Author Topic: Pugging a mango  (Read 5260 times)

Tropheus76

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Pugging a mango
« on: April 05, 2016, 07:46:47 AM »
Man that term sounds wrong. Anyway I have a potted graham mango I got a couple years ago and kinda let it do its thing without having read up on heavy pruning to get a bushy look to it. Then I read about pugging. Mine is currently about 7 foot tall and very leggy. I would like to put it in the ground but am concerned about all that exposed trunk. Its about 2.5 inches wide at the 24" mark. Would I be able to pug this guy back to 24" to 26" or is it too late? It also has a nasty lean to it despite having been velcro'd to a thick metal pole.

FruitFreak

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2016, 08:06:28 AM »
Not too late, just do it at the right time of the year.  I would use a sterilized pruning saw and seal the wound.  Also, one thing I've learned is some varieties respond differently to topping (not sure about Graham).
- Marley

Tropheus76

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2016, 08:32:10 AM »
What would be the right time of the year, winter or summer when its actually going to grow immediately?

Also, flower panicles, when removing fruitlets do you remove them individually or knock off the whole panicle?

skhan

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2016, 08:41:15 AM »
A forum member uploaded a video of Dr. Ledesma's talk on mangos recently.
IIRC she was saying that heavy pruning (more than a 3rd of the tree) should be done in spring. Gives the tree some time to rebound.

gunnar429

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2016, 10:12:12 AM »
I am no expert but here in FL, seems like Spring would be the best time.  The trees are waking up and will be actively growing.  If you are concerned about sunburn on the trunk, you could build a makeshift structure to shade it, wrap it with shadecloth, or paint it white.  I doubt any of that would be necessary because the leaves would grow quickly and shade out the trunk by the time the sun's intensity increases for the Summer.
~Jeff

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zands

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2016, 08:59:40 PM »
A mango tree once pugged, cannot be unpugged.
This tree must be pot bound.
Unbind the roots
Cut away at circling roots at the bottom of the pot if you have them. I have even stabbed upward into the bottom of a rootbound mango tree with a steak knife to loosen things (roots) up.
Plant in a nice hole with 50% black dirt from Home Depot and 50% native dirt from the top. You can toss away some of the subsoil.
Water it, some wood chip mulch to hold in moisture, no fertilizer for a month
Let it settle in for one month.
Then cut way gradually
You can post a photo but I think you can get away without such a drastic pugging
I would think more like topping off at 36" to 48" and including a few branches you can cut back...pugging some branches also means you will get that mango inclined towards that bushiness you want.

It seems to me the pugging you described means you end up with only the trunk left and no branches. Pugged at 2ft high

_____________________________

A few years ago I did buy a beanpole of a mango tree. It was 4ft high. Nice leaves spouting from the trunk but no real branching out. I was going to top it off at 3ft to induce some branching out but I restrained myself. IIRC bsbullie here told to let it be. Four years later it is a normally branched out mango tree
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 09:10:34 PM by zands »

FruitFreak

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2016, 10:38:01 PM »
A mango tree once pugged, cannot be unpugged.
This tree must be pot bound.
Unbind the roots
Cut away at circling roots at the bottom of the pot if you have them. I have even stabbed upward into the bottom of a rootbound mango tree with a steak knife to loosen things (roots) up.
Plant in a nice hole with 50% black dirt from Home Depot and 50% native dirt from the top. You can toss away some of the subsoil.
Water it, some wood chip mulch to hold in moisture, no fertilizer for a month
Let it settle in for one month.
Then cut way gradually
You can post a photo but I think you can get away without such a drastic pugging
I would think more like topping off at 36" to 48" and including a few branches you can cut back...pugging some branches also means you will get that mango inclined towards that bushiness you want.

It seems to me the pugging you described means you end up with only the trunk left and no branches. Pugged at 2ft high

_____________________________

A few years ago I did buy a beanpole of a mango tree. It was 4ft high. Nice leaves spouting from the trunk but no real branching out. I was going to top it off at 3ft to induce some branching out but I restrained myself. IIRC bsbullie here told to let it be. Four years later it is a normally branched out mango tree

Zands brings up a very good point.  To be on the safe side install the tree in ground and wait for it to show signs of growth prior to topping.  Sometimes too much stress can overcome a tree.
- Marley

gnappi

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2016, 11:08:46 PM »
All this talk of pugging... I guess I am the only one here that wants to walk under my trees and not around them?
Regards,

   Gary

puglvr1

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2016, 07:45:19 AM »

Pugging is NOT for everyone...its for people that have limited space or wants to keep their mango trees low and bushy. Some like to have easy access to spraying the tree with fungicide/fertillizer without using ladders or picking fruit easily. Its a different way of growing mangoes from the traditional "plant it and let it do its thing"...there's nothing wrong with that way either  :D

Good luck with your tree Tropheus76 with whatever you decide to do  :D

edzone9

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2016, 07:58:33 AM »
I have pugged all of my mango trees , all are doing great !

Good luck .
Ed
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Tropheus76

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2016, 07:58:55 AM »
This is a several year old tree in a 15 gal root pruning pot so it wont be root bound for quite a while. All of the branches are at the very top with no branches at all the first 3.5 feet or so which makes it extremely top heavy, especially when flower panicles come out.

Gnappi- some of us live in less than ideal areas for mangos. With research saying bushy formed mangos have a better chance of surviving cold weather, every degree counts and I don't have time or ability to seriously protect every tropical tree I have not in a pot, especially with the wonky weather in my area. 20 miles from Orlando and 20 from Cocoa yet my temp can be as much as 11 degrees different between either of them on any given winter night.

WGphil

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2016, 08:16:07 AM »
I had a mango limb snap and it left a hole in the limb rain can get into the rest of the tree.   

What do you seal this big a hole with?

bsbullie

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2016, 08:50:11 AM »
Some of what I am about to say is more of an issue for Floridians or those who live in an area with high rainfall and constant humid conditions.  Some problems with severely cutting back a mango where branches are a couple feet from the ground:

- no air flow under/thriugh the tree which leads to potential dungal issues.

- fruit that develops on the lower branches (less than 3 feet from the ground ) will have a tendency yo touch or be extremely close to the ground, causing potential rotting, poorly developed and/or fruit that becomes food for vermin.

- should these low branches described above snap at the trunk, it could be dangerously close to the graft area.
- Rob

Mark in Texas

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2016, 09:08:39 AM »
All this talk of pugging... I guess I am the only one here that wants to walk under my trees and not around them?

Am I the only one that hates the term "pug"?   ;D  I just TOPPED my Lemon Zest right above the node located above the graft upon seeing nubs of foliage trying to push.  I've also topped Mallika twice, VERY low to the ground and now have a 3 scaffold branching tidy tree that is loaded with blooms.

LZ before:



After:


« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 09:13:51 AM by Mark in Texas »

Mark in Texas

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2016, 09:11:49 AM »
Plant in a nice hole with 50% black dirt from Home Depot and 50% native dirt from the top. You can toss away some of the subsoil.

Just a note.....don't give a crap about the erroneous transplanting advice folks read on the plant label - if you have clay and amend your backfill you WILL kill your tree eventually. It will drown in the glazed pot you just made.

Mark

puglvr1

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2016, 09:19:57 AM »
I agree with Rob that you need to make sure you can see your trunk ( so when you pug it make sure there is plenty of room for air flow) underneath the tree...the older the tree gets the taller it gets so I can easily cut some of the lower limbs on mine so we get that airflow through out the tree, I've also removed a branch in the inner part of the tree so the sun/air can get inside the canopy...

Nice job Mark!

Even my pugged trees have visible trunk  ;)...this pic is from a couple of years ago.


Trop, I'm not recommending you do this to your tree but I have done it years ago ( planted it inground)...this tree unfortunately "froze" the following winter after this picture was taken during our 2010? deadly freeze...had lows in the low to mid 20's that winter for several days in a row  :'(...lost a few lychee and mango trees that year.

Planting it in the ground definitely has a much better recovery/growth period than potted ones at least with mine.
 Planted it in July and by October it was growing nicely...

Haden mango stood about 6-6 1/2 ft from the ground.


First cut right after planting...but it was still too tall for me so I really pugged it a couple of days later...


I decided on this height...I knew Haden was going to be a very large tree.


About 3 months later (Oct.), this is what it looked like.


This was an experiment for me and I don't like telling people to do this to their own tree ( in case the tree doesn't survive) I would feel very guilty. I just wanted to share my own experience with this tree  ;)


Mark in Texas

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2016, 09:30:24 AM »
Nice yob!  :) Yep, each person will have to decide based on their environment how and what to do, if anything.  If I was in Florida I would definately have at least 1' of space between the lowest branches and the soil.  I've heard LZ is a beast so I wanted to start early to train it low.

Here's the Mallika now which was topped twice:





zands

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2016, 10:14:25 AM »
I had a mango limb snap and it left a hole in the limb rain can get into the rest of the tree.   

What do you seal this big a hole with?

Fruitlovers (Hawaii) made comments I imitated. I applied a 50/50 mix of clay and my native soil over it. Wetted it first. There is no clay where I live but had some leftover pottery clay. Fruitlovers soil has natural clay content so he wet it and applied to the wound. If you have some good clay content in yr soil then wet it and apply. Might have to reapply a few times. Summary is that clay is a healing factor.

gnappi

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2016, 03:36:30 PM »
I GET the pugging but dont "get" it at the same time.

I too have limited space. My lychee was allowed to branch out 3' from the ground the canopy is 12 ft wide and i have to walk around it. The space under it is useless.

My Glenn I let branch at 5+ ft and the canopy is also 12 ft and I can walk around it. See what I mean? My limited space is far more usable with the canopy off the ground.

Now if the tree was kept at 6-7 ft tall for harvesting I "get" it :-)

Regards,

   Gary

puglvr1

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2016, 03:48:02 PM »

"Now if the tree was kept at 6-7 ft tall for harvesting I "get" it :-)"

Exactly,lol...that's appx. the size I'm trying to shoot for 7ft to 10ft tall :o)...I don't want to get it too wide for the exact reasons you mention...too wide isn't good either and takes up a lot of space...its all good  :)

WGphil

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2016, 05:21:44 PM »
Thanks Zands. 

Live near Clermont so I have red clay hills to white clay marl a few feet down.   I will give it a try and let you know. 

bsbullie

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2016, 05:50:21 PM »
Mangoes compartmentalize and heal well, do nothing.
- Rob

WGphil

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Re: Pugging a mango
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2016, 12:12:27 PM »
Doing nothing is my best attribute...

Thanks.