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Messages - BloomAndSprout

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1
I'm addicted to the weird plants, the plants of genii outside of the typical Eugenia and Plinia plants. I feel like there's a lot of potential to be discovered out there for fruiting houseplants or plants you can overwinter

2
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« on: June 19, 2025, 08:30:09 PM »
Just the fact that I recommended Cerifera as a rootstock, after killing hundreds of trees grafted onto Californica and Rubra, should help hundreds of members successfully grow and fruit Yangmei.

I think a lot of us have, or are building, little "moats" of expertise like this, part of the only ways to make 'real' money with this stuff.

Based on everything I've read about yangmei here and elsewhere especially in regards to rootstocks and yangmei survivability people should really appreciate that you're throwing that out there so they don't sabotage themselves, even though you could indirectly benefit from not telling anyone that (for free).

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edit:" it was an old post, missed it's from 2016, not needed, even that though post from 2016 was absolute trash and an attempt to 'intimidate' the admins so that user could feel powerful

4
Eugenia punicifolia "Chapada Diamantina"

This plant is one year old.

I have two, the other didn't flower (you can see it in this pic), but that one is smaller and bushier.

I don't recall this being a year-to-flower plant, but looks like I was wrong.





5
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Kadsura coccinea
« on: June 10, 2025, 03:44:23 AM »



6
Mine that I keep in containers and overwinter indoors have only ever flowered or fruited in late summer and fall, however indoors they are constantly harassed by spider mites (which I am getting better at dealing with).

7
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Tlanoxtle -Lycianthes moziniana
« on: May 23, 2025, 06:47:55 PM »
https://academic.oup.com/biolinnean/article/132/2/359/6056232

So it looks like the reason the original posters in this thread have had poor luck is that due to the elevations where this plant naturally occurs, it's actually more of a temperate plant.  I think for a long time people just assumed it was more tropical species; I know I did.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg14219220-800-aztec-fruit-reappears-in-the-mountains-of-mexico/

Considering feijoa is a zone >= 7 plant and some of the eugenias having cold tolerance almost dipping into zone 8 I have been wondering what other highland fruits might survive in my zone, my current holy grails are unusual, especially tropical-tasting fruits not popular in cultivation perennial here. When considering other unusual fruits while zone pushing or otherwise growing in unusual climates, I think special attention should be paid to plants that form a caudex or rhizome... I had actually planted a Jarilla heterophylla a few weeks ago in the same planter as these tlanoxtles I was checking on when I realized last year's plants were returning... Now I will have to remove the Jarilla yet again so their thick roots don't tangle. It's really ironic I was trying to do this with the Jarilla when unbeknownst to myself I already succeeded in that very planter; Jarillas form rhizome that I suspect can be dug out seasonally if not left in overwinter...)

For a bit more info, earlier this late winter/ early spring (probably March or early April) I actually sprayed weed killer on the weeds that were covering the planter.  The tlanoxtle must not have been pushed up then, as the weedkiller did its thing.  I dug around to try to get the dead weed by the roots and I was really shocked the weeds formed such a ridiculous rhizomatous growth, which I now know was the Tlanoxtle, and my violent disturbances there did not kill the plant thankfully, and as per above I may have detached part of the plant and created a 3rd colony while rummaging around in the soil.

I cannot link some of the scientific articles regarding this plant directly, however if you type in the paper title into this (https://sci-hub.ru/) resource, it will often provide you the result you need.  I don't feel bad about this, it's a crime we pay for public resource and have all the gains, especially the actual knowledge itself, be so privatized.




8
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Tlanoxtle -Lycianthes moziniana
« on: May 23, 2025, 11:53:26 AM »
I know, I'm looking for the seeds too and just posted a request for them, although I don't see solid evidence the fruit is edible OR tastes good -- doesn't look like the seeds were ever sold publicly.  Problem is YOU'RE the only one talking about this plant when I look online!

But L. moziniana apparently being perennial... obviously thanks to its big tap root, which may have turned this plant into one of the random curiosities I was growing into something that might need to be taken seriously ... did nobody else try this plant outside in a colder zone?!  It looks like by all indications everyone who grew this and talked about it online would bring it back indoors expecting it to die. In fact I almost dug these guys out of the planter to try again next year. You're in a similar zone to me, you should see if you can get it to survive outdoors as well.  Even the guy in '93 who was trying to promote this plant did not seem to know or make mention of this.

What really gets me excited similar to your thread on mayapples is that these are understory plants..  while my Lycianthes mozinianas are in full sun right now for the most part, they don't actually prefer full sun. Living in a forest myself, I've been on the search for new fruits that that can grow in the understory and I think this just made the top of the list!  And unlike the mayapples these are already at least partly domesticated.

Obviously though, we need to get L acapulcensis!  Even as an ornamental!

Really made me crap myself when I checked the planter and realize this thing came back up .... conventional wisdom is that this plant is 9a at best.... I had made such an effort on them last year and without fruit I felt it was in vain, but old research indicates that these plants don't flower in their first year at all and all the scattered collections of experiences say the same thing.

I believe the tubers are more medicinal.  I think this plant's roots were traditionally used for heartburn, if I'm not mistaken.  I pulled some journal articles on this for my research.

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Tlanoxtle -Lycianthes moziniana
« on: May 22, 2025, 07:42:55 PM »
Uhh.... my Lycianthes moziniana I planted outside in a planter came back up this late spring!??? No protection, nothing, I just let it die and figured that was that, I'd try again another year... but it's actually perennial like maypop?!  Two plants actually, or three, unsure if the root spread.

Doing some research... Lycianthes moziniana (Solanaceae): An Underutilized Mexican Food Plant with "New" Crop Potential (1993)

Quote
The plant produces a thickened, perennial tap-root with a light orange-colored epidermis, and reaches to a depth of 1 m or more (Fig. 5). The root has buds surrounding the subterranean collar that give rise to the aerial herbaceous stems. These stems, in turn, develop thickened portions where they originate from the root, points from  which they are easily detached. Once detached,  these thickened stems become vegetative propagules. It is suggested that this characteristic is an adaptation to the agrohabitat to facilitate the plant's dispersion and propagation by means of the mechanical action of the plow. Seeds planted outdoors in pots at Chapingo, Mexico (altitude 2242 m) did not flower during the first growing season (summer 1984) although there was considerable thickening of the taproot. It may be inferred that flowering is postponed until the second growth year.

A brief online search shows that this is a persistent problem, getting this to flower -- and it seems to be all people not getting flowers the first year.

HOWEVER, regarding pollination:

Quote
Little is known of the pollination biology of L. moziniana and the other species of the genus Lycianthes (Nee 1986). Although pollinators were not observed, there is a high rate of fruit set. Of the five stamens, four dehisce before the fifth, the filament of which elongates so that the apical pores of the dehiscing anthers are near the receptive surface of the stigma (Fig. 4). This may be a selfing mechanism, which suggests that these plants may be facultatively autogamous.

10
It's blue, ba da be da ba die

Seems like it might even just be interesting as an ornamental.

Anyone offering them?

or perhaps other species in Lycianthes other than moziniana?

My Lycianthes moziniana regrew out of the planter outside. in 7b/8a.  There's no record of this behavior online. This thing shouldn't have come back up, but it did. This stunned me.  So behaving like passiflora incarnata, dies down to the roots but regrows each late spring. I haven't seen this written anywhere and people seem to have trouble fruiting this plant, I wonder if this thing and its relatives are a bit overlooked?

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So far Black Carbon pushing out growth very well, there's a slim chance on one of the other ones but so far it looks like 1/4.

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Hey, looks like there are mayapples literally a few minutes drive from my house. Literally right where I needed to drive tomorrow.  Serendipity. I'll go dig some up and report back.

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Calamondin curiousities...
« on: May 20, 2025, 11:51:13 AM »
I decided to repot the little guy, then plant him in the ground when he's bigger, maybe next year. Would be neat if it could survive!

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Somebody please help this man, this is serious!

15
Pitangatuba has wonderful undertones of apricot and mango.

This hirsuta was just straight nasty sour with nothing of note to make it worth eating. I would choose to replace lime in a daquiri with pitangatuba again, I did that last year with an excellent result other than the latex. Flavor was amazing. Lime and lemon have a very nice flavor underneath their sour. I just don't see it with this. It was kind of sour AND rank.

Look, I'm going to try it again, but I can say with somewhat certainty, this fruit has very limited usefulness.
Good to know -- looks like I will be passing on this particular Campomanesia unless someone else has something good to say, but I already have multiple pitangatuba seedlings going and don't need an inferior ultra-sour.

16
I'd like to join, but I need some direction.  I don't know where I can obtain one of these plants, while I am sure there grow natively somewhere around me, I don't know where. Is there any species particularly I should work on obtaining that would be best for this project? I have enough wild or unimproved lots around me where I could guerilla plant some of these on land I don't own (heh heh).

Also, the pawpaw discussion is close to my interests --- someone, or some group, needs to go out and collect samples of these pawpaw trees from ancient groves, I have thought this myself in the past -- but learning where they are is the challenge.

Great thread, by the way.

17
Found the fruit in the pot today, pretty windy day so it probably dropped premature. It was soft-ish in hand.

Crazy sour. Not really a great note there, in comparison to pitangatuba. I can't recommend growing this species. I don't really see much point.
How seedy was it, and were the seeds hard? If not pollinated, maybe it's sweeter when pollinated.

Had a few scant seeds, soft pulp. I know not to judge first fruiting, but I am not kidding even if this fruit were 10x sweeter it would still be practically inedible. It was like electric shock status sour, edging on salty.

10 x 0 sugar is still 0 sugar.

I am going to keep the tree of course and keep taking care of it, but certainly lost its allure for me.

Does it have any utility as being a souring agent in drinks or such more efficiently than any other plant?

18
Actually, just saw some today...


A bit lower flesh to seed ratio and a little less floral than whatever variety they had last time, but sweeter.

19
Last year I found both lychee AND rambutan at my Sam's Club, and this area is by no means well-populated or culturally significant, being in Arkansas. I was quite surprised, and they tasted good.  You may have luck at there or a Costco. I was really surprised, doubly so when they had rambutan...

I'm growing a container longan (3 actually though graft died on one so its future grafting stock now probably for a lychee variety as well) for a similar reason. I figure that I can't get these fruits most of the time anyway, so If I'm able to get a small crop, it's probably still about as much or more as I would have to pay for yearly...

However, missing from this discussion is the fact that you can actually induce flowering in longan and lychee with chlorate, right? This is what I have been wondering: how well does this work on containerized trees, and how much does this stress the tree?  How much does this fact help us in the real world?  Would this have any realistic benefit for either of us growing outside their natural zones in more artificial situations?

Reading this got me thinking - why are folks like you and I here? I mean, don't you have a mature fruiting lychee tree growing? And you still need to plead for the fruit? This tells me that all of the effort I'm putting into grow these potted trees in my backyard might not produce the amount of fruits I want, if any at all

IMO Once you start growing out of zone like this generally the value of the fruit is negligible to the value/utility of the tree and raw plant material (scion wood etc) in most situations.  (And even if you don't get fruit, you have a "backup," a "genetic record" to graft onto something or plant in the future). Even with figs some people make way more money with the trees than the fruit itself, and figs are top tier to begin with.

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Zone 5 passionfruit experiements
« on: May 13, 2025, 11:41:36 PM »
P. caerulea will keep roots alive to low temps and has some effect on grafted part but not as much as rootstock. The lowest my p. cearulea has ever experienced was 16F with no problem but lower?? You must remember that in ground plants have advantage with mass soil temp. in pots not so much unless covered in saw dust or some kind of mulch.

My P. caerulea survived last year ~11F.  When I checked it very early spring there were leaves that had to have remained from last year, despite the fact that it must have been sitting in snow as we had an unusual week of snow cover.   My in-ground never-flourishing P. edulis will die back to the ground as is its nature.

I've got a lot of love for these South American plants that grow in the cooler highlands.
Does your p. edulis grow back from the roots?

So far, it looks like most of my caerulea are alive after spending the winter in the garage, where it got down to about 25F for 2-3 weeks straight during the depths of winter (very little temperature variation in the garage from night to day, or one day to the next). Still a bit unclear how much of the shoots survived, one any given plant, some of the thin ones died, others are already showing new growth, others you can't tell yet.

I had one edulis var edulis I kept in the cellar, where it was dark and 40-45F for several months, and most of the leaves and some thinner vine tips died, but the plant survived and is now seeing a lot of new growth.

Sorry, P. incarnata, I keep getting the species mixed up even though I know the difference.

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I cannot resist.  Placed an order without any hiccups. However something unrelated, the Camino Laguna guava image seems to be broken/invalid and it breaks the flow of the shop page too. 

22
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Calamondin curiousities...
« on: May 13, 2025, 11:17:42 AM »
Yeah, I get canker sores in my mouth eating oranges and some other citrus, so I'm wary of the calamondin, I have abused this plant more than any other I have, I think, and it just refuses to die. It doesn't even need as much fertilizer.

23
Still need finale bill amount

I just calculated out the total, converted euros to USD, then sent the payment, he will handle shipping later iirc

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Calamondin curiousities...
« on: May 12, 2025, 10:53:42 PM »
I picked up a calamondin tree at a local Walmart as an impulse decision as I never would have expected them to have one here, Arkansas 7b/8a, it's been battered, blown out of its pot by a tornado out into the woods, starved of water, etc and it just doesn't die.

It's completely thornless as far as I can see. It's certainly not very big.

edit: ehhh part of me wanted to plant it and see how well it does throughout the Arkansas winter, but the plant is so prolific at such a small size, I kind of like it ...

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: RAIN!
« on: May 12, 2025, 10:24:40 PM »
Yeah, but this year was the first year my Karp's Sweet Quince was going to fruit, and I found out just how susceptible it can be to rust! I examined almost all the new tissue and decided to just lop it off, all the fruit is lost. I thought the rain was a blessing but it screwed me. I really wanted this one. I will have to spray next year. It was nonstop rain here and I live in a forest, and already planted too many of its close relatives nearby.... I hope the plant is more resilient against it when it's older.

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