Texas persimmon seeds

[D-Grower]

Whenever anyone can harvest some Texas persimmon I'd appreciate if I could get bulk seeds at a fair price. I'd like to grow a bunch out for my nursery stock. Can trade American persimmon seeds or anything else for them too. Please let me know.

Thanks! DG

[Pokeweed]

I'll try my sources again. D

[FloridaManDan]

Hey D,

FigTex was recently selling large well-priced quantities of texas persimmon on figbid, looks like his profile disappeared though?
If you happen to be part of any of those other fig sites and forums, he's on there, you could try messaging him.

[D-Grower]

Thanks y'all! I don't have an account on fig bid but I have checked the site out before. I should probably sign up.

[CarolinaZone]

Any you guys know where I can get some cuttings froma plant with bigger fruit. Mine are small and about the size of a pinto bean.

[FloridaManDan]

@CarolinaZone honestly I would just start reaching out to all the nurseries that have them available in the southwest and see if they'll sell cuttings, bound to be one with pictures of their fruit. I do wish this was a more popular and readily available plant.

[D-Grower]

I have 3 small ones growing out. Gonna be awhile before fruit though. I want them mostly to sell in my nursery. I'd like to see this species more available too. Really cool native fruit. Definitely want to try some myself. I really like American persimmon fruit. Just have to eat them when fully ripe.

[Pokeweed]

They are really slow growers. I have a male that's about 15 years old and was probably 9 when it started flowering. I have a female that has been flowering a couple of years now but no fruit yet.

[FloridaManDan]

When yall get fruits in 5-10 years hit ya boy up 

Its a shame that Chocolate sapote doesnt grow that far north, definitely my favorite of all the persimmons. If all my recent grafts hadn't failed, I would've loved to trial one in Houston.

[drymifolia]

It's not an affordable bulk price, but I was very happy with the seeds I got last year from BlueGenesStudio on Etsy, nearly 100% germination. They are definitely slow growing trees, though! Here's the largest one about 11 months from when it sprouted:

When yall get fruits in 5-10 years hit ya boy up 

Its a shame that Chocolate sapote doesnt grow that far north, definitely my favorite of all the persimmons. If all my recent grafts hadn't failed, I would've loved to trial one in Houston.

My main interest in growing Diospyros texana is to see if it can cross with Diospyros digyna, if that's the fruit you mean (usually I've heard it called black sapote). Their native range is not quite overlapping, and they are both diploid, and I've not been able to find any report of anyone trying to cross them. It is possible no one has? I'm hoping their geographic separation is the only thing that kept them from naturally hybridizing.

I also got a box of fruit from MarkInTexas last year, I wasn't a huge fan, but they were likely picked a little early. I don't think he's active on here anymore, but if you know how to get in touch with him he'd probably send a box. He hates the fruit and wants to send it to people so they will also hate it instead of hyping it .

[D-Grower]

I did manage getting some seeds. I'm not picky at all about flavors so it's possible I might like them. Do have 3 older trees I got from member pokeweed awhile back. They look good but certainly grow slowly. We've got American persimmon trees all over around here. Maybe someday I'll get hybrids from trees on my land. Be interesting to see how they mix. Hopefully the Texas persimmon seeds I got will sprout good. Still stratifying them now.

[drymifolia]

I did manage getting some seeds. I'm not picky at all about flavors so it's possible I might like them. Do have 3 older trees I got from member pokeweed awhile back. They look good but certainly grow slowly. We've got American persimmon trees all over around here. Maybe someday I'll get hybrids from trees on my land. Be interesting to see how they mix. Hopefully the Texas persimmon seeds I got will sprout good. Still stratifying them now.

I don't believe they can cross with virginiana, since their native range does overlap a little bit in northeastern Texas, so they would likely have naturally hybridized if they could. Their ploidy doesn't match (diploid vs tetraploid/hexaploid depending on which virginiana you have), so you'd probably have to double (or triple) the texana chromosomes, and even then something like embryo rescue may be required. Since black sapote is also diploid, I hope there's a chance of crossing, albeit not a great one.

[Reedo]

Here is a great article on germinating D. texana seeds. The most important takeaway is keeping soil temps between 70-80ºf. Anything cooler and germination rate drops off sharply.

https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/index.php/jrm/article/download/7699/7311

[drymifolia]

Here is a great article on germinating D. texana seeds. The most important takeaway is keeping soil temps between 70-80ºf. Anything cooler and germination rate drops off sharply.

https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/index.php/jrm/article/download/7699/7311

One thing not mentioned there (because they started with dried seeds in all their seed groups), but I found nearly zero germination with seeds placed directly from fresh fruit into moist soil, even heated. I gave up on the community pot and left it out all summer (dry season) where it got totally dried out. Then, when we started getting fall rains a few weeks ago there were new sprouts, and after moving it on a heating pad lots of new ones came up.

So, unlike some other persimmons, I think you should dry the seeds before germination, if you have seeds straight from fruit. If you bought seeds that are already dried, they are good to go.

[Reedo]

Here is a great article on germinating D. texana seeds. The most important takeaway is keeping soil temps between 70-80ºf. Anything cooler and germination rate drops off sharply.

https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/index.php/jrm/article/download/7699/7311

One thing not mentioned there (because they started with dried seeds in all their seed groups), but I found nearly zero germination with seeds placed directly from fresh fruit into moist soil, even heated. I gave up on the community pot and left it out all summer (dry season) where it got totally dried out. Then, when we started getting fall rains a few weeks ago there were new sprouts, and after moving it on a heating pad lots of new ones came up.

So, unlike some other persimmons, I think you should dry the seeds before germination, if you have seeds straight from fruit. If you bought seeds that are already dried, they are good to go.

Thanks for the notes! That's good insight.

[Rispa]

I did manage getting some seeds. I'm not picky at all about flavors so it's possible I might like them. Do have 3 older trees I got from member pokeweed awhile back. They look good but certainly grow slowly. We've got American persimmon trees all over around here. Maybe someday I'll get hybrids from trees on my land. Be interesting to see how they mix. Hopefully the Texas persimmon seeds I got will sprout good. Still stratifying them now.

I don't believe they can cross with virginiana, since their native range does overlap a little bit in northeastern Texas, so they would likely have naturally hybridized if they could. Their ploidy doesn't match (diploid vs tetraploid/hexaploid depending on which virginiana you have), so you'd probably have to double (or triple) the texana chromosomes, and even then something like embryo rescue may be required. Since black sapote is also diploid, I hope there's a chance of crossing, albeit not a great one.

Where could I go to learn more about to mess with the genes  and embryo rescue like you're describing?

[drymifolia]

Where could I go to learn more about to mess with the genes  and embryo rescue like you're describing?

Chromosome doubling is probably not something a hobbyist should dabble in. I looked into it once, and the main chemical used in botanical research is "colchicine," which is a very dangerous (lethal) toxin for humans. I've read a lot about it in research papers, but it just sounds like something I don't want to mess around with. You can google "colchicine" and "chromosome doubling" to find more info if you're less risk-adverse than me.

Embryo rescue is sometimes used when making interspecies or intergeneric hybrids, where you have successful pollination but something about the hybrid results in the plant embryo being unable to grow correctly (i.e., the seeds all die during germination). Essentially, you cut open the germinated seed and treat the embryo like a tissue culture, nursing it to life. Here's a good overview of the process:

https://www.mdpi.com/2223-7747/12/17/3106

[Rispa]

Where could I go to learn more about to mess with the genes  and embryo rescue like you're describing?

Chromosome doubling is probably not something a hobbyist should dabble in. I looked into it once, and the main chemical used in botanical research is "colchicine," which is a very dangerous (lethal) toxin for humans. I've read a lot about it in research papers, but it just sounds like something I don't want to mess around with. You can google "colchicine" and "chromosome doubling" to find more info if you're less risk-adverse than me.

Embryo rescue is sometimes used when making interspecies or intergeneric hybrids, where you have successful pollination but something about the hybrid results in the plant embryo being unable to grow correctly (i.e., the seeds all die during germination). Essentially, you cut open the germinated seed and treat the embryo like a tissue culture, nursing it to life. Here's a good overview of the process:

https://www.mdpi.com/2223-7747/12/17/3106

Very cool. I'm just interested in reading about it, not trying it. Thank you for better search terms.