The Tropical Fruit Forum
Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: JF on September 07, 2021, 01:06:56 PM
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Yucatán saramuyos and sugar apples. In October I will have wood and seeds for sale. These are “ the most delicious fruits known to man” quoting mark Twain after he tasted a cherimoya, unfortunately he never tasted a saramoyo….
(https://i.postimg.cc/hJsf9Rdb/156-C2-D99-FD73-44-E9-8-E31-6-DA951976-D82.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hJsf9Rdb)
(https://i.postimg.cc/y3gx4Jrv/26-EB2-D9-F-16-CA-4-B7-D-A84-F-4-BC8-B35-A4-C3-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/y3gx4Jrv)
(https://i.postimg.cc/5YkyR5pX/542-E887-B-9-E96-42-D7-8344-63219-F8-C7526.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5YkyR5pX)
(https://i.postimg.cc/hzGbmrfv/6-CD497-C8-9-E5-A-4695-B713-D049-E05-F661-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hzGbmrfv)
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How about some fruit!?
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How about some fruit!?
In 2 years when they start producing in SoCal. I’m in Yucatán now.
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How about some fruit!?
In 2 years when they start producing in SoCal. I’m in Yucatán now.
=)
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Saramuyos are sugar apples, right?
These are varieties you brought from Yucatán?
According to a video I saw on youtube, famous annona expert Har explained that Sugar Apples are indeed originally from the East Coast of Mexico.
Regards!
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Saramuyos are sugar apples, right?
These are varieties you brought from Yucatán?
According to a video I saw on youtube, famous annona expert Har explained that Sugar Apples are indeed originally from the East Coast of Mexico.
Regards!
No, saramuyos are hybrids SA x CA and yes they are endemic to the Yucatán.
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Saramuyos are sugar apples, right?
These are varieties you brought from Yucatán?
According to a video I saw on youtube, famous annona expert Har explained that Sugar Apples are indeed originally from the East Coast of Mexico.
Regards!
Interesting! They are like sugarlatas!
Awesome!
No, saramuyos are hybrids SA x CA and yes they are endemic to the Yucatán.
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Saramuyos are sugar apples, right?
These are varieties you brought from Yucatán?
According to a video I saw on youtube, famous annona expert Har explained that Sugar Apples are indeed originally from the East Coast of Mexico.
Regards!
No, saramuyos are hybrids SA x CA and yes they are endemic to the Yucatán.
But Har also said this:
Saramuyos are the same as Anon, Sugar-apple, Sweetsop, and many other common names.
Central-Eastern Mexico and South-Eastern Mexico have a wide variability of Annona squamosa, and are thought to be the native area of origin of the species. Because the seeds stay viable for months, or even more than one year, this species was among the first few that the early European explorers succeeded in spreading far and wide -- including to Brazil and India, where many now contend that sugar-apple is native.
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Har has said a lot of things about Saramuyos but I happen to live in Yucatán and they are hybrids and 10x better than any sugar apple I’ve tasted.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jWGJrR1b/3612141-A-6446-453-E-9-E17-66-D2-B14382-DA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jWGJrR1b)
Here are 1.75lb beauties as good as any top top we cherimoyas
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Har has said a lot of things about Saramuyos but I happen to live in Yucatán and they are hybrids and 10x better than any sugar apple I’ve tasted.
(https://i.postimg.cc/jWGJrR1b/3612141-A-6446-453-E-9-E17-66-D2-B14382-DA.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/jWGJrR1b)
Here are 1.75lb beauties as good as any top top we cherimoyas
Can we tell they are hybrids by DNA, leaf shape, stability of form or precociousness of their seedlings?
I'd like to know more has anyone done systematic research to empirically/factually find out?
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JF
Do you have any experience growing the plants from seed?
Will they grow true from seed?
thanks
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I had this conversation in a thread with Har a few years ago and we believe they are not true to seed. Since, I’ve fruited grafted and seedling Giant Yucatán in La Habra CA and I couldn’t tell the differences. I have 6-7 varieties ,1.5 year old seedling saramuyos, growing right now in CA and they’ve bloom this year….trees are too small to hold, maybe next year. Another added bonus is they are as cold hardy as cherimoyas and atemoyas in La Habra where sugar apples struggle. Do a search in the forum on saramuyos and you’ll see the leaves totally different of any sugar apple. Saramuyos are supremely delicious as good as Aussies atemoyas and California cherimoyas. You can also see the leaves on my Instagram.
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Mark Twain also never went to SE Asia to try durian , cempedak, marang , mangosteen etc. his views on fruit were rather limited.
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I had this conversation in a thread with Har a few years ago and we believe they are not true to seed. Since, I’ve fruited grafted and seedling Giant Yucatán in La Habra CA and I couldn’t tell the differences. I have 6-7 varieties ,1.5 year old seedling saramuyos, growing right now in CA and they’ve bloom this year….trees are too small to hold, maybe next year. Another added bonus is they are as cold hardy as cherimoyas and atemoyas in La Habra where sugar apples struggle. Do a search in the forum on saramuyos and you’ll see the leaves totally different of any sugar apple. Saramuyos are supremely delicious as good as Aussies atemoyas and California cherimoyas. You can also see the leaves on my Instagram.
Do saramuyos need to be hand pollinated?
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I had this conversation in a thread with Har a few years ago and we believe they are not true to seed. Since, I’ve fruited grafted and seedling Giant Yucatán in La Habra CA and I couldn’t tell the differences. I have 6-7 varieties ,1.5 year old seedling saramuyos, growing right now in CA and they’ve bloom this year….trees are too small to hold, maybe next year. Another added bonus is they are as cold hardy as cherimoyas and atemoyas in La Habra where sugar apples struggle. Do a search in the forum on saramuyos and you’ll see the leaves totally different of any sugar apple. Saramuyos are supremely delicious as good as Aussies atemoyas and California cherimoyas. You can also see the leaves on my Instagram.
Do saramuyos need to be hand pollinated?
Saw this post, think it answers your question
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=25267.msg334947#msg334947 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=25267.msg334947#msg334947)
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What are these graft compatible with. I looked at previous posts and saw Cherimoya. Are they compatible with anything else? Perhaps Glabra? or Cherilata?
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I hand pollinate all my annonas, can they set fruits on their own? Yes but to increase yield you want to HP. Saramuyos are compatible to all those annonas you mention,
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I have a few seedlings that came from JF that were straight from Yucatan. One of them have a different set of leaves which is the photo below!
Thanks JF for your efforts on introducing these new varities that are limited here.
(https://i.postimg.cc/crNdZnrN/Screenshot-20210911-092143-Gallery.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/crNdZnrN)
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I have a few seedlings that came from JF that were straight from Yucatan. One of them have a different set of leaves which is the photo below!
Thanks JF for your efforts on introducing these new varities that are limited here.
(https://i.postimg.cc/crNdZnrN/Screenshot-20210911-092143-Gallery.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/crNdZnrN)
Thanks Gozp, how are yr other hybrids fruiting in PI? Any pix?
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Yucatán Titán Rojo….this make the big red that I grow look like a newborn in diapers
(https://i.postimg.cc/8JcBDpcL/5-D7-E2264-4991-4370-A1-B8-1-D354-A74-FB27.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8JcBDpcL)
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Rambutan season in Yucatán
(https://i.postimg.cc/JtrR2LLn/56609873-A817-46-F7-8475-66-BAFC949-E34.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JtrR2LLn)
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I hand pollinate all my annonas, can they set fruits on their own? Yes but to increase yield you want to HP. Saramuyos are compatible to all those annonas you mention,
Oh, this is cool, I'm going to search this forum for more info. Relatives of mine have a couple unknown cherimoya trees in their yard but fruit production is very low, they are very tall trees and we can't hand pollinate sadly. We're also in OC.
I have a couple 2 year old seedlings that I am growing from seeds of one of the trees, maybe I can try to graft a saramuyo onto one! The one actually has a small brank, maybe I can leave one branch as cherimoya, and other as saramuyo? Is this possible? I've seen that other fruit trees can do this, like citrus and loquats.
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Alright, I'm confused I thought Sugar Apple X Cherimoya was an Atemoya? Is this the same thing? But a different name?
Bill
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Hi Bill
You are correct SA x Cherimoya = atemoya
Saramuyo = SA x CA plus CA x SA it’s called anona in Yucatán both hybrids
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OK, so this is an Atemoya crossed with another Atemoya? Which makes is a Saramuyo?
Bill
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No. This is a sugar apple (annona squamosa) x custard apple ( annona reticulata) and custard apple( .reticulata) x sugar apple (a. squamosa)….. no annona cherimola
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Still an atemoya
No need for redundant names
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Saramuyo is basically what is known here as Sugarlata, a cross between Sugar Apple and Annona Reticulata aka Custard Apple.
Cherimoya has nothing to do here, so not Atemoya which is a cross between Sugar Apple (Annona Squamosa) and Cherimoya (Annona Cherimola).
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No it’s not an Atemoya you have no idea what yr talking about.
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Thanks for clearing that up. All these annona get scrambled up in my head.
Bill
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I believe this is a hybrid of SA & CA. The fruit skin looks much bolder than any sugar apples. Frank do you have some pics of its leaves?
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(https://i.postimg.cc/PP45SfkQ/392943-EF-19-B3-4615-B186-6-E2-B66-C95826.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/PP45SfkQ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/5HH99wQs/797-C9-CA2-999-D-4912-925-D-BBF41102-FD14.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5HH99wQs)
(https://i.postimg.cc/HrvsCSnJ/84-E6-BCA9-41-AA-489-E-8-C7-B-1-E524-D5-C9317.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HrvsCSnJ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/cKVxvrQ0/C3-E1508-C-5315-4-C0-D-8-A60-164-DA145-F838.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cKVxvrQ0)
(https://i.postimg.cc/bDkzkpTb/D96-D6-FE1-74-C3-4-DC8-967-B-ACC10516180-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bDkzkpTb)
This is in the rescue saramuyo station
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Thanks Frank, in the 2nd pic, leaves sure look like a hybrid of A. squamosa and A. reticulata but more of the A. reticulata while the fruit is almost of A. squamosa, very interesting!
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Those pictures are incredible. That tree is HUGE!
I know you have explained this before So there are sugar
apples, custard apples, and crosses growing in the same vicinity?
How big is the area? Is it private land and was this all someone's project
or all naturally occurring? How long have these trees been crossing?
This is a picture of the sugarlata fruit that Painter created. It is a seedling
from his fruit. The texture looks similar to your fruit in the first pictures?
(https://i.postimg.cc/sB4tgvPX/sugarlata-2021.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sB4tgvPX)
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Mayans have been selecting saramuyos for eons like the Inkas with cherimoyas. Unfortunately saramoyos ,like canistel and many other native fruits, has loss it’s status but they are trying to make a comeback with the government saramuyo rescue project.
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Is the Yucatán Titán Rojo, a sugar apple? Or is that also a Saramuyo?
Thanks,
Bill
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Is the Yucatán Titán Rojo, a sugar apple? Or is that also a Saramuyo?
Thanks,
Bill
Yucatán Titán Rojo Is a saramuyo but I have red and green sugar apple also
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No it’s not an Atemoya you have no idea what yr talking about.
Fine then sugarlata if genetics are half sugar apple half reticulata….prior poster said it was part cherimoya but apparently other saying it is not. For what it’s worth it does look like a sugarlata. Still no need to make duplicate names. There are already too many duplicate annoying names in annona world like “custard apple”. Soon the annona world might end up like the garcinia nomenclature
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When I visited Yucatan several times decades ago, small regular sugar-apples were called Saramuyo in Merida. Go a few towns down the road, and names will be used differently. It it has been popularized now to call just big-fruited varieties that there, or here in the USA, fine.
The big special fruits were then called "injerto." Though this word should mean "graft", the conversations seemed to be about hybrids.
These looked similar to what is being called Giant Yucatan, and similar names here on the forum. We used one that we called "M-1" in breeding trials.
We were always up front about not knowing its classification: strange sugar-apple, other species, hybrid, or ancestral form.
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When I visited Yucatan several times decades ago, small regular sugar-apples were called Saramuyo in Merida. Go a few towns down the road, and names will be used differently. It it has been popularized now to call just big-fruited varieties that there, or here in the USA, fine.
The big special fruits were then called "injerto." Though this word should mean "graft", the conversations seemed to be about hybrids.
These looked similar to what is being called Giant Yucatan, and similar names here on the forum. We used one that we called "M-1" in breeding trials.
We were always up front about not knowing its classification: strange sugar-apple, other species, hybrid, or ancestral form.
The hybrid here are called saramoyos and INIFAP has a large selection of top tier saramuyos in the rescue station which are commercially propagated all over the Yucatán peninsula. The smaller fruits which are easily recognize as sugar apples are called anonas or chirimoya. Here is a pix of a sugar apple tree and you can contrast the leaves with the pix above in the field station.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zH7VVkwY/627032-C2-780-F-4-B00-AB8-C-E2-F9-D8-E795-B0.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zH7VVkwY)
(https://i.postimg.cc/s1rmGDPT/E4067621-ED5-A-4-A83-BD96-FCFAE2339-A8-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/s1rmGDPT)
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Next month I am travelling to Mazatlan on the west coast of Mexico. Am I likely to find Sarumoyo or similar Annona available there?
Thanks
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You are not going to find many or any. Yucatán produce the most something like 500 tons that’s commercially. There few backyard trees over the city and the rural area in the Yucatan o
Península but nothing like nances, mangos, caimito, sapotes etc ..maybe Raul or someone else that lives in the west coast can chime in
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You are not going to find many or any. Yucatán produce the most something like 500 tons that’s commercially. There few backyard trees over the city and the rural area in the Yucatan o
Península but nothing like nances, mangos, caimito, sapotes etc ..maybe Raul or someone else that lives in the west coast can chime in
Ok Thanks
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Put me down for some saramoyo seeds please! That is if you are bringing them back to USA first, im still scarred from my ilama seeds getting confiscated a couple weeks ago. Mahalo
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does CA stand for custard apple?
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Yes, as in Annona reticulata (bullock's heart).
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Hey Frank,
Just wanted to update you on the progress of the saramuyo seeds from a while back:
Dorado Yellow
(https://i.postimg.cc/qNvVjG6G/12065-E0-C-4-CA6-48-AA-A01-F-B681-A2382752.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qNvVjG6G)
Piste Red
(https://i.postimg.cc/N91zgyrM/2-B683209-78-C6-43-A3-90-F8-B4-E5-CDE83-DE4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N91zgyrM)
Really looking forward to the fruit now as you rate them so high!
-Joe
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Hi Joe
Dorado and Piste are CA x SA hybrids
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Pictures below are seeds from JF, the foliage is that of a custard apple or biriba but the flowers are that of a sugar apple or Atemoya.
(https://i.postimg.cc/RJHr7Hyh/0-C966-BB5-A4-A6-4-DAF-A484-8-A80519-E4964.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/RJHr7Hyh)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mhzGfvk4/20560-B55-5-DF3-47-F6-98-E9-1-A5-C407-D6-FF7.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mhzGfvk4)
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Yes , Yucatán hybrids play tricks on yr mind. The leaves look like a smooth skin reticulata but the fruits are bumpy and large like an atemoya and vice versus.