Author Topic: Satsuma on its own roots  (Read 5115 times)

sheaper

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Satsuma on its own roots
« on: December 14, 2023, 08:12:23 PM »
Has anyone had success growing satsuma to fruiting age from a seed?  I have a lot of seedlings going and was wondering if they are worth the effort?

Millet

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Re: Satsuma on its own roots
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2023, 09:31:37 PM »
The name Satsuma is credited to the wife of the U.S. minister to Japan, General Van Valkenburg who sent trees home in 1878 from Satsuma Japan where it was believed to have originated.  When grown properly, a satsuma grown from seed should bloom and fruit in 3 to 5 years.

SoCal2warm

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Re: Satsuma on its own roots
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2023, 12:21:46 AM »
If you are in the warmer part of zone 8, that is 8b, and you are in a good location and they are planted in a good spot, somewhere in your yard that doesn't get too cold and is protected from wind, I believe Satsuma can grow.

However, I have found that Satsuma seems unable to grow in the zone 8a PNW climate. (The PNW is different from the South, cooler temperatures throughout the year so a shorter growing season, but at the same time no cold snaps so no worries about coming out of dormancy too soon)
Even with a little bit of light protection, it is not enough. However, another member of this forum, Jim VH, who lives just 2 hours south of me, is growing two Satsuma trees, with a more heavy layer of insulation and wood frame that covers it during the winter. About 3 feet tall. He's in a very suburban location which probably also helps.

I would also strongly advise you to let the trees put on some growth and get at least a foot and a half, to two feet high before you try planting them outside unprotected. Perhaps use a light covering during the first two winters to help it along, with two large containers of water inside right up against the trunk to help protect it. (Water begins to give off heat as the temperature drops below the freezing point) It didn't work for me, but it may work for you, in a slightly warmer climate.

sheaper

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Re: Satsuma on its own roots
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2023, 07:20:51 AM »
Okay well that sounds like it may be worth trying then. I’ll do it

sc4001992

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Re: Satsuma on its own roots
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2023, 09:04:46 AM »
Unless you are doing it for fun, you can always just buy a tree and graft it with any variety that works so you can eat fruits in a few years. It would be a long time (4-5yrs) is you are wanting to eat fresh fruits from your only trees. I have lots of trees (over 10 in ground) with over 70 varieties grafted on the trees and so it didn't bother me to try and grow a few seedlings to see if I can get it to fruit. My only seedling that I waited long enough to fruit was my Chinese pomelo seedling. It did fruit after 7 yrs and it is one of my best tasting pomelos. I have several sumo/shiranui seedling growing now for about 4 years and no flowers on it yet. Good luck, hope our seedling fruits early.

sheaper

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Re: Satsuma on its own roots
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2023, 08:13:14 PM »
I have 6 satsumas, 3 Meyer lemon, Kishu, Bloomsweet, arctic frost, Harvey lemon, 3 shiranui all in the ground and about the same amount of different varieties as you have in pots and in and out of my greenhouses.

The satsuma seedlings are because we had a ton of seeds from kids and people trying the fruit in our yard so we started keeping them and sprouting in bags.

I have lots of left over Deepots Containers and Treepots for sizing up so I figured we might as well use them.  Hoping for a chance seedling of decent quality and another another side project 🤪

jim VH

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Re: Satsuma on its own roots
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2023, 12:56:20 PM »
Hi Sheaper,

  Growing your own Satsuma is definitely worth it, not only for the satisfaction of 'doing it yourself', but because tree ripened Satsumas fresh off the tree have far better quality than the ones you get in stores, which tend to be picked on the green side.
  I've never grown a Satsuma from seed, but have grown a Changsha mandarin. It took about twelve years to bear fruit, but in my location the growing season is quite short compared to the Southeast US, so I usually only get one complete growth flush in a year, with sometimes a second incomplete one, whereas, in your location, you should get two or three. So, Millet's estimate of 3-5 years is probably more accurate for your tree from seed.
  In my location, which is about 750 miles north of your latitude--depending on which part of South Carolina you are--winters are more brutal than yours. Freezes where the temperature stays below freezing for up to ten days, with low temperatures down to roughly 10F, occur once every five or six years on average. Satsumas will not survive this, so I use the shelters described above by SoCal for them, plus a string of the old incandescent Christmas tree lights on a thermostat, to keep their temperature above freezing. Usually, though, the temperatures are not that cold, so I leave the shelters open to prevent mold, and only close them and plug in the lights when the temperatures look to drop below 28F when fruit is on the tree, or down to the low 20's when the fruit is harvested. This occurs, on average, only about a dozen days a year--more often during the rare arctic blast.
  I have, however, tested unprotected Satsumas. When I first started my citruholic adventures twenty years ago, I found that only the earliest ripening Satsumas reach full size and maturity here, where our growing season starts in May and ends in late September. The Owari and Brown Select Satsumas never grew beyond golf ball sized, and did not winter over to resume growing the following spring. So, in 2014, I decided to sacrifice them to the frost gods. Sure enough, in November 2014, the Veterans day storm came, with strong east winds of 20 mph, gusting to 50 mph, and where the temperature dropped to 18F and stayed below freezing for 36 consecutive hours. This killed both three foot trees, although the Brown Select did push out a small shoot for about a month before giving up the ghost.
  Then, last year, I left a very large Okitsu with a 1.25 inch diameter trunk on a citrange rootstock, which was outgrowing its shelter, exposed to the elements, after replacing it with a dwarf Okitsu on Flying Dragon rootstock in a different location. Sure enough, last winter I had three short arctic events down to 18F, each accompanied by high east winds gusting to 35 mph. In the December event there was a 36 hour period where the temperature never rose above 22F. This killed the Okitsu. Interestingly enough, last winter also killed a small Keraji mandarin on FD rootstock, even though it was protected by a styrofoam box, although a larger Keraji on a Citrange rootstock survived with 70% damage. Kerajis are reputed to be hardier than Satsumas, but apparently not that much hardier.
  So, the conclusion of this bit of a ramble is that you should be prepared to protect you Satsuma if your temperatures drop much below 20F, if it looks like it will last more than a few hours, although in your location a tarp may be enough.
  Hope some of this helps.

Jim
 

sheaper

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Re: Satsuma on its own roots
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2023, 12:50:22 PM »
Jim,

Thank you very much for typing all of that.  Sometimes the long winded approach is necessary to bring home the overall point.  I think your answer is about the best one i have read regarding the topic.

I have lots of frost cloth on the ready for historical events but was very interested to read your experiences and plan my future cold protection strategies/reasonings.

drymifolia

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Re: Satsuma on its own roots
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2023, 08:15:50 AM »
I was able to successfully root the twig attached to a satsuma in the grocery store, and after a year in my greenhouse it was planted out as a sacrifice a few months ago. It's not a seedling, but it is "on its own roots" at least! I was expecting it to get killed back, but I was curious whether the roots at least would survive.

So far we've had a mild fall/winter, the lowest temperature has been 28°F, and it not only has no damage, it seems to be pushing a new flush!





I posted a thread on another forum about that rooting attempt, and it includes photos of the fruit that the twigs were attached to, the roots when I first potted up the cutting, and the roots when I planted it out 2.5 months ago.

Till

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Re: Satsuma on its own roots
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2023, 05:16:39 AM »
Very nice. 28°F is not very cold, though. But I could imagine that Satsuma on its own roots is hardier than on Poncirus. The question is if Satsuma on its own roots sproots earlier than Poncirus in spring. If its later than probably also hardier. How early is your Satsuma as compared to Poncirus?

sheaper

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Re: Satsuma on its own roots
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2023, 12:28:30 PM »
Project Satsuma has begun




sc4001992

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Re: Satsuma on its own roots
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2023, 02:51:20 PM »
Nice. What Satsuma variety do you grow? Most of my satsuma fruit are seedless and I only get a few seeds from about 100 fruits. But I will germinate the 5 seeds I got from the fruits.




« Last Edit: December 29, 2023, 06:14:10 PM by sc4001992 »

Millet

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Re: Satsuma on its own roots
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2023, 03:59:56 PM »
SC400  what do you do with so much fruit?

sc4001992

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Re: Satsuma on its own roots
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2023, 04:14:46 PM »
Need to pick the ripe fruits from the tree, don't like to let it hang and rot on it.

I gave most of them all away to neighbors, I only eat 2-3 fruits a day and my wife doesn't eat any of my citrus fruits. My neighbors are really happy for these fruits, they tell me it was really sweet. This tree still has about 500 fruits that needs to be picked this month, lots of work.

sc4001992

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Re: Satsuma on its own roots
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2023, 04:33:54 PM »
Millet, 

I guess I like to collect/hoard so I seem to have more than I need of everything. Did you see how many Carrizo fruits I collected from the tree on my bike path.





A lot of work to remove all those seeds to plant.

Millet

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Re: Satsuma on its own roots
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2023, 06:01:38 PM »
Were going to crown you the forum's Carrizo champion.

sc4001992

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Re: Satsuma on its own roots
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2023, 06:09:40 PM »
Yup, couldn't help myself when I saw all those nice fruits on the ground. I went back and picked up another 100 fruits, so more to squeeze and get seeds to plant.

My record fruit picked from a tree is the next door Meyer lemon tree that I cut down and dug up and put into a pot. The 45 year old tree had 1,290 fruits. That took a while to pick all the fruits. Kids had a good time selling it on the sidewalk (lemon stand) and made a few bucks.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2023, 06:12:46 PM by sc4001992 »