Swimming pool container for fruit trees

[Julie]

Hi All, I have a swimming pool at my house that I’m interested in converting to more planting area. There are three options for pool demolition:
(1) break up the bottom and fill with soil
(2) partial pool demolition-break up the bottom and sides 2 ft down and remove the surrounding patio
(3) full pool demolition-remove entire pool and all the concrete

I’m thinking of going with option (1) because I'm very concerned about the amount of concrete dust that will be generated and concerned about damage to my existing trees. I have multiple trees planted near the pool patio.

Here are my questions. For a swimming pool with bottom broken up and no other concrete removed (option 1):

Would trees grow OK inside the swimming pool? Would they get root bound? Would they thrive long term or only for a certain number of years? How many trees could i plant inside? Would the pool container be hot and dry inside like regular containers, or no problems like this because it’s in ground? Would only certain types of trees be ok inside the pool (ex: mango but not jackfruit, etc)? Will the concrete dust from the demolition (hopefully not that much if it’s only the bottom being broken up) affect the trees that I already have (getting on leaves, flowers, etc) and should i take steps to protect them?

If anyone has any experience with this or advice please let me know. I will attach a google image of my yard.  Unfortunately my yard is big but the prior owner filled it with concrete. You can also private message me if you have any advice.

[K-Rimes]

I don't think there is a significant amount of dust from cracking the concrete and using an excavator with a thumb to pull them out. At least not so much it will harm your fruit trees. If you get an experienced operator, they will not harm the trees with the machine either. They will compact and tear up your grass though.

If you fill it with soil, it will hold water differently than will the rest of the yard, and eventually, maybe decades in the future, your trees will hit the wall. If you plant smaller trees, like jabos, no big deal, but something that wants to be big like a mango? Don't think it's a good call.

My vote is to properly remove it, if funds allow. Make sure you get an experienced contractor who can properly break it up without compromising your home foundation.

[Julie]

Thank you so much for responding. I’m mainly concerned with the effects on my health from the concrete dust (i have respiratory problems from inhaling pool chemical fumes multiple times) but trying to keep this post focused on fruit trees since i know the moderators don't want us to get off topic too much. (I care about the trees too) I am willing to spend the money on any removal option because fruit trees are my passion but at this point where my health is, i don’t think it would be a good idea to risk a big demolition project with tons of concrete dust. Mangoes never last more than 10 years for me, they always thrive but end up languishing and slowly dying after about 10 years. So for me they haven’t been a forever tree.

[Coconut Cream]

If the priority is truly to maximize the plantable area, and not worry about the home equity value in the swimming pool, I would remove it completely. The deck and pool plumbing will take up a lot of real estate as well. Most pools leak to some extent so I would be prepared for some areas that may have concentrated salts or chemicals to struggle with tree growth for a little while at least.

The demolition shouldn't be too bad in terms of dust, but it is a big project. You are going to need a lot of fill dirt for that hole and be careful what you put in there. You don't want compacted limestone and shell rock dust. But yeah, rip out the entire thing.

[Julie]

Thank you so much Coconut Cream for your help. Home value from the swimming pool is not a concern at all, i care about the house but not the pool. Do you recommend using a concrete cutting company or a demolition company?  I feel like there would be tons of dust produced during the process, but it seems like you have experience with this. I am leaning towards just breaking up the bottom because of health concerns from the dust, and this would produce a lot less dust than the full demolition. It seems like i could plant 2 trees inside the pool, but could plant 3 if i removed the entire pool.

[Coconut Cream]

I would probably plant at least 8-10 trees in the space the deck takes up, but I'm a little more aggressive.

You can cut the deck with a concrete saw with a hose attached to keep the dust down. If you have a good contractor and explain to them you need to minimize the silica dust then it shouldn't be a problem during that phase at least. Step one is cutting the deck and defining what area you are going to remove with the heavy equipment. Ripping out the pool shell is going to be messy no matter how you do it.

I think it looks odd to have a filled in pool in the backyard, but it also costs real money to rip it out.

[Julie]

Are you saying only the deck could be removed with a saw or both the deck and the pool shell could be removed with a saw?  I don't know anything about this and the decision has been weighing on me for a long time. The silica/concrete dust is my major concern. If you know any reputable companies that do this sort of work please send me a private message. I don't care about the weird look of a filled in pool, but it’s hard to walk away from being able to plant 8-10 trees lol. At least i could plant 2-3 trees within the pool (maybe).

[Coconut Cream]

The concrete saw is just to mark the line on the deck between what you keep and what you tear out. I imagine that you will retain some of the deck to have a patio.

You are going to need a full demo crew to tear out the pool shell, it's made of reinforced concrete so it will take heavy equipment to cut through it and turn it into rubble before pulling it out and hauling it away. This video will give you one idea how to do it, but they leave a lot of the concrete chunks in the ground. If you are planting, you will want to remove them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW7NqcEKyq4

[EddieF]

Julie, this is all because your pool service puts in too much chlorine?  Are pipes broke?  Leaks?  Needs new skim of Diamondbrite?
No better exercise then swimming.  Takes all weight off spine, joints, gets blood flowing, burns crazy calories, not to mention best outdoor bath after yard work
I think you're nuts if nothing's wrong with it.  Try new pool service for a month or 2.

Saw dust will be almost none if wet saw used if you must go crazy route.  Like almost no dust at all.

Guy behind me had his filled.  They used heavy equipment to break it up & fold sides in.

[Julie]

Hey Eddie, I understand what you’re saying. I literally go back and forth about my options each day. Yes it needs to be resurfaced but thats the only problem that i know about and it’s been like that for years. I think the saw can only be used for the patio and the heavy equipment must be used for the pool shell, which is what creates a lot of dust.  When your neighbor did his pool demolition did it cause dust on your property?

[EddieF]

Julie, he's west of me.  Wind usually blows his way.
I'm sure smashing concrete with industrial jackhammer on wheels made dust.
Do not expect no dust no matter how it's done unless pouring rain.
What's with dust?  Do you have lung issue?
Pool bottom & sides can be made resurfaced brand new for under 3k i say.
Gonna cost to remove it, fill, plant trees, i'd rather swim or float around.

[Julie]

Yes unfortunately i do have lung issues now from inhaling the chlorine fumes from my pool when my pool guy was treating it.

Im glad you didn't get any dust on your property.

[Galatians522]

With the price of real estate down there, I would get rid of the whole thing. Get an air bnb for a week and have them rip it out. All the dust will be gone when you get back.

[Julie]

Hey galatians, thank you for your help, your replies are always so helpful. You're totally right, i could never afford more land to plant on, and my land is ideal for planting trees (no flood zone, former pine rockland). Sorry if this sounds like a paranoid/silly question, but what happens to all of the dust after the demolition? Would it stay on my property and be kicked up again every time my lawn guy uses the leaf blower, etc?

[MasOlas]

Your demo guy can spray water on the concete as he’s busting it up and viola, no dust.

[Galatians522]

Hey galatians, thank you for your help, your replies are always so helpful. You're totally right, i could never afford more land to plant on, and my land is ideal for planting trees (no flood zone, former pine rockland). Sorry if this sounds like a paranoid/silly question, but what happens to all of the dust after the demolition? Would it stay on my property and be kicked up again every time my lawn guy uses the leaf blower, etc?

It has to be dry to be dust. When it's wet, its just mud. If there's been a good rain or even irrigation you won't have much dust left a day or two later. Actually, even the native soil makes some dust when it is dry enough. Also, if you are having the hole filled with soil, 99% of the dust will be mixed into and covered by the soil you have hauled in. At that point it shouldn't be any more problematic than you typical soil. Leaf blowing will always kick up some dust. Change the air filter on your AC before you leave and again after you come back. You should be fine.

[Julie]

Thank you so much for your reply, it helps a lot.

[Coconut Cream]

While they are demolishing the pool, I would think about ripping out the side patio and half the driveway too. You could squeeze at least 20 - 30 more trees there 

[Daintree]

You don't even have to bust up the bottom to put some soil in it. Rock first, then soil. 
To control how much water goes in, build a polycarbonate roof over the top, and you have a tropical oasis!

I SO miss the Crystal Garden tropical greenhouse in Victoria BC.  It was my favorite place to visit when I lived in Canada, and it broke my heart when they ripped it out.  I always wanted to buy a house with an inground pool and do exactly what they did - make a multi-level tropical garden. Sigh.

[roblack]

I love the multilevel garden idea. Maybe you could just knock out the bottom of the pool, amend whatever dirt or limestone is there, and plant some tropical trees and other plants. You could create a microclimate for harder to grow stuff.

[Greater Good]

I love the multilevel garden idea. Maybe you could just knock out the bottom of the pool, amend whatever dirt or limestone is there, and plant some tropical trees and other plants. You could create a microclimate for harder to grow stuff.

She's located In Miami. 6 ft down is pure limestone in the rest of her garden. Hammer drill 50 ⅝" diameter holes in the bottom and your done.

[Julie]

Hey. Where did you get the 50 5/8 measurement from?

I don't think the below ground garden would work here because of the high water table (could be wrong of course).

Daintree please be glad you didn’t buy a house with a swimming pool. I was 26 years old when i bought my house and had no idea what i was getting into maintaining this artificial body of water. Its better to just have raw land without all these concrete “improvements”

[Julie]

While they are demolishing the pool, I would think about ripping out the side patio and half the driveway too. You could squeeze at least 20 - 30 more trees there 

100%. I hate all this concrete. Would never do this myself to this tropical soil.

[Julie]

Hello everyone, i was continuing to research and i came across Dexpan, which is something they inject into the concrete and it expands and breaks it up. They advertise no dust. Wondering if this is something i should look into?

The question is, would this be toxic to the soil?

The main ingredient is quicklime.

Composition:

Calcium oxide: 60–100%
Silica, amorphous: 5–10%
Iron (III) oxide: 1–5%
Aluminum oxide: 1–5%

https://www.dexpan.com/

[roblack]

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5508b770e4b0269e58353e95/t/5abc2f628a922dcb2e8b3fa1/1522282343566/Dexpan++-++MSDS.pdf

Looks like it is a respiratory irritant. Doesn't look to leave residual toxicity, but dust could still be an issue.