The eremo- hybrids, which ones are worth it?

[Peep]

Last time I was asking about satsuma's, now the eremo's.

From what I have gathered there is:

1. Eremorange (-14°C)
2. Eremolemon Coachella (-12°C)
3. Eremomandarin (-?°C)
4. Citrangeremo (-15°C)
5. Citrus glauca x shekwasha (-?°C)

- Eremorange is the most popular, so I expect it to be good and it has good cold resistance, so I will add this to my collection

- Eremolemon is also reasonably popular, not as cold hardy, but because lemons overal aren't very cold hardy, I still think it is interesting to have (I have this one already).

- Citrangeremo, some information about it on the internet, but I did not find much about fruit quality or how it compares to Eremorange. It could be a little more cold hardy due to the poncirus genetics, but I'm wondering if it's worth it if Eremorange has better taste.

- Eremomandarin I haven't found much about it...

- Citrus glauca x shekwasha, I think this is also considered an eremomandarin. Not much information, especially about fruit quality. Adavo has it.


Any people here that have some experience with these? I could just get all of them for my collection, but I will already have so many varieties that I would rather preemptively remove some, instead of waiting until I can test and taste them all.

Here's a picture of my Eremolemon Coachella on poncirus. I have another one from Lenzi on carrizo, which I took a scion from and grafted on poncirus

[Perplexed]

Eremolemon is actually a citrus glauca x grapefruit instead of a lemon.
Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=tk7DaWYvuPAC&pg=PA149&lpg=PA149&dq=Coachella+Eremolemon&source=bl&ots=398gnZmEaG&sig=dXF_dpI9jtXmUUiQklXimVeJ9F0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=s7H1UqewD4i6kQeFjoGwBw&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Coachella%20Eremolemon&f=false

[SoCal2warm]

Let me first say I am not expert in this specific area, but from what information I have found, I believe that Citrus glauca is only about equal in cold tolerance to Satsuma mandarin. (Even though Satsuma mandarin can be rather cold tolerant in some situations)
This makes me skeptical that Eremo- hybrids with ordinary citrus fruit species could be as cold tolerant as claimed.

I do know that Citrus glauca is very drought tolerant, so that might potentially resist desiccating cold winter winds, and perhaps it enables the root systems to sprout back.

Of course, the person who made the opening post lives in climate zone 8b, so I am sure all sorts of only marginal hardy citrus varieties could survive there. Even a Satsuma mandarin might perhaps survive for him if planted in a protected spot. If he lived in 8a, it would be very much more difficult, and zone 7 nearly impossible.

It should also be noted that there is a big difference between zone 8 in the US South versus zone 8 in Europe. (Given the same climate zone number, I think the South is easier to grow in most years, due to the longer growing season and greater warmth)

[Florian]

I have a glauca x Shekwasha and a Citrangeremo. I have had them in pots for a few years. The glauca x Shekwasha has been flowering profusely but until now has never fruited. The Citrangeremo hasn't even flowered yet. So, this spring I decided to plant out the Citrangeremo and see what happens. I hope the change of environment might prompt it to flower. Winter-wise, we would probably be in zone 7b but recent winters have been mostly 8a to 9a, so I don't know when I will be able to put it to a real test. Anyway, if it dies, it dies and the glauca x shekwasha will be next.

Also, I consider those hardiness ratings (-14 C) as mere indications. They are often given by sellers or people who live somewhere those temperatures only last a short time and then rise above 0 C the next day.

Here's a pic:

[Peep]

@Perplexed

Interesting, on the website from Lenzi, where I bought it from, it is said to be a cross with Meyer. EDIT: In the book from Olivier Biggio he also writes it's a cross with "citronnier" (lemon).

@SoCal2warm

I haven't looked into it yet, but I also don't really understand where the cold hardiness comes from in these hybrids. Except for maybe the citrange and shekwasha cross.

@Florian

I also just use the temperature numbers as indications to rank different varieties. For example it tells me Eremolemon is less hardy than Eremorange. It seems that many people, not just you, who have the citrangeremo and shekwasha cross have trouble getting them to be productive.

[Peep]

A little more information from Olivier Biggio, who replied on this question on facebook:

- Olivier: Eremolemon and eremorange make excellent jams. Citrangeremo is a good mouth fruit

        - Me: Thanks for the feedback, do you also have an opinion on the eremomandarin(s)?

                  - Olivier: Jams. I prefer eremorange

This is translated from French.
 
So it could be that Eremomandarin is a bit similar to Eremorange, but not as good. But taste is subjective and he did not say that Eremomandarin is bad.
I am intrigued by Citrageremo being better to eat fresh than Eremomandarin, because it has Poncirus in the genetics.

From Agrumes De Provance (translated):

Eremorange:

This selection of eremorange gives excellent quality fruit. In jam or candied fruit, its taste of mandarin, orange and harlequin English candy make this citrus fruit exceptional. With great resistance to cold, this product can be acclimatized in many regions. This selection was made by SB. Resistant to -15°.

Citrangeremo:

This selection of eremocitrus of Mr. Thierry Asselucio gives small round orange fruits with red points in surmaturité. It presents round orange vesicles like that of the caviar lemons. Few seeds. Fruit can be used fresh, in jam and candied fruit. It is a hybrid between an eremocitrus glauca and a citrange (poncirus x orange). Plant of great resistance to the cold. Resists until -14°.

I don't usually take these details in descriptions from nurseries very serious, as they often don't put a huge amount of thought and care into these. But I noticed the similarity to what Olivier said.

[SoCal2warm]

I think Citrangeremos are hybrids between Eremocitrus x Citrange.

[pagnr]

Here's a picture of my Eremolemon Coachella on poncirus.

So what is the other Citrus at your fingertips ?
Looks like my "Microcitrus warburgiana". Mine has dark red new growth tips.
It came from an Australian arboretum, probably first from the UC Riverside collection as seed.

[Peep]

So what is the other Citrus at your fingertips ?

I believe it's my Shekwasha.

@SoCal2warm

Yes that's right, it's a cross with citrange. So Citrangeremo should be 25% ponicrus I think, and makes me wonder why it's a better mouth eating fruit than Eremorange...

[Till]

Peep, my Citrangeremo grows well but never fruited. So I do not know how it tastes. But we should not be too skeptical what regards the taste. Poncirus has a very nice aroma besides its famous (horrible) off-flavours. Ilya's Starton (Swingle 5 Star x Morton) has much Poncirus in it but tastes very good.

[mikkel]

Somewhat theoretically speaking A hybrid of Poncirus and a Citrus does not necessarily have 50% Poncirus gene. an F2 like Eremoorgange or Eremocitrange not necessarily 25%.

With each new pollination there is a recombination of genes.

Which genes are expressed phenotypically varies from seedling to seedling. Therefore, hybrids vary greatly in their characteristics from seedling to seedling. Some have poncius traits, others less or not at all.

Percentages are purely hypothetical.

[bussone]

So what is the other Citrus at your fingertips ?

I believe it's my Shekwasha.

@SoCal2warm

Yes that's right, it's a cross with citrange. So Citrangeremo should be 25% ponicrus I think, and makes me wonder why it's a better mouth eating fruit than Eremorange...

Only a 25% tendency towards vesicles rather than a 50% tendency might make it better eating out of hand? The Australian/PNG citrus tends to be dry.

Re: poncirus flavors, it's interesting that the jelly basically tastes of lemon with more floral overtones. If you can knock out the menthol resin, it's not bad.

[BorisR]

Somewhat theoretically speaking A hybrid of Poncirus and a Citrus does not necessarily have 50% Poncirus gene. an F2 like Eremoorgange or Eremocitrange not necessarily 25%.

I agree about 25%, but not about 50%.

[mikkel]

You are right, of course. In F1, the genes are always distributed 50:50 (in genotype). What I actually meant was that the phenotypic trait expression does not necessarily have to be 50:50.
The phenotypic expression of the poncirus genes depends very much on the dominance/recessive properties of the individual genes.
(There are also other factors)