Picking my first Xie Shans

[FruitGrower]

My Xie Shan fruited for the first time this year and the first fruits are coloring up.  Can anyone give any insight on what factors I should look for to pick it at optimal ripeness. I am in Miami if that helps.  Thanks for any insight.

[FruitGrower]

My Xie Shan fruited for the first time this year and the first fruits are coloring up.  Can anyone give any insight on what factors I should look for to pick it at optimal ripeness. I am in Miami if that helps.  Thanks for any insight.

Here’s some pics.

[brian]

These may be optimally ripe while still green even in cooler areas.   I suggest picking one of the yellow ones and see how it is.   

I recall reading that in very warm locations such as yours citrus may not ever color up properly and if you wait for orange it may spoiled.  I have an off-season crop of Dekopan/Shiranui/Sumo now that is still only half yellow but I think is actually overripe, because it matured during summer.

[FruitGrower]

These may be optimally ripe while still green even in cooler areas.   I suggest picking one of the yellow ones and see how it is.   

I recall reading that in very warm locations such as yours citrus may not ever color up properly and if you wait for orange it may spoiled.  I have an off-season crop of Dekopan/Shiranui/Sumo now that is still only half yellow but I think is actually overripe, because it matured during summer.

I did as you suggested but the fruits were dry and bland. Do you think they may get juicer with time?

[Millet]

Absolutely the fruits of any citrus variety become better with the age of the tree. Each year the fruit will improve.  Generally a 5 year old tree produces high quality fruit.  I remember Dr. Malcolm Manners writing on the old forum, the very best fruit he ever ate was from a 25 year old grapefruit tree growing on the grounds of Florida Southern University. 

[FruitGrower]

Absolutely the fruits of any citrus variety become better with the age of the tree. Each year the fruit will improve.  Generally a 5 year old tree produces high quality fruit.  I remember Dr. Malcolm Manners writing on the old forum, the very best fruit he ever ate was from a 25 year old grapefruit tree growing on the grounds of Florida Southern University.

Thank you Millet, this is one of the things I had considered. It makes sense as the tree is only 3-4 years old.

[brian]

I did as you suggested but the fruits were dry and bland. Do you think they may get juicer with time?

FruitGrower, I suspect that this crop of your fruits are already overripe and will only get worse with time.  However, as Millet said the quality of future crops should improve as years go by. 

I suggest you pick some of the greenest, least ripe-appearing fruit and see how they are.  They may be better than the yellow ones.  If they are, you should probably pick all of the fruits immediately and make a note to pick them green next year.

[mbmango]

Can off-season fruit ever develop properly?  I just picked my last off-season Shiranui from a late bloom last year, but it was pretty awful.  I haven't had any luck with any off-season fruits so far.  Next time, I'm just going to remove them at the close of the season, since it does seem to needlessly drain energy from those branches.

[sc4001992]

mbmango, I have never had any good tasting off-season citrus fruits. If there are some still hanging late, I just cut them off and not waste any energy on the branches. The only citrus fruits that seems to be good for me is my Valencia orange. It seems to have ripe fruit from Jan-July and they all tastes good. This is my variegated valencia with some normal green branches that have normal fruits.

[brian]

The greener of my current off-season crop of Shiranui/Dekopan/Sumo are decent, but not as good as the usual winter crop.   I let them become overripe because I was waiting for the orange color, like FruitGrower is with his Xie Shan, but because it is so warm the orange coloration may never come.

[sc4001992]

Wow, you still have sumo fruits on your tree this late. I have never heard of anyone else with ripe sumo in September. Let us know if the inside flesh is dried up or is still good to eat.

[FruitGrower]

I did as you suggested but the fruits were dry and bland. Do you think they may get juicer with time?

FruitGrower, I suspect that this crop of your fruits are already overripe and will only get worse with time.  However, as Millet said the quality of future crops should improve as years go by. 

I suggest you pick some of the greenest, least ripe-appearing fruit and see how they are.  They may be better than the yellow ones.  If they are, you should probably pick all of the fruits immediately and make a note to pick them green next year.

Thank you. I did as you suggested and picked a green fruit that is close to full size and it was much better than the overripe ones (I picked the other one with color for wither comparison), though still not great. I’m hoping the fruit improves with tree age.

Does this not getting orange color in warm climates apply to other citrus or just satsumas? I have other types and wondering if I should do the same.

On a related note, do citrus need heat or cool to sweeten the fruit? I keep reading conflicting information.

Thanks again!

[brian]

Wow, you still have sumo fruits on your tree this last. I have never heard of anyone else with ripe sumo in September. Let us know if the inside flesh is dried up or is still good to eat.

These set *way* out of season, it isn't that they have been hanging on the tree all this time since winter.   They started ripening in summer.  I also have some much less mature fruits currently maturing at what I think is the normal schedule.  The ones that are now yellow are becoming overripe, but the green-to-20% yellow are pretty good tasting though not as good as the usual crop.  When cropping on a normal schedule they are best when full orange.


FruitGrower, I don't have a good understanding of citrus growing in tropical or near-tropical regions.  I have read that citrus in Caribbean and India do not ripen to orange color and that cool weather is required for orange coloration, but I am not sure if that only applies to certain varieties or not. 

As far as sweetening the fruit, again I am not confident in what is normal but I understand that some citrus, notably grapefruits, require high peak temperatures for some time to sweeten fully.  I don't have details and I am not sure of the extent of it.

[Millet]

My Shiranui /Dekopon are still green, and have not started to turn color...

[Galatians522]

Does this not getting orange color in warm climates apply to other citrus or just satsumas? I have other types and wondering if I should do the same.

On a related note, do citrus need heat or cool to sweeten the fruit? I keep reading conflicting information.

Thanks again!

Citrus peels change color due to the loss of chlorophyll in the peel from cool weather (just like fall leaves up north). I believe you will only have an issue with your early season fruit not turning color. The mid and late season varieties should get enough cold to turn color. Valencias will go from green to orange and then back to green (around June if they make it that long) as chlorophyll comes back into the peel.

As to your other question, it is my understanding that warm weather durring ripening increases sugars while cool weather increases acids (flavor). Its the balance between the two that make the fruit taste good. Some fruits naturally have high sugars and others have high acids. That is why some varieties taste better when grown in California and others taste better when grown in Florida. That being said, a lot of old Crackers say that cool weather makes the fruit sweeter. I wonder if this is just the natural result of the ripening process or if there is an effect from the dry weather that comes with the winter months concentrating the sugars that are already in the fruit. I'm sure that made things crystal clear for you.  lol!

[FruitGrower]

Does this not getting orange color in warm climates apply to other citrus or just satsumas? I have other types and wondering if I should do the same.

On a related note, do citrus need heat or cool to sweeten the fruit? I keep reading conflicting information.

Thanks again!

Citrus peels change color due to the loss of chlorophyll in the peel from cool weather (just like fall leaves up north). I believe you will only have an issue with your early season fruit not turning color. The mid and late season varieties should get enough cold to turn color. Valencias will go from green to orange and then back to green (around June if they make it that long) as chlorophyll comes back into the peel.

As to your other question, it is my understanding that warm weather durring ripening increases sugars while cool weather increases acids (flavor). Its the balance between the two that make the fruit taste good. Some fruits naturally have high sugars and others have high acids. That is why some varieties taste better when grown in California and others taste better when grown in Florida. That being said, a lot of old Crackers say that cool weather makes the fruit sweeter. I wonder if this is just the natural result of the ripening process or if there is an effect from the dry weather that comes with the winter months concentrating the sugars that are already in the fruit. I'm sure that made things crystal clear for you.  lol!

Thank you both for your responses and Galatians, this helped me tremendously as I’d never gotten a clear answer on this.  What you say makes perfect sense. I’m going to bookmark this thread and report back what I observe with my varieties now that they’re coming into production.

For comparison, I cut up a Ponkan I knocked off the tree and it was much juicer and flavorful but very acidic, with no sweetness. Here’s some pics.

[Sylvain]

Does this not getting orange color in warm climates apply to other citrus or just satsumas?

At least oranges  stay green in equatorial weathers.

[sc4001992]

I have a large citrus tree which is multi-grafted in the front yard. That tree has some good size Ponkan branches that always has good tasting fruits. I think your green ponkan is the normal fruits and it will not turn color for another few months. My tree has many Ponkan fruits now similar to yours, but that is normal for my tree here. The fruits will turn color from November - January when my fruits are ripe here.

Here's my Ponkan fruits from previous years (ripen in December).

[FruitGrower]

I have a large citrus tree which is multi-grafted in the front yard. That tree has some good size Ponkan branches that always has good tasting fruits. I think your green ponkan is the normal fruits and it will not turn color for another few months. My tree has many Ponkan fruits now similar to yours, but that is normal for my tree here. The fruits will turn color from November - January when my fruits are ripe here.

Here's my Ponkan fruits from previous years (ripen in December).

I appreciate that input. I did intend to do that with the Ponkan as the flavor was there, it was just too acidic.

Do you have any recommendations for other sings I should be looking for?

[sc4001992]

For Ponkan, when it is ripe, the skin will get a little puffy, so if you squeeze it, you can tell the skin is not tight to the inside flesh. You can always taste one fruit when you see it turn yellow/orange to see if it's sweet. If I leave the fruits ripe on the tree to long (2-3 wks after orange color) then the inside flesh will be dry with not much juice.

[FruitGrower]

For Ponkan, when it is ripe, the skin will get a little puffy, so if you squeeze it, you can tell the skin is not tight to the inside flesh. You can always taste one fruit when you see it turn yellow/orange to see if it's sweet. If I leave the fruits ripe on the tree to long (2-3 wks after orange color) then the inside flesh will be dry with not much juice.

Thank you 🙏

[pinkturtle]

My Xie Shans are starting to change color.  They should ready to pick soon.

[FruitGrower]

My Xie Shans are starting to change color.  They should ready to pick soon.

Nice! Would you mind sharing how old your tree is and how the fruit quality is once you harvest?

My tree, about 3-4 years old, produced its best crop this year but the fruit quality was poor; I wanted to see if that was a function of the age of the tree or environmental factors.

Thanks.

[brian]

I have two small Xie Shan trees, and in total they are holding five or six fruit.  Coloration right now is much like pinkturtle's photo.  I picked one the other day at green-yellow stage and it was not very sweet.  I am going to give the rest more time.

[sc4001992]

My grafts are 3 yrs old now, don't get much fruit on them. My fruits usually ripens by December in SoCal.

But my unknown (lost tag) madarin that had 23 fruits in one cluster is doing well. I took some cuttings last year to move the branch to another tree before I cut down most of that large grapefruit tree which has pomelos and oranges grafted on the tree. This year the small branches has about 10 fruits in the cluster. This madarin ripens around December, tastes as good as my Xie Shan but has many more fruits.