of page 58 in the section titled "Nutritional factors related to physiological disorders in mango". It states that there are a few potential causes, low levels of calcium, low levels of magnesium, high levels of nitrogen relative to calcium.   If that is the case, stop all N fertilizer and treat with gypsum and epsom salt or Cal-Mag for next year's crop.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What causes rot inside mango fruit?
« on: December 05, 2022, 09:24:01 PM »
Is there any seed at all? Is there still a husk with rot inside? I think it looks like an insect larvae attacked the seed embryo, and the rot is contamination from the larvae waste. There is a pest known as the mango seed weevil. They lay eggs on the surface of the fruits. The eggs hatch and the larvae consume the seed. The mango seed weevil is known to be in most mango growing areas, Hawaii and in the Caribbean, but not in Florida or California.  Maybe the weevils are already here or maybe these are being damaged by something similar.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Is anyone growing Mammee Apple?
« on: November 23, 2022, 11:06:01 PM »
My "Redlands" variety airlayered tree fruited for the first time this year after 9 years in the ground. I got 3 runts. The tree has been flowering for at least 4 years. I think your chances of fruiting in a container are low.  I have been told seedlings tend to be males.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Garcinia Dulcis - Thailand
« on: November 15, 2022, 10:03:59 AM »
My female garcinia trees will hold some unfertilized fruitlets for months. Sometimes they hold long enough to ripen, small and seedless.

I would go for an air layered one just to be safe.

Our 3 year old air layered maphuut bought from a "ngan kaset" fair produced its first fruit this year without other maphuut nearby. According to the seller it's the sweet and "good" type, but can't confirm that because the fruit fell before ripening :(

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cherapu - When to pick?
« on: November 03, 2022, 12:29:23 PM »
I found one of the small fruits on the ground this morning. It was green on the bottom so I was concerned it would be sour. It tasted great.  Sweet tangerine is the best flavor description I can offer.  The larger fruit still on the tree is around two inches in diameter.


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