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Messages - greg_D

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1
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cacao for sale at H-Mart
« on: February 12, 2025, 08:59:54 PM »
Congrats!  How's it taste?
The premier chocolate refiner (a tricked out wet grinder) isn't too pricey.  I've had mine for ~10 years, it's a lot of fun to whip out a couple times a year and makes for some seriously amazing silky textures, but omg what a pain to clean.

Thank you! It's decent, texture is weird but tastes like chocolate!

2
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cacao for sale at H-Mart
« on: February 12, 2025, 06:09:33 AM »
Ta da


3
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cacao for sale at H-Mart
« on: February 11, 2025, 08:22:52 PM »
Successfully achieved some level of fermentation using the contents of a single pod. Attached a photo of one of the seeds cut open. When I did this same 'cut test' a few days ago, the seeds were sort of grey with a ring of vibrant purple on the inside. Now they are closer to a deep brown.

Deep brown is what you want. They seem like they're not *quite* there yet (still a little bit of a purple tint), so I *could* ferment them more, but I don't want to risk over fermentation, especially because I've never done this before and don't want to ruin it. If the final chocolate flavor is a bit weaker than what it could be that's fine.

I looked up the temperature the beans tend to reach during fermentation, set a sous vide bath to a temperature within that range (116 F), then put a glass fermentation jar in the sous vide bath (with the seeds in the jar). Shook it every couple days, drained excess liquid, and looked for any signs of mold etc. I had the sous vide running and the water heated the entire fermentation (a week and a few days). Some aluminum foil did a great job of controlling evaporation from the sous vide bath.

Roasting now in the oven (300 F for 90 minutes) then will peel off the outer coating and grind the nibs. I know there are limits to how well you can do that without specialized equipment but I'm okay with it being grainy.

Very much enjoying the process, and the other members of the household are also finding it interesting. Will also be a fun thing to mention that I did in future conversations.


5
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cacao for sale at H-Mart
« on: February 08, 2025, 12:13:45 AM »
I agree that it's definitely more of a novelty. So many of us only know chocolate as a finished product from the supermarket; it's cool to actually go through the steps of making it. That said it's not at all practical.

6
Does any one know the fruit quality of Monstera Deliciosa var Sierrana

There's a couple different clones passed around as Sierrana. One is from Tom Piergrossi in Hawaii and is called the 'Hawaiian clone.' He originally got it from a plant sale in San Diego. The other is called the 'real Sierrana' and I'm less familiar with its origin.

If you reach out to Tom he might have info on how the fruit of his Sierrana tastes.

7
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cacao for sale at H-Mart
« on: February 07, 2025, 04:00:15 AM »
People in temperate climates have successfully gotten them to flowering size, but basically by growing it indoors as a giant houseplant. You would also likely need two of them to get fruit. They're typically self-incompatible.

I think the fruit is fun to buy as a novelty, to try it and taste the pulp. If you leave the pulp on, you can ferment the seeds and actually make chocolate. The end result will be a bit grittier than what you're used to (you need specialized equipment to sufficiently grind the cacao nibs), but if otherwise done correctly you can still create something that is obviously and identifiably chocolate.

8
greg_D  ,  If you read careful and talk to some of the hardcore believer "large form, small form", then the term meaning more than what you think it is. Not just same species, it also the same variety base on them definition. Basically, they mean a "small form" (M.  borsigiana ) will turn to " large form" (M. deliciosa) when it matures.  Using dogs for example is very good, but it not relevant to what they mean " large form, small form ". There is no information of if they done DNA testing to know for sure same species plant or not. Let say if those plants are the same species base on what they told us, but still those plants are not the same varieties. Please let me and other know if you find information about they tested DNA for those Monsteras.

 Monstera tacanaenis  was not " recently described " . If you look at the photo on the paper stated 2019. Besides that you may get an information of a" Japanese discovered this plant long time ago", then it would have more detail photo of the plant (It was someone posted a section of an article about this in Facebook group page years ago).

  "Tauerii is a dwarf-type" from commercial growers' information. There is no photo or more details of a mature fruited plant that we can look at. Similar to " M. Compacta" . If you have photo information of mature fruited plants, then let us know.

 Monstera borsigiana VS deliciosa ( small form , large form what are they ?)   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBprGjzCSGg

Seeds Grown Monstera deliciosa Vs M. borsigiana ( large form, small form what are they...)    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy4I4S4xs9s

Seeds Grown Monstera borsigiana Vs Monstera deliciosa (large form, small form, what are they...)       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b60voBq-gOk







 

fliptop, if you grow it for my own use, then I would not pick those fruits at that stage. Could let it be on its vine for few more weeks -months to the point at the end of fruit green scales open up little. At that time, you pick it and bring it to room temperature natural let it ripen (you can cover it with paper or not, but don't force it ripen with other fruit or with seal container). This can take about 2 to 3 days for the first section ripen fruit ready. It should ripen one section at a time.  A whole fruit ripe at the same time is not a good thing, that why you do not force it ripen with other fruit or in sealed container.  The A well mature fruit should not take a week or more for ripen after picked. Do not go by "sap on it". Young or mature fruit got damaged can show sap.

What to Look for When Harvesting Monstera Deliciosa Fruits     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rxjriRukhU

Please share photo of your mature fruited plant, this way we can learn about it.  Growers in Hawaii, Florida and other states please post your mature Monstera deliciosa. Thank you.

 

Thank you, interesting. I think we basically agree. Also I'm surprised it was described in 2019. I remember when it was first described. It felt recent but I guess it really has been years.

Also I agree with you about when to harvest.

9
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Large Fruited Strawberry Guava
« on: February 04, 2025, 02:43:27 PM »
I bought those seeds 4 yrs ago. It fruited last year.
They did get that dark color for me. They were small, soft and sweet like strawberry guavas.
For some reason i can't attach the image, low memory message.

I'm planning to grow a number of them out, then cull once they fruit

10
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Large Fruited Strawberry Guava
« on: February 03, 2025, 07:13:56 PM »
Germination successful


11
During 22+ years of growing and studying both varieties, we found that if you grow it for fruit then Monstera deliciosa is the one to grow. Keep in mind even with the right variety, you have to harvest a fully mature fruit and have it ripened correctly for best quality fruit.

 Many people confused between 2 varieties of Monstera borsigiana /Monstera var. borsigiana  Vs Monstera deliciosa due to how they look somewhat similar to each other when they are young plants. There are some people call them large form and small form because word of mouth. Not many of them actually take time to grow these two varieties side by side for examination. They believe the term   " large form and small form" meaning Monstera borsigiana /Monstera var. borsigiana  and   Monstera deliciosa are the same species and the same variety.

"Albo" just mean white. It is not a plant name.  Albo variegata is the term that they use to describe a plant with white/creamy white variegated.  It applies to both varieties, Monstera borsigiana /Monstera var. borsigiana  and   Monstera deliciosa.

Monstera borsigiana albo variegata   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yucIGIkITA8

Monstera deliciosa albo variegata (seed grown) Monstera northern lights   https://www.youtube.com/shorts/bcLCTcX-VHg

This video has more examples of Monstera albo variegata including Monstera deliciosa albo variegata 'Thai Constellation'   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBprGjzCSGg
 
Many Monstera deliciosa albo variegata 'Thai Constellation' in the market today were from TC. It needs more time to adjust to outside of the lab, than the one was propagated from cutting of a plant already grown many years in natural environment.

My advice is collecting the right ID plant and hands on growing it for years to learn about them.

The plants known as 'large form' 'deliciosa' etc and 'small form' 'borsigiana' etc are taxonomically the same species, Monstera deliciosa. They just represent variation within the species. It's similar to how a chihuahua and a rottweiler are the same species (Canis familiaris, the domestic dog). We understand they are the same species, but we also understand that if you feed a chihuahua really well, it will never become a rottweiler. In the aroid collector community, the debate about this could analogized to one person saying 'chihuahuas and rottweilers are different' and another person replying 'no they're not, they're the same species,' when in fact both are true (they are different and they are the same species).

Sometimes the 'they're the same species' people will bring up the fact that 'borsigiana' is a synonym of deliciosa, but again, back to the chihuahua vs doberman example, being the same species ≠ being the same. Additionally, synonyms in botany have a particular meaning. They can be homotypic or heterotypic. To my understanding, borsigiana is a heterotypic synonym of deliciosa.

From Wikipedia:

Quote
Heterotypic, or taxonomic, synonyms (sometimes indicated by =) have different types. Some botanists split the common dandelion into many, quite restricted species. The name of each such species has its own type. When the common dandelion is regarded as including all those small species, the names of all those species are heterotypic synonyms of Taraxacum officinale F.H.Wigg. Reducing a taxon to a heterotypic synonym is termed "to sink in synonymy" or "as synonym".

There *is* a distinct species that looks visually similar to 'borsigiana' called Monstera tacanaenis that was recently described. One of the identifying characteristics is that the seeds pop out of the fruit on their own.

Quote
The seeds of M. tacanaensis are extruded from the fruit at maturity, a phenomenon first reported here for the genus.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/344377658_A_comparison_of_Monstera_deliciosa_and_M_tacanaensis_with_comments_on_Monstera_section_Tornelia_Araceae

I don't know what 'taurii' is exactly (it seems to be of horticultural origin) but would assume it's also some form of deliciosa. I have it growing and so far it seems like it's almost an intermediate form between 'small form' and 'large form' so maybe whoever originally made the plant crossed them together.



12
I just picked my first fruit the other day because I saw what looked like sap on it. I hope it was the right time.





looks good to me

13
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cacao for sale at H-Mart
« on: February 03, 2025, 06:30:05 PM »
Question for you. I have never tasted a Cacao, what does it taste similar to, is it worth buying it to try it for the first time?

it's interesting, similar to mangosteen but not much pulp on the seeds. you can tell it's ripe because if you shake it gently you can feel and hear the inside of the pod rattling around. the seeds smell like chocolate, and taste somewhat like chocolate but extremely bitter. there is a special process to ferment them that lowers the bitterness at which point you can process it into cocoa powder and cocoa butter. to me the appeal of buying the cacao pod is to try the fruit, try one of the seeds raw (to notice the chocolate taste as well as the intense bitterness removed by processing), then try to grow one of the seeds into a houseplant.

14
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cacao for sale at H-Mart
« on: February 03, 2025, 06:28:03 PM »
Did you see any Honey Crisp kumquat there? Looks like Asian market Tokyo Central still has the $100 melon on their shelf, don't think anyone's going to buying that one.

did not see that sorry

15
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Cacao for sale at H-Mart
« on: February 01, 2025, 10:50:30 PM »
20137 Pioneer Blvd
Lakewood, CA 90715



16
I have talked to a guy who used to be active in the forum. He is from Mexico, and he goes back and forth to visit relatives. He swore to me that even in Mexico, not all Delores and Jalisco taste good. He tried many and only found one Jalisco that tasted good, and he brought some cuttings back to the US. This was 2 years ago, I should find his phone number and see if those cuttings grow.

For guavas it seems like a lot of people sell seed-grown with the same name as the seed parent. I wonder if that's the explanation.

17
I don’t like propagating guavas, but when I used to grow professionally for a couple large nurseries here in CFL, I had pretty good success at rooting cuttings. Just a ballpark but figuring I have rooted at least 50k guavas from cuttings. They aren’t easy, but I know the tricks for getting higher percentages.

I'm sure a lot of us would be really grateful if you could share what you know about this.

18
I'm curious what rootstock they use in Japan compared to here.

They use Trifoliate. They used to use Yuzu, but due to CTV they changed to the more resistant Trifoliate.

They still use yuzu but to inarch. Makes varieties traditionally grown on yuzu rootstock last longer on trifoliate

19
Tropical Fruit Discussion / ID Request: Annonaceae
« on: January 28, 2025, 06:52:09 PM »
Someone in my neighborhood has this growing in their yard. I know almost nothing about Annonaceae and am not sure what the tree is. Didn't want to bother them to ask (would've had to knock on their door etc)

It's a small tree maybe 6 feet tall. I think there's two of them right next to each other




20
Citrus General Discussion / What happened to "Sumo" (Dekopon) in the US?
« on: January 26, 2025, 12:38:34 AM »
I remember when these first hit the market they were enormous and always very high quality. Now they are the size of regular oranges (if not smaller) and very hit-or-miss in terms of sugar and acid balance.

Not asking to complain; rather, it seems like home growers could learn from this (i.e. mimic the growing practices that made the original fruit so good, and avoid whatever changes that have caused the quality to go down)




21
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Carmine Type Guava - Red Blush on Fruit
« on: January 19, 2025, 10:33:07 PM »
Encountered a strange problem from my China(carmine) guava since 2 years ago. It disturbing that the tree is no longer producing fruits with the pinkish skin, the skin is green, shape is round like typical varieties and no sweetness and bland. Seriously i dunno what happen.It was fine for the first 10 years and suddenly it's like the variety has just changed by itself. If anything is the culprit, it could well be the weather i think. i am in the ultra tropics. Weather pattern has change a bit though not much, dry spell are much hotter and rainy seasons are more intense. but how that would affect the varietyi am still puzzled.  Anyone has experience encounter similar thing?


Jet

If it's grafted maybe the rootstock has put out branches

22
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: "Special Avocados" In Laguna Beach
« on: January 18, 2025, 09:03:16 PM »
Quote
I think these are just small Hass. My neighbor (in mission Viejo) had a very large fruit set this year and a lot of the fruit is small.

Thanks! I agree, it was exactly like Hass just tiny

23
Tropical Fruit Discussion / "Special Avocados" In Laguna Beach
« on: January 18, 2025, 07:47:42 PM »
Found these for sale at a gas station in Laguna Beach (Village Mart & Gas). They're good, like a miniature version of a standard grocery store avocado. I think I would actually prefer it if avocados were sold at this size. It's the perfect size for a snack (I just finished eating one by scooping the fruit out with tortilla chips). With regular avocados I always feel like there's the task of figuring out how to use the whole thing once it's cut open.

Anyone know how to make an avocado tree produce small fruit like this? I know there are some varieties that make small fruit by default, but I looked it up and 'mini' versions of standard varieties (like Hass) are sometimes sold in grocery stores. My current guess is that they just don't thin the fruit after it sets?







24
Not 100% official but the small form is often called Monstera borsigiana or Monstera deliciosa var. borsigiana.

I've heard anecdotally that the 'large form' is hard to find in Europe

Not really. Monstera deliciosa, in its large form, has been a popular indoor plant in Europe for decades. In recent years, there’s a mix of big or small forms. There are lots of gardens in Southern Europe (Portugal, Spain, Italy, south of France, Greece,…) growing the huge Monstera deliciosa and the fruit can be sometimes found in markets.

Thai Constellation grows like the big form and many of the Albo versions are the small form. Commercially, there’s a third form between the large and the small, called Tauerii. And to end, there are all the other colour variations and sports: mint, yellow/aurea,…

Tempted to try the boiling and freeze approach after reading your comments!

Thank you, interesting. I found Tauerii at a garden center here in California last year. I have it planted in our garden and am interested to see how it grows

25
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Guava 'You Pick' Orchard in Oceanside
« on: January 18, 2025, 10:57:40 AM »
This is really cool. Looks like they grow mango and cherimoya as well. Did they offer those as you pick options too? Thanks for sharing!

Cherimoya yes, mango unsure

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