Author Topic: Germinating hawthorn seeds  (Read 1304 times)

Tropicaltoba

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Germinating hawthorn seeds
« on: January 26, 2024, 04:28:13 PM »
Has anybody germinated hawthorn seeds specifically succulenta and Douglassi? Acid scarification is mentioned, I was looking at using a refill of battery acid as the h2so4 source but I wasnít sure about what molarity to use. Any experience doing this?

Tropicaltoba

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Re: Germinating hawthorn seeds
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2024, 06:57:18 AM »
So I found commercially available sulphuric acid source, and am going to give acid scarification a go. I was a synthetic chemist in a former life so I know how to handle it. Iíll post updates.

bussone

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Re: Germinating hawthorn seeds
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2024, 11:02:53 AM »
So I found commercially available sulphuric acid source, and am going to give acid scarification a go. I was a synthetic chemist in a former life so I know how to handle it. Iíll post updates.

Is there a reason to not use something like 10% vinegar? Not strong enough?

Tropicaltoba

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Re: Germinating hawthorn seeds
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2024, 07:30:20 PM »
I think itís meant to recreate the digestive system of birds.i think they also need a bit of mechanical scarification like a gizzard.

Tropicaltoba

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Re: Germinating hawthorn seeds
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2024, 08:05:43 AM »
I did the acid thing. Glad I wore full safety equipment. The acid burned off the outer seed coat, smoked like crazy and turned everything black. 30min soak rinsed it off and had beautiful looking seeds. Gonna stick in the fridge for 4 monthsÖ wish me luck.

gordonh1

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Re: Germinating hawthorn seeds
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2024, 05:35:18 PM »
I'm working with hawthorn seeds, too. I did not use sulfuric acid and doubt it would be necessary.

They need a long warm period before the cold period. You could either start in potting soil to expect germination in the second spring, or put the seeds in moist vermiculite in a plastic ziplock bag for 120 days at room temperature, followed by 90 days cold in the refrigerator, then plant. I'm seeing some germination on C. douglasii after that and waiting for several other species, including C. succulenta.

Tropicaltoba

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Re: Germinating hawthorn seeds
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2024, 11:14:56 PM »
Nice to know there are others like me to share info with.Ill give updates as they happen. What are you growing yours for?

gordonh1

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Re: Germinating hawthorn seeds
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2024, 06:04:27 PM »
I'm growing them for the fruit, for medicinal and culinary uses, or for wildlife habitat. I wanted to evaluate a few different species. So far I have germination on C. opaca, C. punctata var. aurea, C. azarolus, and C. douglasii.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2024, 06:08:31 PM by gordonh1 »

Tropicaltoba

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Re: Germinating hawthorn seeds
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2024, 08:41:38 PM »
Iím working on trying to convert my whole yard to native plants. Not many native nurseries where I live. I am working on growing a lots of plants from seed that arenít available locally. No one seems to be growing succulenta, I accidentally got douglasi seeds cause one website said they were native to my region, I think they were incorrect. I may try to sell my douglasi seedling to a local bonsai club if they successfully germinate.

gordonh1

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Re: Germinating hawthorn seeds
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2024, 03:09:41 PM »
I'm also very interested in native plants, and am doing the same here. Crataegus douglasii is native to Manitoba. See observations on iNaturalist: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?place_id=7590&subview=map&taxon_id=76469

I'd be interested in any Rubus or Ribes you are working with. I think several different Ribes are native there. Ribes hudsonianum, triste, oxycanthoides, americanum - not sure which are useful for culinary purposes. Maybe you have Rubus pubescens, idaeus strigosus, arcticus maybe. Cloudberry is native to Manitoba, but maybe only the northern areas near Hudson Bay?

Tropicaltoba

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Re: Germinating hawthorn seeds
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2024, 09:16:05 PM »
Thanks for pointing that out, I guess Iíll keep them. I wonder how accurate hawthorn identification is, they seem to hybridize easy and are hard to distinguish from what Iíve read.

As for other ďnativeĒ berries I have got pubescens, ideaus,and articus also had pedatus (not from my region, I got it confused with pub.) articus grew like an out of control weed in my raised acidic beds.I  was trying to use it as ground cover between blueberries. It actually swamped my blueberries, had lots of flowers and no fruit despite 2 cultivars, but I only gave it 2 seasons and then removed most of it. Ideaus grows just fine for the wildlife, I have a different (yellow Ann) that I cultivate for berries, needs pruning but gives 2 harvests per year. Pubesc. was just planted last year, I wanted a trailing white flowering plant for my front yard ornamental  ďEnglish whiteĒ native garden. I am trying native strawberry for that as well.

I have a couple ribes as well but most are cultivars as they are my wifeís favourite and I need to keep her on board with my plant obsession. I have golden current but the jury is out on that one still, grows well only a couple of fruit and birds beat me to them. Native black current flowers well but no berries yet.

I have native grape for the birds and hardy cultivars of which valiant is the best.

 Iíve got haskaps but all are cultivars that most likely have European and Asian genetics.

For serviceberries autumn brilliance is the best, standing ovation tastes pretty good and is a nice columnar form. Iíve got other local Saskatoon cultivars that had poor productivity due to soil compaction and rabbits, they should do better since moving and wiring.

 Iíve got other ďedibleĒ ornamentals; mountain ash, Nannyberry, sand cherry (very tasty if you canít grow sweet cherries) and some Aronia which are supposedly melanocarpa (taste good but astringent) but as suspicious are hybrids. I also have some sambucs cultivars which are supposedly native too, but few fruit so far.

Next on my list are native plums and some pin cherry.

gordonh1

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Re: Germinating hawthorn seeds
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2024, 01:27:59 PM »
That will be an amazing collection when they mature. I'm also growing Rubus pedatus, which is native here, Rubus pubescens, which is not, Rubus arcticus x stellarcticus hybrids, and as well we already had salmonberry, blackcap raspberry, Rubus ursinus (a trailing blackberry or dewberry). I introduced thimbleberry, but that is a preferred browse for the local deer, so it only survives inside fenced areas. Ribes divaricatum (very thorny), lacustre, rubrum, and trying to expand to include other species such as Ribes aureum (golden currant), cereum (wax currant), nigrum (European black currant), lobbii (gummy gooseberry), the native red flowering currant, and also nevadense, roezlii, speciosum, amarum - those last are California species of currant and gooseberry that I could find and seemed worth trying in the Pacific Northwest.

I'm also trying Amelanchier species of the Eastern and Western U.S. Some clones for fruit, Autumn Brilliance is one of them. There are wild ones in the forest here as well.

Yes, hawthorns are a difficult genus, with some species looking nearly identical, but actually different. Some hybridize and some have different ploidy levels, and do not. Some produce genetically identical seedlings (apomixis), and there are a large number of rare and localized types that are either species, subspecies, or varieties.

I just had germination from two other Crataegus species: laevigata (Smooth or Midland Hawthorn from England) and mollis (Downy hawthorn of Eastern North America).

« Last Edit: March 25, 2024, 01:33:19 PM by gordonh1 »

BloomAndSprout

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Re: Germinating hawthorn seeds
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2024, 04:15:36 PM »
I'm growing them for the fruit, for medicinal and culinary uses, or for wildlife habitat. I wanted to evaluate a few different species. So far I have germination on C. opaca, C. punctata var. aurea, C. azarolus, and C. douglasii.
C. punctata var. aurea has yellow-ish fruits, correct?

Do you know where I can obtain some of the seeds, or could I purchase some off of you?

gordonh1

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Re: Germinating hawthorn seeds
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2024, 05:50:31 PM »
Yes that is the yellow-fruited form of the dotted hawthorn native to the Eastern U.S.

I got the seeds from Sheffields.
https://sheffields.com/seeds-for-sale/Crataegus/punctata///aurea////5564/Dotted-Hawthorn,-Yellow-Dotted-Hawthorn/Dotted-Hawthorn,-Yellow-Dotted-Hawthorn

Tropicaltoba

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Re: Germinating hawthorn seeds
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2024, 10:28:41 PM »
Thatís where I got mine from as well.

BloomAndSprout

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Re: Germinating hawthorn seeds
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2024, 01:16:57 AM »
Fantastic!  Thank you!

Tropicaltoba

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Re: Germinating hawthorn seeds
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2024, 08:06:58 AM »
Iíll post when they germinate. If they donít Iíll post as well.

 

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