26
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: WTB Turpentine Mango Seeds
« on: November 27, 2023, 11:59:43 AM »
yes, please message me.
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27
Tropical Vegetables and Other Edibles / Re: Potatoes, yacon, oca, and other root crops
« on: November 19, 2023, 05:46:59 PM »Looks like you can't be added to waitlist for some items. I would check his site in March or Sept when he posts inventory for sale.
Janet
thank you Janet! I added many things to waitlist, hope they become available this season. Your work on the farm is impressive, we are about to start the similar volume of work, grading slopes with lots of berm type spaces, but small excavators are unavailable here so looking for alternatives - anything other than elbow grease
28
Tropical Vegetables and Other Edibles / Re: Potatoes, yacon, oca, and other root crops
« on: November 16, 2023, 01:47:59 PM »Hi everyone,
Just wanted to share my favorite source for root crops from a breeder in Washington. He just made items available for pre-order for next season.
Cultivariable.com
He specializes in Andean potatoes, yacon, oca, mashua, and ulluco.
I’ve also ordered perennial sea kale and dwarf Jerusalem artichokes.
I love his potatoes.
Janet
Hi Janet, do you know what happened to Cultivaribles? Nothing is available, seems that he isn't taking preorders either. In his personal posts he's saying he's very disorganized. I am finally ready to plant roots but the web site is dormant.
Also, I'm looking for mashua negra, the only place I saw it was Indonesia... have you heard of anyone selling it?
29
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Florida Natural Farming?
« on: November 03, 2023, 10:24:09 PM »Satya,
I hope you will reconsider and start posting in the discussion forum again. I would really be interested in hearing about how you are developing your new property in Costa Rica. Your experience, insights, and results contribute to inspiring others to grow food and cultivate beauty.
I'm working on organizing my photos and thoughts for a post on my farm. This thread is making me question how it will be received, but I guess I'll just have to write it and see. In the end, I don't really need anyone's approval or validation, but I am open to learning from the experience of other growers.
Janet
Janet, thank you again for your kind words. I really don’t want to rub it in but our experience in Costa Rica would probably not be helpful as we have an unlimited supply of water both from springs (water association keeps its tank on our land and gives us unlimited unmetered access for a small yearly maintenance fee) and a water concession from the river on our property. Rainfall was very nice this rainy season which is coming to an end now, but summers are usually dry here, so we will probably need to irrigate veggie gardens and newly planted trees.
Soil is very fertile acidic and full of worms, and we haven’t even done any applications. The biggest problem is cow grass, as the area has been deforested and turned into pasture about 50 years ago. It's very aggressive and needs lots of elbow grease to remove.
Luckily, cow herders didn’t spend money on fertilizers or weed killers so we are chemical-free, and because it’s steep hilly, there are no DelMonte or Chiquita plantations around that our farmer friends in the valley are facing, with all their poisons. The biggest problem here seems to be high winds (we are at 1000m elevation), so the challenge for us in comparison with lowlands is to plant seeds directly into soil - that doesn’t work and we have to keep trees in pots until they’re strong enough to withstand winds, which is about 5ft tall/5g pot.
Shadehouse plants are very happy so far, without any fertilizers or irrigation, just on rainwater and lots of worms that were thrown into pots so worm castings for fertilizer basically, and even rare and finicky plants don’t show any deficiencies. Jaboticabas flush non-stop here!
As soon as we protected trees with shadecloth from the wind and burning sun, they perked up and greened up (after being in the open in our previous rental). Interesting thing a local farmer shared with us, native South and Central American trees do well without shade protection, but Asian fruit trees need shade for the first year of life, even the ones that are considered full sun trees and fruit only in full sun.
We also noticed that air layers take much faster here than in FL.
We are very lucky to have both wet and dry areas (up and down the hills), so we can plant both California-climate and Florida-climate plants, so we are super excited about annonas, white sapotes and mangoes and all the tropicals like monsteras, philodendrons and anthuriums, orchids and other pretty ornamentals, but also many cacti, yuccas and agaves. Local mangoes here on the farm are very sweet and abundant, so hopefully new varieties also perform at their best and not get the usual Florida problems, since they will have so much wind and aeration.
Another problem that we inherited from cow herders is landslides, but we’re working on the eroded slopes using vetiver grass (it has massive root system but is non-invasive clumping and doesn't bloom so no seeds), here in CR it’s very popular and widely used for erosion control.
As for insects, there is a new pest that we never had in FL - leaf cutter ants that can defoliate a mature tree in a day, and that has to be controlled somehow because we have seen lots of them on the farm. They “trimmed” an old mango tree fully, leaving no leaves at all… Yet to discover a natural control for them, many people recommend different anecdotal controls but others say they don’t work...
All in all, much fewer challenges here for growing anything, from potatoes & tomatoes to durians & mangosteens, so we are very hopeful and looking forward to our new fruit adventures.
30
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Florida Natural Farming?
« on: October 31, 2023, 04:52:41 PM »
I have met Eric @ Florida natural farming personally and my youtube video on his farm has over 9K views now with frequent comments of interested growers in the video. That was 2 years ago, from my recollection, he was doing something different from the mainstream style of farming and something that resonated with what i/we wanted to do in our North Miami Beach garden. We were impressed with the new ideas that he had to share and implemented some of the techniques of the biodynamic farming in our garden. It was not that he was chased away from here, but rather an atmosphere was created in the forum in those days that made posting anything undesirable, much like when someone fills a room with black fumes and dust, and one would just escape the room to breathe fresh air. I have felt the same way many times and don't post in discussion forum these days. I have a long list of those who have behaved rudely with me and a longer list of people who have been kind, sharing and joy to talk to. Like with everything else: food, clothes, people - we choose based on our understanding and experience, and some are open to evolve and some get comfortable with their known ways of eating, behaving, growing, and anything that is out of their norm becomes uncomfortable, anything alien, be it culture or growing habits, makes them feel uncomfortable and want to defend by being aggressive against such change or such person.
I agree that forum is a great resource, and the fact that so many growers can post their growing experiences and taste reviews is invaluable. I respect their opinion on their choices but i will do my own way. I have thrashed people's growing ways in my channel and will continue to do so. But i am not going to say that this is the only way.
I agree that forum is a great resource, and the fact that so many growers can post their growing experiences and taste reviews is invaluable. I respect their opinion on their choices but i will do my own way. I have thrashed people's growing ways in my channel and will continue to do so. But i am not going to say that this is the only way.
31
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: WTB turpentine seeds
« on: August 29, 2023, 06:54:02 PM »
I have about 25 seedlings in 1g. May be able to bare-root and wrap in sphagnum and send if you are interested. I will take $10 per plant. If you don’t find seeds please let me know.
32
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Cone-tainers question
« on: August 27, 2023, 06:19:53 PM »I hate conerainers…never will I use them again.I had the same problem with root pruning pots, was cursing while trying to scrape them out with a table fork. then one day by accident they got flooded and i was repotting the next day, and when the soil was completely soaked and soft, they came out nicely en bloc without any damage to the roots. From now on, I always soak them the night before transplanting, and I don't have to use the fork any longer))
It’s way too hard to repot trees. They would just not come out …I got really angry 😤
Get a slightly wider pit so it’s easier to repot.
The main problem with cone-tainers for me was the giant tap root and not many side roots, so if I were to plant in them again, I would drill tiny holes all along the cone. Considering they are on daily irrigation, because they will dry up very fast with this kind of aeration.
They did save a lot of space for me with the Brazil seed order - had great survival rate in them, and plants looked healthy for a long time without fertilizer. But make sure you only plant slow growing trees into them, for fast growing plants they are pretty useless.
33
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: ISO Goldfinger Banana Pup
« on: August 26, 2023, 10:00:20 PM »John, Gold Finger is not one of the ones that I have grown yet. Mysore, Rajapuri, Manzano, Ice Cream, Orinocco, Dwarf Cavendish, and Gran Nain.
Satya, are you still looking for SK Carambola?
Yes, i am still looking for scions. I have 2 seedlings that i want to graft to. I had a tree and tasted Sri K before and really liked it. The tree stayed dwarf and compact. But it died, could not figure out why, probably nutritional deficiency and/or planted in the bad spot and got weakened.
34
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: ISO Goldfinger Banana Pup
« on: August 26, 2023, 02:56:56 PM »
I am sure many are growing here in South FL. Same as when i asked for a cutting of Sri K carambola nobody raised their hands. And i never asked the cutting to be shipped, would gladly drive there to meet or share something for trade or buy. Things like these put me off when i feel like selling grafted mango trees for $25 when people are lined up to buy for $60 from popularized farms. I always felt the forum to be a place to trade, to sell, to make rare plants available for better prices.
John, i also was looking for this variety and i bought a tissue culture online from Florida hill nursery. I was looking for Jamaican red/dwarf but they don't have in stock now.
John, i also was looking for this variety and i bought a tissue culture online from Florida hill nursery. I was looking for Jamaican red/dwarf but they don't have in stock now.
35
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: C. tetrameria #6 and #7 scions - CLOSED
« on: August 23, 2023, 06:57:02 PM »
Hi Kaz, this is very interesting. Hopefully there will be more interest in the forum for the yellow sapotes now. When i was offering scions for free nobody was interested, and probably it could have been because it was free 
. My grafts have grown slowly, one or two flushes since that time i grafted. Since i am in the process of moving out of the country, i will be selling the whole tree, 15g with 5-6 different branches grafted with #6 and #7 and one have a branch with suebelle. The rootstock is the seedling tree that you sent me. My best FL cultivar in terms of taste is also Younghan's Gold.
. My grafts have grown slowly, one or two flushes since that time i grafted. Since i am in the process of moving out of the country, i will be selling the whole tree, 15g with 5-6 different branches grafted with #6 and #7 and one have a branch with suebelle. The rootstock is the seedling tree that you sent me. My best FL cultivar in terms of taste is also Younghan's Gold.
36
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: ID odd fruit
« on: August 12, 2023, 01:15:50 PM »Yes mamoncillo or guinepas/guineps. Where were you at in Palm Beach? I'd like to go by there and buy someThey sell them on many big intersections in South Florida, mostly the ones that have long constant traffic jams
- exits from 95.... Hermacito means little brother, so probably the lady had a close relationship with the tree that produced the fruit.
37
Tropical Vegetables and Other Edibles / Re: Australian Boab seedlings as a root vegetable.
« on: August 12, 2023, 01:01:12 PM »
Aren't the seeds very hard/long to sprout? If it takes for ever to sprout, might not be the easiest veg to start. In our climate, seedlings of surinam(e) spinach produce a similar fleshy tap root. Interesting to find out about oak seedlings, we have to weed lots of them out due to squirrel games.
38
Tropical Vegetables and Other Edibles / Re: Biter Melon Aril Tastes like Cherry Candy?
« on: August 12, 2023, 11:57:35 AM »Good morning, like everyone else I'm looking at the white okinawan bitter melon variety from Baker Creek. I've never tasted bitter melon before. Is it worth growing as a FL summer crop? In these inflationary times, I want to try and grow some of my own veggies during the summer, but only things that are of decent eating quality. I'm not interested in the arils that much, more the vegetable itself. Is bitter melon decent tasting and will grow well in south FL summer?Absolutely! The flesh to seed ratio in that variety is good, fruit is not very bitter like its cousins (Chinese or Indian bitter melons that are really bitter) and the vine is very productive. I have one plant and it produces 2-3 fruits every day. Just needs full sun and adequate watering if a dry spell comes.
Here is my vine:
https://youtu.be/g0KuhoBa4f8
39
Tropical Vegetables and Other Edibles / Re: Biter Melon Aril Tastes like Cherry Candy?
« on: August 12, 2023, 11:51:59 AM »
interesting! I just shot a jyunpaku Okinawan bitter melon short, forgot all about the ripe fruit, otherwise would have included the aril info 
https://youtu.be/g0KuhoBa4f8
To be honest, I don't care about the arils that much because I love the unripe fruit cooked as a vegetable or juiced for a shot of healthy - I harvest them all before they're ripe [size=78%] [/size]
All varieties of bitter melons' arils (red) of a ripe fruit (orange) taste very sweet, even the mini weedy ones.
Even the arils of an unripe fruit have a very different taste than the bitter melon itself. I wouldn't say it's candy sweet but has a very (very!) mild sweet flavor, I wouldn't even call it a flavor, it's probably a hint of sweetness followed by a very light aftertaste of bitter that doesn't last long. An interesting super subtle flavor if you ask me, but I really like the bitter melons of all kinds, and this one is very pretty, with mild bitterness, the taste blends very well with other vegetables when you cook it, so all in all this vegetable has lots to offer and is worth growing, in my opinion, for many reasons. I would grow them for health benefits anyway, cherry or not
https://youtu.be/g0KuhoBa4f8
To be honest, I don't care about the arils that much because I love the unripe fruit cooked as a vegetable or juiced for a shot of healthy - I harvest them all before they're ripe
[size=78%] [/size] All varieties of bitter melons' arils (red) of a ripe fruit (orange) taste very sweet, even the mini weedy ones.
Even the arils of an unripe fruit have a very different taste than the bitter melon itself. I wouldn't say it's candy sweet but has a very (very!) mild sweet flavor, I wouldn't even call it a flavor, it's probably a hint of sweetness followed by a very light aftertaste of bitter that doesn't last long. An interesting super subtle flavor if you ask me, but I really like the bitter melons of all kinds, and this one is very pretty, with mild bitterness, the taste blends very well with other vegetables when you cook it, so all in all this vegetable has lots to offer and is worth growing, in my opinion, for many reasons. I would grow them for health benefits anyway, cherry or not
40
Tropical Vegetables and Other Edibles / Re: Best fake spinach for FL summer
« on: August 12, 2023, 11:35:38 AM »as long as you have taro (colocasia esculenta) they all can be cooked, it just varies by cook time. the bun-long Chinese taro is known here in hawaii as one of the most favorable with the shortest cook times. can be fully edible in 20 minutes of boiling. about two months ago i was desiring leaves. i went out to some of my plants and harvested a large pot full of leaves. we cooked them for 4 hours and it still had some slight itch. we cooked it another two hours the second day and still had some light itch. nothing horrible, but enough to notice. ive decided not to eat that one anymore. most of the small sized taro corms sold in stores/farmers markets here is the bun-long variety.I also haven't had luck with cooking colocasia leaves - oxalates never broke down, however long I cooked it. When I was in India, I was taught a very cool recipe with chickpea dough wrapped in colocasia leaves and refried. They didn't have the slightest oxalic tingle. Maybe different species of colocasia? Unfortunately I have no way to check now, but the dish was delicious. Wanted to replicate here but no luck.
if youre up on your botany you can figure out what variety you have. but being on the mainland im not sure what other cultivars you have. we can narrow things down pretty quickly here in hawaii by assuming most are local varieties plus only a few commercial non-hawaiian cultivars. heres the best site ive found for information.
http://bentut.github.io/kupunakalo/index.php/kalo_varieties/detail/bun-long/index.html
id prefer to collect a specimen from a known cultivator and be sure about variety rather than messing around with unknown varieties. but ive yet to come across for sure known edible leaf varieties. ive found other taro relatives for short cook times, but for some reason taro is a hard one for me to find. even here in the apex of ancient taro cultivation
41
Tropical Vegetables and Other Edibles / Re: Perennial fruits eaten as vegetables
« on: August 12, 2023, 11:31:18 AM »
winged bean is perennial here, they die out for the winter but resprout once the rains begin. I heard that tubers are also edible but I don't kill the vines. They produce pretty well for me in FL, lots of flowers and pods.
42
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Mango varieties that are less objectionable when little overripe
« on: August 03, 2023, 07:18:56 AM »
Didn't get to try out many varieties this year due to my travels. But the ones from home garden that were very good even when skin was wrinkled outside was Valcarrie, and Neelam. Neelam also gets almost black skin with lots of spots and skin starts to wrinkle a bit but inside is good, sometimes a bit soft close to the seed. In my experience, these didn’t get bad keeping longer after picking, but sweeter and complex.
43
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dwarfing a vigorous tree
« on: July 30, 2023, 05:01:15 PM »"following this logic, all grafted trees should be susceptible and die." = FALSEfollowing this logic, all grafted trees should be susceptible and die. What makes a tree grafted to itself more disease susceptible? it won't be a runt, it'll just be a leaderless grafted tree. If anything, trimming will give more chances for parasites to attack the tree than one graft, especially in wet climates. Plus, takes so much time when you have many trees. Grove maintenance takes lots of time if you do it without chemicals, and to add trimming to that would mean more days working haha.Some of my mango trees are over 30 years old. I have never pruned more than once a year and I often skip a year. I do not see the big deal in just taking off 1/3 to 1/2 of the canopy after harvest. IMO makes no sense to prune 6-8 times a year unless you are sculpturing the tree like at disney making it look like perhaps micky mouse.I'm planting 1000 trees in my new farm, and won't have time to excessively prune anything. a solution to managing both small backyard trees and large farms. you won't need to prune 6-8 times,
Summer pruning does dwarf a tree, some. I summer prune my trees about 6-8 times.
IMO a big tree cut low should produce as much fruit as a runt dwarf tree that is probably more susceptible to not surviving those 30 years as a producing tree anyways.
I guess I just never understood this topic or the need for producing a slow growing runt tree that might die with disease before it ever produces fruit.
But then again, I have no problem handling a chainsaw...
Maybe in Florida and especially your property soil doesn't make them grow super tall and wide because of the special pH, sandy nature, whatever; my FL property is entirely coral and trees also don't grow as tall, and in my Costa Rica property mango trees are super compact probably because of high winds, but that's not always the case, especially in the real tropics with ultra fertile soils, as Nef described above.
Thanks for sharing your experience though.
Satya, You have just failed your Reading Comprehension Test......
All = 100 percent = Total amount
This statement "that is probably more susceptible" implies lack of 100 percent probability.... It was illogical by you to say otherwise....
Thank you everyone who participated. I would never be interested in growing if things, norms, rules were fixed. I will continue to experiment, continue to grow even if i fail, even when i feel the process might be faulty, there is always something to learn even from failures. Thank you.
44
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dwarfing a vigorous tree
« on: July 30, 2023, 12:56:03 PM »Inverted graft !That will do itthat's a cool technique, thanks! does it work on all trees? Why is it not used more?
45
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dwarfing a vigorous tree
« on: July 30, 2023, 11:19:24 AM »
Low nitrogen fertilizing along with letting a precocious tree hold fruit early can have a stunting effect. While it doesn't always work, and can also kill a tree, sometime it does have a stunting effect. One of my oldest trees was a Hatcher planted in the ground as a 3 gal. Here is a photo of it 10 years later.
After holding lots of fruit it would only have a few growth spurts before flowering again. It has since been top worked to a Orange Sherbet which, so far, is growing more than fruiting.
Thanks Frank!
46
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dwarfing a vigorous tree
« on: July 30, 2023, 11:12:38 AM »following this logic, all grafted trees should be susceptible and die. What makes a tree grafted to itself more disease susceptible? it won't be a runt, it'll just be a leaderless grafted tree. If anything, trimming will give more chances for parasites to attack the tree than one graft, especially in wet climates. Plus, takes so much time when you have many trees. Grove maintenance takes lots of time if you do it without chemicals, and to add trimming to that would mean more days working haha.Some of my mango trees are over 30 years old. I have never pruned more than once a year and I often skip a year. I do not see the big deal in just taking off 1/3 to 1/2 of the canopy after harvest. IMO makes no sense to prune 6-8 times a year unless you are sculpturing the tree like at disney making it look like perhaps micky mouse.I'm planting 1000 trees in my new farm, and won't have time to excessively prune anything. a solution to managing both small backyard trees and large farms. you won't need to prune 6-8 times,
Summer pruning does dwarf a tree, some. I summer prune my trees about 6-8 times.
IMO a big tree cut low should produce as much fruit as a runt dwarf tree that is probably more susceptible to not surviving those 30 years as a producing tree anyways.
I guess I just never understood this topic or the need for producing a slow growing runt tree that might die with disease before it ever produces fruit.
But then again, I have no problem handling a chainsaw...
Maybe in Florida and especially your property soil doesn't make them grow super tall and wide because of the special pH, sandy nature, whatever; my FL property is entirely coral and trees also don't grow as tall, and in my Costa Rica property mango trees are super compact probably because of high winds, but that's not always the case, especially in the real tropics with ultra fertile soils, as Nef described above.
Thanks for sharing your experience though.
47
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dwarfing a vigorous tree
« on: July 30, 2023, 12:06:32 AM »
Hi Ryan, thanks for the info.
yes looking for a specific good variety and on top of that on a dwarf rootstock is mission impossible, it's like looking for a unicorn - unless you graft yourself, it would be crazy luck to come across. Alex is probably starting to graft on it? Would be great to have that option.
For tropicals, there are not many trees that are naturally small, so if this technique works that might be a great solution to harvesting and especially bagging fruit - here in Costa Rica fruit flies are ruthless, they don't leave any soft fruit untouched, how to bag if a tree is 30 meters tall...
yes looking for a specific good variety and on top of that on a dwarf rootstock is mission impossible, it's like looking for a unicorn - unless you graft yourself, it would be crazy luck to come across. Alex is probably starting to graft on it? Would be great to have that option.
For tropicals, there are not many trees that are naturally small, so if this technique works that might be a great solution to harvesting and especially bagging fruit - here in Costa Rica fruit flies are ruthless, they don't leave any soft fruit untouched, how to bag if a tree is 30 meters tall...
48
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dwarfing a vigorous tree
« on: July 29, 2023, 10:43:32 PM »I'm asking you again, did you try doing that or is it just your conjecture? I'm not trying to be abrasive, just really interested whether your words are based on personal experience.
Summer pruning does dwarf a tree, some. I summer prune my trees about 6-8 times.
Grafting a tree to itself isn't going to dwarf a vigorous tree either. It will just push up elsewhere.
I'm planting 1000 trees in my new farm, and won't have time to excessively prune anything. If this technique works, might be a solution to managing both small backyard trees and large farms. Just think about it, if it works, you won't need to prune 6-8 times, how much time you will save with just one simple experiment...
In my opinion, surely worth trying. If it doesn't work, oh well, didn't lose anything, and learned something new. By dismissing new ideas one will never learn anything new.
49
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dwarfing a vigorous tree
« on: July 29, 2023, 10:30:51 PM »
Hi Tim! Great to experiment, you could also do this technique and see if it grows an extra leader once the main leader is cut off, and whether there is a difference in the production of the approach grafted side branch in comparison with other branches on the same tree. My hypothesis is that the tree will think it still has the leader and transfer all the vigor to the grafted side branch, and make it much more productive. I was really impressed to see in person how durians fruit when given adequate space (they require 10 meters all around!) and Jesse mentioned that he's going to try this technique on his durians to make them more compact but as productive (see photo:). I will also do this to several vigorous trees and watch them closely, will share results later on, whatever the results are
50
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Dwarfing a vigorous tree
« on: July 29, 2023, 08:02:55 PM »In my IMHO letting them fruit young also is another way of naturally dwarfing trees.
thank you Frank, at about what age? I let a couple of my mango trees fruit out of a 15g pot, they had a very nice crop but didn't produce next 2 years, got bad mbbs and I had to hard prune them. But they were nursery plants, probably root bound. Let's see if they will get dwarfed, one of them is Super Julie - a very vigorous tree
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