Giant kumquat & Nordmann seedless

[BorisR]

In Europe, there is a kumquat known by the names "Margarita Big", "Margarita maxima", "Giant kumquat", "Giant oval kumquat", etc. Usually nurseries write that he comes from Sicily without any specifics.
On the forum agrumes-passion.com In 2013, Ilya provides a link to the Sicilian nursery where this kumquat is sold. The structure of the site has changed and that page is no longer there, but you can find this kumquat there manually.  Interestingly, it is now called "KUMQUAT GIGANTE" and it is specified that it is "FORTUNELLA MARGARITA NORDMANN SEEDLESS". Do you think American Nordmann seedless and European Giant kumquat can be synonymous?

[brian]

The Nordmann Seedless kumquat is quite small compared to marumi, fukushu, and hybrids.  I doubt it could ever be known as "Giant".

In my opinion, when it comes to kumquats small is better.  When they become too large they are more like sloppy oranges.

[Ilya11]

I had it on macrophilla roots, the taste was close to that of regular oval.  It was not resistant in Paris region.
When grafted on clementine in the South of France, the rind become rather thin and overall taste of fruits is closer to limequat.

[BorisR]

The Nordmann Seedless kumquat is quite small compared to marumi, fukushu, and hybrids.  I doubt it could ever be known as "Giant".

So Nordmann is about the same size as a regular oval kumquat?

I had it on macrophilla roots, the taste was close to that of regular oval.  It was not resistant in Paris region.
When grafted on clementine in the South of France, the rind become rather thin and overall taste of fruits is closer to limequat.

Yes, Giant kumquat sometimes has a small nipple on its fruits, like on lemons. Are you suggesting that it could be kumquat×limequat?

[Ilya11]

My guess is that in reality it is Tavares limequat.

[Ilya11]

Nagami versus "Giant"

[BorisR]

I have Tavares and a Giant kumquat. They are different.

...
Maybe there are different Giant kumquats? Yours really looks like limequat.

[sc4001992]

That giant kumquat doesn't look like a normal variety kumquat skin color, too pale.

I have some photos of Nordman kumquat from a large tree that had hundreds of fruits this year. The size of the fruit is about the same as Nagami but it seems a little skinnier (maybe due to being seedless). I'll find the photo and post later.
 

[BorisR]

Ilya's fruit is really pale. I don't have my own fruits yet, my grafting bloomed for the first time this year. But I have seen and tasted the fruits from the person I took budwood from. The most accurate photos in the AgrumiLenzi nursery. It tastes like a regular F. margarita. Below is a photo from the person I took the budwood from.

I was confused by the description in the Sicilian nursery and I wanted to clarify this point. Now I understand that these are different things. In addition, I saw seeds in the photo of a Giant kumquat. I also remembered that I had an article about Nordmann kumquat, and there, in the description of the fruit, the length is about the same as that of a regular F. margarita.

[sc4001992]

Here's my photos.

[BorisR]

Hmm. Your photos make me doubt again. There is a similarity in the shape of the fruits.
Now I have the opportunity to get a Nordmann kumquat (not fast, closer to spring). That's why I became interested in this question. I'll probably order it and in a couple of years, when I compare the fruits, I'll write about it here.

[BorisR]

I'll leave it here, someone will be interested.

NORDMANN SEEDLESS
The Long - Awaited Seedless nagami Kumquat
by Alfred R. Loeblich III

While in Florida in January 1994, I came across a seedless variant of the Nagami kumquat that is being offered for sale by Ben J. Nordmann, Inc., 1600 West Plymouth Avenue (PO Box 621), DeLand, Florida 32721-0621. To my knowledge, this cultivar is the first truly seedless kumquat. It is here named the " Nordmann Seedless " in honor of George Otto Nordmann, currently living in Andrews, North Carolina, who developed it while living in Florida. As this variety has considerable commercial potential, is undocumented in the literature, and has only one source, the following description was prepared to bring it to the attention of fruit growers and encourage its dissemination and use.

Description
      On January 21, 1994, ripe fruit and leaves were collected from three mature trees at the entrance to Ben J. Nordmann, Inc. Nursery. The fruit stores well on the tree as abundant fruit was present in good condition on a second visit on March 23, 1994.
      Leaves (n = 30) collected at the midpoints of growth flushes had the following traits: [ all measurements made with 15 cm precision vernier caliper } total length 6.58—15.57 (mean 9.99 ± 1.98 cm), lamina length 5.66—14.27 (mean 8.96 ± 1.88 cm), lamina width 1.85—4.02 (mean 2.85 ± 0.555 cm), petiole length 0.80—1.34 (mean 1.03 ± 0.155 cm), petiole width 0.11—0.19 (mean 0.14 ± 0.020 cm), ratio of leaf lamina length to width 3.14, ratio of petiole length to width 7.08, percent lamina length to total leaf length 89.7 percent, thickness of lamina at mid point of lamina 0.20—0.32 (mean 0.25 ± 0.033 mm). Figure 3 illustrates leaf shapes.
      Fruits (n = 69): Epicarp color Orange group 24A (Royal Horticultural Colour Chart), oblong pyriform (figure 1) height 2.71—4.76 (mean 3.55 ± 0.40 cm), width 1.79—3.24 (mean 2.17 ± 0.23 cm), locule number 2—5 (mean 4.1 ± 0.65), core solid, seeds or aborted seeds never detected. Fruit rind dimensions measured mid - point of segment (n = 11): rind thickness 2.20—4.30 (mean 2.91 ± 0.722 mm), epicarp thickness 1.06—2.30 (mean 1.54 ± 0.384 mm), mesocarp thickness 0.84—2.34 (mean 1.37 ± 0.441 mm). Tastes like Nagami kumquat. Figure 2 depicts range of internal fruit traits.
History
      George Nordmann (personal communication), who developed this seedless kumquat, recalls that it arose in a batch of Nagami kumquat seeds that he planted in 1965.
      The seeds were from a Nagami tree growing in DeLand, Florida. This original seedless kumquat was planted at DeLand where it subsequently froze. Before its demise, budwood was taken from this original tree and budded onto four Carrizo citranges that were planted at the Ben J. Nordmann, Inc. nursery entrance. Three of these approximately 14 year old trees (originally grafted in 1980 plus or minus a few years) remain today; their height is approximately 4 m.
Discussion
      Before this seedless kumquat was found, two other partially seedless kumquats were described (Kennedy, 1992 and Nagle, 1993). The first, the seedless Nameiwa, is a pollen - sterile hybrid between Nagami (female) and Meiwa (male) that was produced by John. R. Brown. [ Note that this is a different Nameiwa than the Nameiwa parent of the Yuzuquat ; the kumquat parent of the Yuzuquat is Nameiwa # 1 which produces zygotic embryos. These two Nameiwas, not differentiated by Nagle, 1993, were distinguished by Kennedy. To avoid confusion the seedless version is designated Seedless Nameiwa and the other Nameiwa # 1. ] The seedless Nameiwa, under adequate pollination, produces nucellar seeds (approximately 10 percent of fruit from Hines Nurseries, Inc. trees had either seeds or aborted seeds). Nagle states that the Seedless Nameiwa seedling from the original tree is polyembryonic, as was its parent. If such is the case the vegetatively nurseries is identical to original Seedless Nameiwa.

Figure 1. Nordmann Seedless fruiting foliage. Fruit in center 3.9 cm propagated material of the seedling Seedless Nameiwa by several long. (Illustrations by Wendy A. Aldwyn) RFCI Seed Inventory complies by Tom White As of October.

Figure 2. Photocopy of Nordmann Seedless fruit, collected in January, cut transversely and both halves placed on glass surface of copy machine. Note the absence of any type of seed and range in locule numbers.

Figure 3. Line drawing of Nordmann Seedless leaves

      The original  Seedless Nameiwa tree, grown in Glines Orchard, Friend- swood, Texas was killed before the 1989 freeze but before then, material had been budded onto trifoliate orange from the original tree and planted in Houston, Texas. The 1989 freeze killed this tree. However, before this freeze, Hines Nurseries, Inc., Fulshear, Texas, obtained budwood of the original Seedless Nameiwa and continues to propagate and offer it for sale.
      The nurseries cited by Nagle offer grafted plants from a seedling of the original Seedless Nameiwa.
      The second semi - seedless kumquat described by Nagle (1993) is an open - pollinated Nagami that tends to abort its seeds when pollinators are absent, but produces two seeds per locule with adequate pollination. The DeLand, Florida, site of the three mature Nordmann Seedless trees has, in the same orchard, other citrus that could serve as pollina- tors: 1 Carrizo citrange, 16 Navel orange, 2 Fallglo tangelo, 2 Red Navel orange, 3 Page tangelo and 2 red grapefruit trees. In the nursery vicinity there are other citrus trees that could equally serve as pollinators as bees may travel a 3 km radius. The absence of seeds in the Nordmann Seedless in an environment with pollinators coupled with the almost three decades of seedless experience with this cultivar by the Nordmann brothers points to the Nordmann Seedless as being truly seedless with no aborted seeds and strongly suggests its seedlessness is due to ovule - sterility rather than pollen - sterility.
      The DeLand nursery propagates this kumquat on Carrizo citrange. Nothing is known about its graft compatibility, but presumably it would be identical to that of Nagami ; sour orange should not be used as a rootstock because kumquats are short - lived on sour orange.
      Olsen and Sleeth (1965) recommend using trifoliate orange, Cleopa- tra mandarin, or Calamondin as rootstocks in Texas for Meiwa and Nagami kumquats. Recently in California, the Citrus Clonal Protection Program (Nauer et al. 1990) had their Meiwa kumquats die on Troyer and Carrizo citranges and Calamondin ; they found the Neiwa kumquat to be long lived on trifoliate orange but to grow slowly. The difficulties in California with rootstocks successful in Florida and Texas suggest that rootstock compatibility problems may be induced by the arid California climate which is suboptimal for kumquats.
      Webber (1943, p. 642) states kumquats have received little attention and no cultivar has been named for any of the kumquat species [ Nord- mann Seedless is not the first kumquat cultivar ; it is preceded by the Centennial, a variegated Nagami recently released by the USDA in Florida (Barrett, 1993 ]. Webber viewed production of a seedless variety as a key to the development of a kumquat industry. Seedlessness cer- tainly is desirable to the marmalade and candied fruit industry as well as to consumer acceptance of fresh fruit in the supermarket.
      We now have the long - awaited seedless kumquat. For distribution to citrus-growing states other than Florida, this cultivar will need the participation of the various state agencies that regulate their respective citrus industries ; with this variety one cannot just send seeds ! Budwood will have to be obtained. Florida citrus enthusiasts and Florida growers for retail nurseries are encouraged to obtain and propagate this variety to ensure its perpetuation. Propagators out of Florida need to request their state agricultural agencies to put this variety through their re- spective quarantines.
. . . . .
I wish to thank Ben J. Nordmann, Inc. for material and hospitality, George Nordmann for the history, Wendy A. Aldwyn for the drawings and William B. Chapman for clarifying the Nameiwa's history.

References:
Barrett, H. C. 1993 ' Centennial ' variegated kumquat hybrid. HortSci. 28: 236.
Kennedy, C. T. 1992. The Hardy Citrus of Texas. Part II. Fruit Gardener 24 (2): 12-16.
Nauer, E. M., D. J. Gumpf, T. L. Carson and J. A. Bash. 1990. The varietal outlook. Citrograph 75: 181-190.
Olsen, E. O. and Bailey Sleeth. 1965. Release to Texas growers of Citrus budwood of virus - indexed selections of 11 varieties. J. Rio Grande Valley Hort. Soc. 19: 17-19.
Royal Horticultural Society Colour Chart in association with the Flower Council of Holland.
Webber, H. J. 1943. Chapter V. Cultivated varieties of citrus. In: Citrus Industry, Vol. 1, History, Botany, and Breeding, pp 475-668, Univ. Calif. Press, Berkeley & Los Angeles.

Alfred Loeblich, Ph.D., is associate professor in the Department of Biology, University of Houston, Houston, Texas 77204-5513. He is a member of the RFCI and CRFG. Reprinted from CRFG " Fruit Gar- dener ", October 1994.

[sc4001992]

I think I have some photos of the Nordmann seedless tree and fruits. The fruit was from a friend who has a large tree (10ft) and it had over 500 fruits on it when he gave me a handful of his fruits. They all looked like the photo I show above, some maybe a little smaller but had the same shape.

[sc4001992]

I like the tastes of all the kumquat varieties (fukushu, nagami, meiwa, maru, nordmann) but it is easier to eat the nordmann kumquat with no seeds so I will be grafting up many branches of that on my trees.

[martweb]

Yes, Nordmann Seedless and Kumquat Gigante are identical. In very rare cases Nordmann can have a single seed, but most of them are seedless. In my own experince Nordmann Seedless - although being a seedling from Nagami - is a bit larger than Nagami.

[sc4001992]

BorisR, I'm going over to the guy who has the large Nordmann seedless kumquat tree so I will take some photos for you so you can see the growth habit, branches, and leaves on it. It gets as much fruit as the Nagami fruits I showed above. The person is moving in another year so I asked if you would sell me his tree, but he said no, the new owners may want the tree.