Author Topic: Seedling Mango tree thread  (Read 25186 times)

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6672
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #125 on: May 20, 2022, 10:47:03 AM »
M4 seedling - planted seeds 11/2017, just recently planted on ground after close to 5 yrs being potbound on a 15 gallon. Now ots flowrring. Survived my harsh temps 26f (being the lowest) since it grew, 120f temps & unprotected.


I hope to an improved fruit. Yes m4 seedling is lanky just like the momma tree.




Gozp, good going! I canít remember, is M4 poly or mono? Regardless, Iím very interested in the quality of seedling mangos.

Simon

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6672
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #126 on: May 20, 2022, 10:59:01 AM »
I have two E4 seedling mango trees (one is an actual tree, the other is just a graft onto an established tree) and both of them bloomed and the blooms are disease resistant and set a good number of small fruit. I will remove the fruit from the seedling tree but Iíll let the grafted seedling hold a fruit.










My Pina Colada seedling grafts also bloomed. The blooms are disease resistant and it is holding a good number of small fruit. The grafts are on an established tree so I will keep a few fruit to evaluate later this year. The blooms did get some powdery mildew but the blooms set fruit anyways.





My Orange Sherbet seedling bloomed but the blooms were extremely susceptible to Powdery Mildew so I hacked the tree back and top worked it with other varieties. I did keep one main branch and this seedling selection is also grafted onto another tree so I will continue to evaluate it in the coming years.

In my area, the PPK, LZ and OS seedlings tend to grow well but the blooms are susceptible to disease. The actual true named varieties, not the seedlings, also seem to hate cold weather and thrive in heat. These trees perform better at top of hill where there is good air movement. I have a tree in a spot with little air movement and it does produce but their is a lot of PM and very little fruit set.

Simon

fliptop

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 939
    • SWFL10a
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #127 on: May 28, 2022, 06:08:16 PM »
Simon, that's exciting about the Pina Colada seedling fruits!

My Coconut Cream seedling that lost blooms and little fruits in the freezes has kicked out an insane amount of shoots. Alas, they're coming out in all directions. Any suggestions as to when I should trim unwanted shoots off?





simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6672
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #128 on: May 29, 2022, 02:11:05 PM »
Hey fliptop, I would prune now to clean up any crossing or weak branches but Iím not familiar with pruning techniques in Florida. The scraggly and droopy growth habit of all those vegetative growths does remind me a lot of the actual Coconut Cream.

It is very exciting to potentially select a good offtype or zygotic seedling from a Polyembryonic variety. Please keep us updated!

Simon

fliptop

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 939
    • SWFL10a
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #129 on: May 29, 2022, 03:17:51 PM »
Thanks, Simon! I'm tempted to prune now but I'm also afraid of stressing the tree too much, as I feel it's still on the mend from the freezes.

I checked Alex's site and oddly enough, there's no description of the Pina Colada. Is it polyembryonic?

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6672
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #130 on: May 29, 2022, 04:35:58 PM »
Pina Colada is Polyembryonic. Itís definitely a top tier variety for me because of its super intense flavor. It has an intense acidic component combined with an intense sweetness that creates a flavor explosion. Sweet Tart has a completely different flavor profile but it also has this intense sweet and acidic component.

I personally donít detect much if any Coconut flavor in Pina Colada but it does have a pineapple like flavor. The issue with Pina Colada is that itís a small fruit with a relatively large seed and it is slow growing in SoCal. It has been reported to me that Pina Colada also has some disease issues when grown in SoCal. I liked this variety so much that I grew out a bunch of seedlings and grafted this more vigorous seedling selection to my established tree and it has grown nicely and bloomed and set fruit without issue.

Simon

Johnny Eat Fruit

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 356
    • So. California, Huntington Beach. Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #131 on: May 29, 2022, 06:07:12 PM »
Glad to hear about Pina Colada Simon. Last year I started growing several seedlings and they have done quite well in my greenhouse (See attached photo). When they are a little bigger I will likely graft them to existing mango trees in the ground.

Johnny



Pina Colada Mango Seedling Tree (5-23-22)

toadshade

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 34
    • USA, Georgia, Atlanta 7 A/B
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #132 on: May 30, 2022, 03:35:19 PM »
Just a follow up on trimming.  I have a three gallon mango that I just planted in the ground in my greenhouse in Georgia USA.  I was surprised to see it bloom as soon as it got warm.  At the recommendation of others, I cut off the blooms to promote growth since it is such a small tree.  Since I did that no new growth has started since I cut off the blooms about two months ago.  Tree is still healthy.  Just not growing new shoots.  I always wondered if I could have trimmed it properly or not.  I just cut off the blooms at the base of the blooms.  Which to me seemed a little too close to the node.  Would it be a good idea to cut it back at the branch instead?

Orkine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1218
    • Jupiter, FL, USA
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #133 on: May 30, 2022, 04:20:14 PM »
I have read several suggestions and the one I like the most is let it set fruit.  Once it gets to marble size, knock them off.  The panicle will dry u an fall off.
The reason as I understand it is your cut off the bloom early in the flowering season, the plant will try to push new bloom instead of vegetative flush which you want.
That said, I have tried many methods and in Florida, I don't think it matters much what you do, you will get new growth at the node if you just remove the bloom or of the branch if you remove the node (it is essentially like tipping at that point).


 

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6672
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #134 on: May 30, 2022, 04:48:52 PM »
Nice looking Pina Colada seedling Johnny!

Toadshade, I agree with Orkine. Also, when removing the bloom, you donít have to remove the entire bloom. At my location, removing the bloom too early will just cause the tree to re bloom.

Instead, you can remove 1/2 to 2/3 of the blooms to remove some of the weight from the branches. This will help prevent the branches from drooping. Allow the fruit to set and then remove the fruit when they are marble to thumb size or when the temps are warm enough to prevent blooms (average lows above 61-62F)

Also, when pruning off entire blooms, I like to cut above an intercalation so that I donít get a rosette of skinny weak growth. I prefer 2-3 evenly spaced branches. See this article

https://www.growables.org/information/documents/MangoPruningStrategies.pdf

Simon

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6672
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #135 on: May 30, 2022, 04:58:04 PM »
Hereís more on the physiology of mango blooms

https://www.scielo.br/j/bjpp/a/M3wyHvkcRMyrBrkTrzvzjyz/?lang=en


Thereís is a great in depth explanation of what triggers blooms in Mangos.

I still find it very ironic that mango growers in Florida and other warmer areas are struggling to get their mangos to bloom while us growers in cooler regions are struggling to get our trees to grow vegetatively (inhibit blooms) . Ultimately, the science behind what triggers blooms in mangos will be equally valuable to both parties.

Simon

toadshade

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 34
    • USA, Georgia, Atlanta 7 A/B
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #136 on: May 30, 2022, 05:05:42 PM »
Great info.  Thanks for the links

JoeP450

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 928
  • Mahaha Chinook
    • Palm City FL
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #137 on: May 31, 2022, 04:20:37 PM »
Simon this article is gold manÖ. Going to pay more attention to the floral and vegetative stimulators, and be careful of pruning within 4-5 months of floral stimulus (cold weather). I think why in cali itís optimal for mangos to flower sooner is itís dry and cold air so ratio of floral vs vegetative balance is tipped towards flowering ie cold is positive for floral induction while dry is negative for vegetative = strong bloom. The issue in Florida seems to be opposite so if poor cold fronts and rain the scale is tipped to favor vegetative growth and not ideal.

After reading this article my plan going forward is to tip prune 4-5 months before cold fronts traditionally come while withholding nitrogen and keeping track of flushing with goal of one flush post tip prune, then as cold fronts come add a lil nitrogen. I will add gypsum over the summertime. Will have to see how this works out.

What I also found crazy interesting is this paragraph:





Certain mangos require lower temperature threshold for flower induction and itís evidently graft transmittable so an interesting experiment would be to use those types as rootstock or inter-stock and see if that imparts a better bloom in cultivars that struggle to bloom in warmer weather. I have never observed an actual turpentine mango tree and donít know if itís a strong bloomer or not in warm weather but I think I heard it is most common rootstock used in FL. This could be good or bad if weather starts trending warmer over time.

-Joe

simon_grow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6672
  • USA, San Diego, CA, Zone 10a
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #138 on: May 31, 2022, 11:41:57 PM »
Hey Joe,

Iím glad you found those articles useful. I was thinking the same thing regarding our issue with cold and dry weather inducing blooms in our mangos so I tried to do the opposite of what I found in literature to stimulate blooms but unfortunately it did not work for me.

I tried increasing watering and giving very high levels of Nitrogen and extremely low input of Phosphorus but all that did was cause additional blooms. In our climate which is marginal for growing mangos, the cold weather is the strongest stimulus that tilts the balance towards blooms and leaf nitrogen levels and water has little weight on the scale.

In Southern Florida, where the climate is great for vegetative flushes of mangos, the more vigorous varieties may inherently flush more frequently than a less vigorous variety so one flush post tip prune may not work for all varieties.

I believe that the general consensus is that itís best to prune mango trees in Florida immediately after you finish harvesting the fruit.

Some varieties like CAC are known to require additional stimulus to bloom so I ran a bunch of experiments to see if I could use it as a rootstock/interstock to inhibit precocity but i was not able to delay blooming.

Simon

mangoba

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
    • US - Mediterranean
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #139 on: June 01, 2022, 10:33:22 AM »
This has become my favorite thread.

Since I could find here most of the folks who are growing seedlings, do you ever notice that the first few leaves are not necessarily identical to the growth that comes next? I'm talking mainly shape and to a less extent color. Could it be the difference between pulling resources from the seed as opposed to using roots and pulling from soil?

Ed Fisher

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • Stuart, Florida, USA
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #140 on: August 23, 2022, 04:05:49 PM »
As a newbie mango seedling planter - in Aug last year I transplanted a year old mango seedling (from what I suspect is a 30-year-old Haden hybrid mother tree on our condo property) into a marginal location (area gets occasional flooding). From descriptions of 2-year-old mango seedlings - this seems to represent exceptionally vigorous growth. This July, I've started some grafts from prepared scions from the mother tree and cut back the trunk and side branch crowns - with uncertain results so far. Here is a pic from June 2022 before grafting.






fliptop

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 939
    • SWFL10a
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #141 on: August 23, 2022, 06:23:49 PM »
mangoba, I have noticed some seedlings have had first leaves that were markedly different in shape and size than ones that followed. No idea the cause of it, though?

DAV1D

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12
    • USA, AL 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #142 on: August 23, 2022, 10:21:14 PM »
Has anyone ever grown a mango tree 100% indoors with grow lights?

alangr088

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
    • Los Angeles, Zone 10B Sunset 22
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #143 on: August 23, 2022, 11:14:57 PM »
Has anyone ever grown a mango tree 100% indoors with grow lights?


I grow them for about 2-3 months indoors in a greenhouse with lights. They grow like weeds. I got about 20 seeds from Florida growing nicely right now. Once I plant them outside they stop growing like weeds...but hey thatís California mango growing for you.

DAV1D

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12
    • USA, AL 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #144 on: August 24, 2022, 02:26:59 AM »
I'm in zone 9a. I was thinking about growing a full mango tree inside my house, I have 12ft ceilings.
Just wondering if anyone has done it before 😂
« Last Edit: August 24, 2022, 02:29:41 AM by DAV1D »

mangoba

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
    • US - Mediterranean
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #145 on: August 24, 2022, 07:22:26 AM »
I'm in zone 9a. I was thinking about growing a full mango tree inside my house, I have 12ft ceilings.
Just wondering if anyone has done it before 😂

 :D

Pickering in a large container maybe but get ready to fight pests and especially mites.

DAV1D

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12
    • USA, AL 9b
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #146 on: August 24, 2022, 08:28:31 AM »
Wouldn't there be less bugs, since I would be growing indoors?

alangr088

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
    • Los Angeles, Zone 10B Sunset 22
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #147 on: August 24, 2022, 09:41:49 AM »
Wouldn't there be less bugs, since I would be growing indoors?

Just a side note...my greenhouse gets up to about a high of 100 degrees Fahrenheit and a low of maybe 78. Humidity varies at around 50-70 percent humidity. I'm sure you could grow it inside of a home/house, just don't expect it to do too much. Consider it a house plant.

roblack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2858
    • Miami, FL 11A
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #148 on: August 24, 2022, 11:28:37 AM »
Here's some seedling Wangoes and wild mangoes. M. Zeylanica seems most vigorous so far.



johnb51

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4735
    • USA Deerfield Beach, FL Zone 10b
    • View Profile
Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #149 on: August 24, 2022, 02:01:11 PM »
This has become my favorite thread.

Since I could find here most of the folks who are growing seedlings, do you ever notice that the first few leaves are not necessarily identical to the growth that comes next? I'm talking mainly shape and to a less extent color. Could it be the difference between pulling resources from the seed as opposed to using roots and pulling from soil?
I have a seedling orange sherbet (polyembryonic), which I've been growing for over six months, and so far the new leaves do not match those of a grafted orange sherbet, but they do smell very citrusy when crushed.
John

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk