flying dragon vs C35

[poncirsguy]

I have a Fukushu kumquat on C35 and several on Flying dragon.  Just showing some graft unions.

[scamper]

Could you post corresponding measurements? Height, pot-size, caliper (from same soil height, say 1 inch).

[poncirsguy]

    Fukushu on C35 has a non circular circumference of 5.25 inches.  the Fukushu and C35 are the same but have a misalignment of about 1/16 inch. The graft is 3.75 inches above the root collar.  root collar is 1/2 inches above soil line.  Tree is 6 feet tall with a diameter of 3.5 feet from bottom to near top of tree.  Pot is 22 inch diameter top to bottom and 18 inches tall
    Fukushu on Flying dragon has a 4.625 inch circumference Flying Dragon rootstock, with 4.25 inch circumference Fukushu scion.  The tree has a height of 4 feet 8 inches and a diameter of 3 feet for 2 foot of height and has 4 shoots that will fill out with age.  Graft is 4.125 inches above root collar.  The pot is listed at 13.5 gallon with an internal diameter of 19 inches and a height of 18 inches.  Bottom diameter of 12 inches.

[scamper]

So the 6 foot C-35 is in a 30 gallon pot?

I'm curious now. Did you notice more vegetative growth on the C-35, early on? Or did the root mass just grow that much faster? Presumably, it has grown faster in a shorter period of time, requiring up-potting, right?

In their current form, is there more vegetative growth on the C-35 compared to the FD?

[poncirsguy]

I have more knowledge now.  The C35 kumquat was grafted 5 years ago and the Flyi8ngdragon/kumquat was grafted 2.5 years ago.  The C35 Fukushu grew faster than the FD/Fukushu in the beginning.  My increased knowledge and care, kept the FD/Fukushu tree to grow faster in year 2 than the C35/Fukushu.  The FD/Fukushu is overall healthier.
The C35/Fukushu is fruiting and flowering now while the FD/Fukushu is putting on growth

[brian]

My fukushu on what I suspect is c35 but not sure was far too vigorous once I planted it in the ground of my greenhouse.  I have since regrafted it onto FD and I am much happier this way.  This rootstock might be okay when constricted in containers but it was too much for me in-ground. 

The FD graft unions do end up a bit "benched", but so far I don't think it has caused any issues

[David Kipps]

If using seedlings for rootstock, remember the possibility of occasional zygotic deviants.  If evaluating one individual's performance, and it happens to be on one of those deviants, your conclusions could be skewed.  In the case of C-35, I planted thousands of C-35 seed into open ground (normally sold to nurseries for rootstock production).  Most of them were uniform looking and also died during the next few winters, as expected in Z 6/7 here in North Central VA.  A few survived and in some cases also looked quite different than the norm.  Some were fairly vigorous, but others were very low vigor, yet healthy.

[poncirsguy]

The Fukushu was grafted to a straight twig straight thorn Flying dragon.  That FD was no more vigorous than their twisted sisters.  It was easier to T-bud to a straight shaft.

[scamper]

Have you tried to root FD cuttings? If so, was it easy?

[poncirsguy]

I have rooted Poncirus Trifoliate during the hot months in a sealed container on the north side of my house.  It took about 3 months.  Never rooted Flying dragon.  I had access to FD seeds at the time i needed them.

[deRoode]

Have you tried to root FD cuttings? If so, was it easy?

I have rooted FD with quite a high succes rate. I used substrate plugs (some kind of cocos type plug). You can root them in a plastic container under LED at 23°C constant. First time it took around 6-8 weeks for most of them to root, significantly longer than other varieties. Using material from actively growing plants gave much better succes rates.

[scamper]

Thanks for the info. @deRoode, did you also take cuttings during hot months?

@poncirsguy, have you had to root prune either plant yet? Does it look like more aggressive root pruning or more frequent root pruning will be ncessary on C-35 relative to FD?

[pagnr]

The Fukushu was grafted to a straight twig straight thorn Flying dragon.  That FD was no more vigorous than their twisted sisters.  It was easier to T-bud to a straight shaft.

I collected straight FD types, they seemed fairly variable to me, but distinct from regular trifoliata. Some were fairly unusual.

                                                                                                                                                \
For FD I generally used very small chip buds on an upward facing zig, much easier than T buds. --> /
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[deRoode]

Thanks for the info. @deRoode, did you also take cuttings during hot months?

I used cuttings coming from plants actively growing at 23 °C to 29°C. Material that was semi hardened worked best for me.

[poncirsguy]

Yes.  Each up potting I cleared out circling roots and cut he bottom 1/2 inch mass of matted roots off.  I will be up potting this spring from my 30 gallon pot to a 54 gallon Stainless steel pot on swivel wheels  I will trim off the circling and matted roots.  This will be the final up potting for this tree.

[scamper]

Yes.  Each up potting I cleared out circling roots and cut he bottom 1/2 inch mass of matted roots off.  I will be up potting this spring from my 30 gallon pot to a 54 gallon Stainless steel pot on swivel wheels  I will trim off the circling and matted roots.  This will be the final up potting for this tree.

How many up pots have you done on the C-35 so far? what about the FD?

[poncirsguy]

Both rootstock started in a gallon pot then went to 5 gallon pail in which they were grafted then into a 30 gallon for the C35/Fukushu and a 13.5 gallon for the FD/Fukushu.  The C35 is in need of a transplant and root prune and the FD will go into the 30 gallon.

[scamper]

My goal is to keep my kumquats in a small almost bonzai like state - 5 gallon or less. I guess FD is the way to go.

[poncirsguy]

I agree with you o Flying dragon

[scamper]

When do you normally choose to root prune? Like pre-winter? Post-winter? I have no idea what the recommendation would be for citrus.

[poncirsguy]

I have found the best time is early spring when I can put the tree outside in shade.  I can acclimate the tree to sunlight while the tree adjusts to the root pruning.  It is much harder to adjust in spring time than fall because the sun has risen to sun scalding levels when it is still quite cold outside.

[scamper]

Do you know if anyone on the forum has tried to grow citrus in air pruning containers?

[Tropicaltoba]

I tried the fabric ones in my greenhouse and don’t like them. I use 100% organic in my pots and when dry the water wouldn’t absorb and just spill out the sides. Also moving big ones 40gal was a a problem. The bottomless root saver seem cool but I have a tiled floor.

[Millet]

I have long used air root pruning containers from Rootmaker Corporation.  They are great at stopping the roots from curling around the edge of he container.  Citrus trees do well growing in them..

[scamper]

I have found the best time is early spring when I can put the tree outside in shade.  I can acclimate the tree to sunlight while the tree adjusts to the root pruning.  It is much harder to adjust in spring time than fall because the sun has risen to sun scalding levels when it is still quite cold outside.

Have you been using the same fert regiment on both?