Adding Chelated Nutritional Spray if Trees look Healthy?`

[John B]

My fruit trees look healthy for the most part. Growing fine and no major deficiencies showing right now. I use organic mulch/compost fertilizers and top dressing as well as complete fruit tree slow release chemical fertilizers. I've never added a strict micronutrient regiment. Should I include these even if trees look fairly healthy? I don't want to overdo it and cause other issues (lockout or burns), but if it could give an extra boost, I would consider it. Thoughts?

[K-Rimes]

I find minimal difference with foliar feeding on the majority of plants I have, but it can be appropriate for certain trees that are kinda "pushing it" in your zone or are disease prone like mangoes. Mangoes are one of the few plants that I think it's probably worth doing it on.

It does green them up and makes them look all nice n' shiny... But it's a lot of work if you don't have a proper fogger and have a lot of plants or they're very large.

For temperate fruit like apple, plum, and so on, definitely not worth it. For citrus, avos, mangoes, jabos, and eugenias and stuff it can be worth it depending on how much time you have.

[Grow Tropicals]

If I understand the question correctly, it's not about foliar feeding, per se.  It's about adding a micro-nutrient regiment.  This is something I definitely recommend for edibles.  You can grow a pretty healthy plant with just N-P-K, but for the healthiest, most nutritious, with good pest and disease resistance, and highest brix levels, I do recommend (and personally add) micronutrients.  This can be done via foliar and/or by adding soil amendments like Azomite.

For foliar feeing, I don't think the chelation helps, but I don't think it will hurt, either.  I know chelation allows roots to absorb nutrients at a wider PH range but I don't think PH is an issue with foliar feeding.  I COULD be wrong on that, though!

[John B]

Thank you both for your insights. Yes, this is about adding a dedicated micronutrient regiment. I thought that chelated micronutrients were superior to regular micros due to the added protection in the soil. Of course, I could be completely wrong as well!

[socalbalcony]

If I understand the question correctly, it's not about foliar feeding, per se.  It's about adding a micro-nutrient regiment.  This is something I definitely recommend for edibles.  You can grow a pretty healthy plant with just N-P-K, but for the healthiest, most nutritious, with good pest and disease resistance, and highest brix levels, I do recommend (and personally add) micronutrients.  This can be done via foliar and/or by adding soil amendments like Azomite.

For foliar feeing, I don't think the chelation helps, but I don't think it will hurt, either.  I know chelation allows roots to absorb nutrients at a wider PH range but I don't think PH is an issue with foliar feeding.  I COULD be wrong on that, though!

Can you give more details as to what kind of micro you are talking about? Unless one is growing in a very nutrient-void/in-fertile soil or soil-less medium I don't understand the point..especially with Azomite/rockdust which breaks down so slowly it is ridiculously inefficient..

https://www.gardenmyths.com/rock-dust-remineralize-earth/

https://www.gardenmyths.com/fertilizer-garden-myths/

[socalbalcony]

Thank you both for your insights. Yes, this is about adding a dedicated micronutrient regiment. I thought that chelated micronutrients were superior to regular micros due to the added protection in the soil. Of course, I could be completely wrong as well!

I know some growers swear by Florikan as apart of their feeding regimens..

[Grow Tropicals]

If I understand the question correctly, it's not about foliar feeding, per se.  It's about adding a micro-nutrient regiment.  This is something I definitely recommend for edibles.  You can grow a pretty healthy plant with just N-P-K, but for the healthiest, most nutritious, with good pest and disease resistance, and highest brix levels, I do recommend (and personally add) micronutrients.  This can be done via foliar and/or by adding soil amendments like Azomite.

For foliar feeing, I don't think the chelation helps, but I don't think it will hurt, either.  I know chelation allows roots to absorb nutrients at a wider PH range but I don't think PH is an issue with foliar feeding.  I COULD be wrong on that, though!

Can you give more details as to what kind of micro you are talking about? Unless one is growing in a very nutrient-void/in-fertile soil or soil-less medium I don't understand the point..especially with Azomite/rockdust which breaks down so slowly it is ridiculously inefficient..

https://www.gardenmyths.com/rock-dust-remineralize-earth/

https://www.gardenmyths.com/fertilizer-garden-myths/

Well, I'm not sure I understand this question.  If by "what type" you're asking about brands, I use both Azomite and SEA-90, and I use liquid Kelp for phytonutrients.  If by "what type" you're asking about the type of micronutrients, there are many including things like Calcium, Magnesium, Sulfur, Iron, Boron, etc. 

As for the reason I add micronutrients... it doesn't matter what type of soil you're growing in, every time you grow something and/or harvest something, you're taking nutrients out of the soil.  IMHO, it's important to replace what you're taking out or eventually it becomes depleted.

[mangoba]

Thank you both for your insights. Yes, this is about adding a dedicated micronutrient regiment. I thought that chelated micronutrients were superior to regular micros due to the added protection in the soil. Of course, I could be completely wrong as well!

I think the pH of the water that gets added will make the difference.

[John B]

I know some growers swear by Florikan as apart of their feeding regimens..

Thanks, I use the cheap but good Gro-Power Citrus and Avocado food that does contain micros. It is also timed released but wasn't sure about the extra boosts.

[John B]

Thank you both for your insights. Yes, this is about adding a dedicated micronutrient regiment. I thought that chelated micronutrients were superior to regular micros due to the added protection in the soil. Of course, I could be completely wrong as well!

I think the pH of the water that gets added will make the difference.

How do you mean? Our water is pretty terrible. 7.4-7.8 PH. My soil PH is usually around 7.2-7.4

[K-Rimes]

Thank you both for your insights. Yes, this is about adding a dedicated micronutrient regiment. I thought that chelated micronutrients were superior to regular micros due to the added protection in the soil. Of course, I could be completely wrong as well!

Got ya, thought it was a spray - aka foliar.

Anyhow, I have been experimenting with a micronutrient liquid fertilizers from General Hydroponics that is formulated for hard water, which mine is as it's from a well - and is also 8.3-8.4ph so your water actually sounds kinda nice in comparision.

It has made an absolutely insane difference to my blueberries which obviously were lacking something nutritionally. They languished for the last 2.5 years or something and are now totally emerald green, thick leafed, and production / flavor was awesome. It was the only nutrition I gave them other than top dressing espoma soil acidifier and using phosphoric acid to get the PH right.

I also used it on jaboticaba, mangoes, etc as a drench and it did make some improvement but I can't say that it was really the sauce. I was also using slow release fertilizers, chicken manures and so on and they all performed nominally "normal" regardless of using the micros.

Tough to say on my end, but I will continue using it on the bluebs

[lebmung]

Thank you both for your insights. Yes, this is about adding a dedicated micronutrient regiment. I thought that chelated micronutrients were superior to regular micros due to the added protection in the soil. Of course, I could be completely wrong as well!

I think the pH of the water that gets added will make the difference.

How do you mean? Our water is pretty terrible. 7.4-7.8 PH. My soil PH is usually around 7.2-7.4

Use rain water or bring down the pH when formulating sprays

[K-Rimes]

Thank you both for your insights. Yes, this is about adding a dedicated micronutrient regiment. I thought that chelated micronutrients were superior to regular micros due to the added protection in the soil. Of course, I could be completely wrong as well!

I think the pH of the water that gets added will make the difference.

How do you mean? Our water is pretty terrible. 7.4-7.8 PH. My soil PH is usually around 7.2-7.4

Use rain water or bring down the pH when formulating sprays

I will echo that PH is crucial for nutrient uptake and nailing the PH correctly will solve a lot nutritionally - far more than just dumping on more of them.

[John B]

Got ya, thought it was a spray - aka foliar.

Anyhow, I have been experimenting with a micronutrient liquid fertilizers from General Hydroponics that is formulated for hard water, which mine is as it's from a well - and is also 8.3-8.4ph so your water actually sounds kinda nice in comparision.

It has made an absolutely insane difference to my blueberries which obviously were lacking something nutritionally. They languished for the last 2.5 years or something and are now totally emerald green, thick leafed, and production / flavor was awesome. It was the only nutrition I gave them other than top dressing espoma soil acidifier and using phosphoric acid to get the PH right.

I also used it on jaboticaba, mangoes, etc as a drench and it did make some improvement but I can't say that it was really the sauce. I was also using slow release fertilizers, chicken manures and so on and they all performed nominally "normal" regardless of using the micros.

Tough to say on my end, but I will continue using it on the bluebs

Thanks. I suppose it would be foliar or drench. Either way. Since I'm not looking for immediate correction, I figured plants can slowly acquire through drench. Never really thought about the hydroponics micros. I actually have that left over from some hydro grows. I'll have to see how it stacks up nutritionally. When I would run the Micro/bloom regime, it would bring the PH down to about 6.3 which was just about right.

[John B]

Use rain water or bring down the pH when formulating sprays

Thanks, this makes sense.

[Mark in Texas]

All high quality inorganic fertilizers (Peters, Osmocote, Dyna-Gro and others) contain a good micros package. If it aint broke, don't fix it as too much of a good thing can work against you if you go overboard.  Research the concept of nutrient antagonism where too much of one element induces a deficiency of one or more elements.  Good example is using high P foods which can induce micros deficiencies.  I got off the high P teat many years ago and use a balanced low P food like a 15-9-12.  If my faves need a high N hit then I resort to something like Peters High Performance 25-5-15. Has an excellent micros package.
 
Having said that there is no better micros supplement than Keyplex 350DP, soil drench or added to a foliar spray.

[Mark in Texas]

.....For foliar feeing, I don't think the chelation helps, but I don't think it will hurt, either.  I know chelation allows roots to absorb nutrients at a wider PH range but I don't think PH is an issue with foliar feeding.  I COULD be wrong on that, though!

Best aid for good nutrient uptake, especially P, is innoculating the root system with a quality mychorrizae product at the time of planting.  I have religiously innoculated/drenched 1,000's of trees, grapevines, and other stuff for the last 20 years.  Here's what I'm using now.  Bought it at Amazon, store in the fridge. 

[K-Rimes]

All high quality inorganic fertilizers (Peters, Osmocote, Dyna-Gro and others) contain a good micros package. If it aint broke, don't fix it as too much of a good thing can work against you if you go overboard.  Research the concept of nutrient antagonism where too much of one element induces a deficiency of one or more elements.  Good example is using high P foods which can induce micros deficiencies.  I got off the high P teat many years ago and use a balanced low P food like a 15-9-12.  If my faves need a high N hit then I resort to something like Peters High Performance 25-5-15. Has an excellent micros package.
 
Having said that there is no better micros supplement than Keyplex 350DP, soil drench or added to a foliar spray.

Interesting to hear you got off high P - I've been turning to it to try to induce flowering on a lot of trees I have with not much luck. 12-24-12. Seems it burnt some stuff in funny ways that I haven't seen before. You may be on to something but I can't help but think if these plants aren't flowering at all (and are definitely mature enough to) that I need to do *something* different.

[Mark in Texas]

Interesting to hear you got off high P - I've been turning to it to try to induce flowering on a lot of trees I have with not much luck. 12-24-12. Seems it burnt some stuff in funny ways that I haven't seen before. You may be on to something but I can't help but think if these plants aren't flowering at all (and are definitely mature enough to) that I need to do *something* different.

You've fallen for the very pervasive marketing hype stamped on all "bloom" food labels - "makes bigger and better blooms"....or fruit. How much P is really needed to support good flowering and fruiting.  That is the question.

For years I got very heavy fruit loads on all my tropical fruit trees in the greenhouse which has limited sun using this 9 month food.  It's very high in N, low in P.
 


I also applied it liberally on 1,000's of field planted Xmas trees, vineyard, about 60 trees around the new house, etc.

[Mark in Texas]

Also got excellent flowering with the slow release high N foods like these plumerias.

[K-Rimes]

Interesting to hear you got off high P - I've been turning to it to try to induce flowering on a lot of trees I have with not much luck. 12-24-12. Seems it burnt some stuff in funny ways that I haven't seen before. You may be on to something but I can't help but think if these plants aren't flowering at all (and are definitely mature enough to) that I need to do *something* different.

You've fallen for the very pervasive marketing hype stamped on all "bloom" food labels - "makes bigger and better blooms"....or fruit. How much P is really needed to support good flowering and fruiting.  That is the question.

For years I got very heavy fruit loads on all my tropical fruit trees in the greenhouse which has limited sun using this 9 month food.  If very high in N, low in P.
 


I also applied it liberally on 1,000's of field planted Xmas trees, vineyard, about 60 trees around the new house, etc.

Indeed, I have fallen for it - but one starts to wonder what's wrong when plants don't flower / fruit for them and are much larger than other comparable plants. Most of the time I just use chicken manure and a standard osmocote, but this year I changed it up more or less out of desperation.

[Mark in Texas]

Indeed, I have fallen for it - but one starts to wonder what's wrong when plants don't flower / fruit for them and are much larger than other comparable plants. Most of the time I just use chicken manure and a standard osmocote, but this year I changed it up more or less out of desperation.

Same with all the nonsense coming from a lot of the "organic and natural" industry.  Most of it's BS targeted to folks' lifestyles and mindsets.  These vendors could care less about plant nutrition. Some don't have a clue witness the Espoma Citrus Tone label.  It's laughable.

Roots is where it starts, period.  if you've seen my pix of the RootBuilder "pots" you know that's true.

High P or K foods don't promote flowering or fruiting.  Lots of healthy green foliage does.  Sounds likes something is not quite tuned right in your cultural activities.

If you're really anal about this buy one of those expensive chlorophyll meters that reads leaf tissue chlorophyll counts.

[K-Rimes]

Indeed, I have fallen for it - but one starts to wonder what's wrong when plants don't flower / fruit for them and are much larger than other comparable plants. Most of the time I just use chicken manure and a standard osmocote, but this year I changed it up more or less out of desperation.

Same with all the nonsense coming from a lot of the "organic and natural" industry.  Most of it's BS targeted to folks' lifestyles and mindsets.  These vendors could care less about plant nutrition. Some don't have a clue witness the Espoma Citrus Tone label.  It's laughable.

Roots is where it starts, period.  if you've seen my pix of the RootBuilder "pots" you know that's true.

High P or K foods don't promote flowering or fruiting.  Lots of healthy green foliage does.  Sounds likes something is not quite tuned right in your cultural activities.

If you're really anal about this buy one of those expensive chlorophyll meters that reads leaf tissue chlorophyll counts.

Good info for sure. I did heavily prune the non-producers last year and the plants are going to be much better at absorbing light. They were busy bushes and now they're nice halo top trees more or less. Just gonna cross my fingers and hope it works!

[socalbalcony]

Indeed, I have fallen for it - but one starts to wonder what's wrong when plants don't flower / fruit for them and are much larger than other comparable plants. Most of the time I just use chicken manure and a standard osmocote, but this year I changed it up more or less out of desperation.

Same with all the nonsense coming from a lot of the "organic and natural" industry.  Most of it's BS targeted to folks' lifestyles and mindsets.  These vendors could care less about plant nutrition. Some don't have a clue witness the Espoma Citrus Tone label.  It's laughable.

Roots is where it starts, period.  if you've seen my pix of the RootBuilder "pots" you know that's true.

High P or K foods don't promote flowering or fruiting.  Lots of healthy green foliage does.  Sounds likes something is not quite tuned right in your cultural activities.

If you're really anal about this buy one of those expensive chlorophyll meters that reads leaf tissue chlorophyll counts.

I agree heavily with most of what you've said, I do keep wondering though..

What about when you have plenty lush-ness/branches/vigorous growth etc even on quite mature plants but they seem to refuse to flower/fruit? Curious as to what is your counter to that?

[K-Rimes]

I had very few flowers at all on my Dragonfruit over the last few years and when I switched to 5-50-9 Koolbloom fertilizer at the end of last year, lo and behold I had lots! This year I started using it as soon as the weather was warm enough and had flowers right away, the earliest I've ever had them.

I sort of accept that yes, I've been "taken" by the high P marketing and that it will induce flowering but... Well... I have seen some casual results of high P application anyways.