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Messages - kumin

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1
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: February 25, 2023, 02:45:47 AM »
Considering only one selection has fruited at this point it's still very much in the evaluation process. Some selection goals would eventually be reduced seediness, larger fruit size and increased sugars.
Several of the survivors have been propagated and are currently being trailed. The cold hardiness appears to be adequate for zone 6b, but the fruit characteristics of the remaining selections need to be tested.
The 026 selection seedlings appear to be nucellar at this point, perhaps exclusively so.
There have been inquiries from 2 small nurseries to date, but little of the propagation material has been distributed to date.

2
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: February 24, 2023, 08:15:27 PM »




 Fahrenheit -11.8 and Celsius -24,5 photos. There were also -6F readings in the same week.
Poncirus did show a bit of injury on late season growth.

3
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: February 22, 2023, 11:56:36 PM »
Only one of the seedlings has fruited at this point, although 2 additional trees have begun to flower for the first time. This particular fruit has acid flavors in addition to hints of Grapefruit taste. There are no grapefruit genetics involved, the faint bitterness likely came from the Poncirus parentage. The fruits are rather seedy, very thin rinded, subsequently will not keep for long periods.
Ripening is early as Poncirus. The tree is completely deciduous and has been acceptably hardy here in zone 6b.

Fruit with seeds removed.


The juice has an orange color.


Diluted to 30% juice/70%  water and sweetened it makes a desirable beverage.

 

4
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: February 22, 2023, 06:00:53 PM »
The Conestoga River is a mile from my location. It's the name I chose for the group of survivors of a cold hardiness test undertaken in 2018/2019. The test involved 20,000 C-35 seedlings of which only 3,000 showed genetic diversity. A few dozen of these seedlings survived a low temperature of -12F. The survivors were further propagated and are presently undergoing additional trialing. One has fruited at this point and 2 additional plants have produced a few flowers.

5
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: February 22, 2023, 02:43:15 PM »
My immediate plans are to cross the Conestoga Segentranges with Citrandarins containing Changsha parentage. 852 and progeny such as Bishop.
Additionally, to cross 5 Star Citrumelo with all of the above. 5 Star has survived here, but suffers dieback each Winter.

6
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: February 20, 2023, 05:47:34 PM »


 Poncirus showing late season flush being damaged by Winter lows of +2F and strong winds.

Undamaged 026 Segentrange grafted on Poncirus.



Undamaged 006 Segentrange sibling to 026.

There are several Segentrange selections that approach the hardiness of Poncirus quite closely.

7
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: February 20, 2023, 05:35:52 PM »
Poncirus Plus Nucellar seedlings. During the process of repotting Poncirus Plus seedlings today I found at least 3 sets of multiple seedlings from a single seed. This should indicate that some of the seedlings are of Nucellar origin.


8
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Plants for unheated greenhouse
« on: February 18, 2023, 02:46:06 PM »
Unvented Cold frames with clear glazing can get very hot even in the Mid-Atlantic states by mid-February. Although the outside temperatures are cold, the sun angle at this latitude allows the interior temperatures to rise to dangerous levels. Proper venting, or shading with opaque materials can be a solution. Allowing temperatures to rise to a high level will leave plants very vulnerable to nighttime lows below freezing. As trainman suggests, having thermal storage can reduce the daily highs as well as the nighttime lows.

9
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: February 14, 2023, 04:09:49 PM »
There are several that might be. I found the low percentage of trifoliate plants interesting, considering #026 (the pollen donor) is morphologically nearly indistinguishable from straight Poncirus.

10
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: February 14, 2023, 10:59:26 AM »
Here are a few photos of seedlings of Meyer Lemon pollinated by Segentrange 026 pollen.








11
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Plants for unheated greenhouse
« on: February 10, 2023, 02:55:10 PM »
I have used a similar set up for the past few years. White overwintering plastic film reduces daytime solar gain. It's very important to prevent excessive heat buildup to prevent the formation of  tender, new growth. A small emergency heat source may save vulnerable trees on the few, out of ordinary cold nights. It's again important to not overdo this emergency heating.
Night time temperatures can be below freezing without harm if the plants are dormant. venting needs will largely be determined by the amount of sunshine. Trees planted directly in the ground will not be as vulnerable as potted trees. Slightly moist soil will retain more heat from day into night, especially during sunny days.
Further tweaks include insulating between the inside and outside soil at the perimeter, using water barrels as heat storage sinks(this can be a disaster if the water freezes).
There are also seasonal white shading sprays that can be applied to rigid plastic and glass surfaces to reduce solar gain.







12
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« on: February 10, 2023, 05:35:36 AM »
On occasion the zygotic seedling is more vigorous than the nucellar one(s). Many cultivars essentially produce no viable zygotic embryos. Others produce 100% zygotic embryos. The issue becomes apparent in populations of mixed types. Visual inspection will help find seedlings with identical appearances. These are likely to be nucellar in origin, except in cases where is little genetic variability in both the seed and the pollen parents. Monoembryony is  not always synonymous with zygotic embryony. Seeds may produce a single nucellar embryo.
If the pollen parent shows very distinct characteristics, such as Poncirus does, determining embryonic origin is greatly simplified.

13
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« on: January 25, 2023, 04:40:34 PM »
I would expect Flying Dragon flowers being pollinated by regular Poncirus to have a fewer Flying Dragon seedlings.

14
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« on: January 25, 2023, 10:06:16 AM »
Were regular Poncirus trees blooming nearby?

15
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Precocity and tree caliper
« on: January 23, 2023, 05:16:52 PM »
I've recently seen suggestions that cold temperatures that aren't lethal may contribute to initiation of phase change. Summer temperatures get rather high, as only the polyfilm ends are removed. As the interior has filled up with growth, ventilation has been reduced. I use cooling misters on the hottest days.
Possibly, both temperature extremes have an effect on maturation, but I don't have any data to support the idea.

16
Cold Hardy Citrus / Precocity and tree caliper
« on: January 21, 2023, 03:44:41 PM »
Genetics is an obvious factor involved in determining first flowering and fruiting of seedling trees. Another likely factor is the amount of resources the seedling has to utilize to establish trunk stiffening and thickening in order to brace against wind stresses. Trees secured against framework such as trellises and espaliers don't need to allocate as many resources towards trunk and limb framework. Seedlings within an enclosure with a poly or glass skin are also free to transition more quickly to a reproductive phase change. My trees grown outdoors are invariably shorter as well as stockier with thicker trunks. The trees within the high tunnel are lankier and taller. Almost all of my "precocious" trees were located within the cold frame structure .

17
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: January 21, 2023, 01:51:09 PM »
Poncirus Plus seedlings, which germinated rather well.

****************************
Kabosu seedlings on the far side. No Poncirus genetics.
Meyer Lemon pollinated by Segentrange 026 pollen seedlings on the near side. These seedlings are quite variable as Meyer Lemon is Zygotic.

Despite 026 appearing very similar to Poncirus, it's seedlings resulting from a Conestoga 026 x Meyer Lemon cross show monofoliate and bifoliate, as well as trifoliate seedlings.



18
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: January 21, 2023, 01:41:27 PM »
US 1282 Cold damage in high tunnel. Late season flushing appears to be a big contributor. Poncirus x Cleopatra mandarin hybrid.


US 1281 foliage is rather Poncirus like, but shows no deciduousness. No cold damage observed. Poncirus x Cleopatra mandarin hybrid.
.

US 1279, the most deciduous of the three, appears to be quite hardy in the high tunnel. May show less hardiness out of doors. Poncirus x Changsha mandarin hybrid.


19
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Viability of seeds from frozen fruit
« on: January 16, 2023, 02:04:45 PM »
There's not much to lose. I have planted immature Clementine seeds and got good germination. The biggest danger I foresee is susceptibility to decay, especially with the adhering flesh.

20
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Viability of seeds from frozen fruit
« on: January 15, 2023, 08:30:21 PM »
A 2-3week seed test at 86F should provide some answers. If the seeds have a hard seedcoat chances should be better.

21
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: looking for most cold hardy poncirus trifoliata
« on: January 14, 2023, 11:11:36 PM »
A trial could be attempted be sowing a large population of the highest percentage of zygotic Poncirus seed available. Provided the seedling population shows variation in hardiness, the hardiest specimens might attain your goal. If your goal is beyond the genetic capability of the seedlings you plant, success would be unlikely.

22
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrumelo
« on: January 14, 2023, 11:01:57 PM »
In that case trifoliate should no longer have any influence on the hardiness of the cutting. The resultant cutting's hardiness would be determined by the genetics of the original Citrumelo seedling.

23
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citrumelo
« on: January 14, 2023, 06:35:22 PM »
There should be a few degrees of additional cold resistance, in part due to deeper dormancy. By increasing the height of graft, the trifoliate understock should have additional influence on cold hardiness of the scion.

24
kumin, what does it mean to say the seeds of pomelo will be zygotic?

I grew the seeds from my pomelo fruit and they have a few leaves now, can you tell by looking for the largest seedlings to identify the nuclear/clones ?



The most certain test would be to exclude all pollen from the stigma except for pollen from a distinctive foliage type like Poncirus. 100% trifoliate progeny would indicate 100% zygotic seedlings. Alternatively, if the plants are grown to a larger size, there should begin to be a distinction in the growth habits as well as leaf characteristics.
Leaf petiole differences, leaf shapes will vary among zygotic seedlings.

25
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: January 12, 2023, 12:24:02 PM »
Poncirus Plus seeds germinating


Kabosu seeds germinating. They're quite small at this point.



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