Author Topic: Scion v. Budwood v. Cutting  (Read 1087 times)

Piss P

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Scion v. Budwood v. Cutting
« on: August 09, 2021, 09:17:26 AM »
Hello All!

New to the community and am having a hard time discerning between these. I know what each is used for but, taking a step back, what is the difference between the plant specimens themselves? Furthermore, as they seem to all be fairly similar, can all be used for rooting? Bud grafting? Traditional grafting?

Thanks!
PP

Laaz

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Re: Scion v. Budwood v. Cutting
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2021, 09:52:05 AM »
All the same.

Millet

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Re: Scion v. Budwood v. Cutting
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2021, 11:38:47 AM »
Grafting primarily is used to graft a mature piece of citrus wood onto a root stock so that the tree will produce fruit much faster then a tree grown from seed.  One choses a rootstock depending on the the type of soil, local diseases, and weather conditions in the area that the tree will be growing in.  A tree grown from seed can take up to 10+ years to  fruit, while a grafted tree using a mature scion can fruit in 1 to 2 years. In the past with the onset of HLB, rootstocks tolerant to HLB is used. 

Laaz

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Re: Scion v. Budwood v. Cutting
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2021, 12:14:28 PM »
Millet did you even read the question? Piss P to answer your question, all will produce fruit about the same time as long as the wood was taken from a mature tree. What does seed have to do with it? He didn't ask about seed...

poncirsguy

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Re: Scion v. Budwood v. Cutting
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2021, 12:57:06 PM »
All right!  Both of you are HERO members so I don't want the hear any cross words.

Piss P

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Re: Scion v. Budwood v. Cutting
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2021, 03:52:35 PM »
I appreciate the prompt and helpful responses! That cleared up my curiosity. 

Thanks y'all!
pp

Millet

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Re: Scion v. Budwood v. Cutting
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2021, 06:40:35 PM »
Piss P asks--can all be used for rooting" Some specimens root easy such as lemon, others root extremely difficult such as Flying Dragon. You will learn much through trying.

 Concerning bud grafting, the answer is yes, however Grafting between two species can also sometimes be incompatible, for example,  Carrizo & Troyer rootstock is incompatible with  Eureka Lemon. Trifoliate is also incompatible with Eureka lemon  There are other incompatible grafts.

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« Last Edit: August 09, 2021, 08:48:38 PM by Millet »

Laaz

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Re: Scion v. Budwood v. Cutting
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2021, 07:21:57 PM »
Trifoliate is also incompatible with Eureka lemon

Not true, an old wives tale. I have three Eureka grafted to trifoliata doing great.

Galatians522

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Re: Scion v. Budwood v. Cutting
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2021, 10:16:43 PM »
Hello All!

New to the community and am having a hard time discerning between these. I know what each is used for but, taking a step back, what is the difference between the plant specimens themselves? Furthermore, as they seem to all be fairly similar, can all be used for rooting? Bud grafting? Traditional grafting?

Thanks!
PP

They all come from the same stage of growth on the tree and people often use the terms interchangeably. It is the intended use that determines how the material is prepaired off the tree. If the intent is to root the propagation material as a cutting, some of the leaf will need to remain attached to generate photosynthesis. If the intent is to use the material for budding the blade of the leaf is removed, but a long portion of the petiole (stem) of the leaf is left to act as a handle. If the material will be used as a scion for grafting, the leaf is removed and the length of the petiole is inconsequential because there is no need to manipulate each bud individually.

Millet

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Re: Scion v. Budwood v. Cutting
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2021, 10:20:30 PM »
Laaz, the following is word for word taken from the University of California's Citrus  Production Manual,  Page 103.  QUOTE- Trifoliate is incompatible with Eureka.  Sorry, to tell you, your new lemons are OK currently, but they will not be in the future.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2021, 10:27:41 PM by Millet »

Galatians522

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Re: Scion v. Budwood v. Cutting
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2021, 10:31:00 PM »
Laaz, the following is word for word taken from the University of California's Citrus  Production Manual,  Page 103.  QUOTE- Trifoliate is incompatible with Eureka.  Your new lemons are OK currently, but they will not be in the future.

Some incompatibility is delayed. I have seen an entire grove of Murcott on Swingle that grew fine for 10 years only to begin declining and eventually die off by year 15. Stress seems to exacerbate incompatibility issues.

Citradia

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Re: Scion v. Budwood v. Cutting
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2021, 09:58:02 PM »
Is there a current list of everything that is incompatible with trifoliata so I donít waste time and effort? Yes, I will look up the California reference just made, and I will Google, but thanks in advance for any other lists/ references.

caladri

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Re: Scion v. Budwood v. Cutting
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2021, 02:12:47 AM »
"Graft compatibility" is a complex topic, and it depends what your goals and needs are.  For instance, some sources consider that Poncirus trifoliata is incompatible with some mandarins, and will overgrow at the union and ultimately girdle the tree; other sources consider that as this happens after 15 years, that's sufficient.  Poncirus is widely used as a rootstock in many places, in particular in Japan for almost everything.  It may make sense to consider what your actual goals are, rather than defaulting to grafting on Poncirus, as many citranges have across-the-board better performance in almost all settings.  And if you do have specific needs in terms of soil type or disease resistance, that would definitely guide your choice.  There's a lot of academic papers you can read on rootstock performance and compatibility, but the results are inconsistently reported, and vary between sites for the same kinds of rootstock.  In general, many sources will tell you that Poncirus is slower growing and less vigorous.  Do you care about tree size?  Do you have specific goals as far as fruit quality?  There are a lot of factors to take into consideration.  If you just want to play around with propagation, Poncirus is a great rootstock to use because of very broad compatibility.

Citradia

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Re: Scion v. Budwood v. Cutting
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2021, 07:30:06 PM »
Thanks caladri. I looked up several charts last night on compatibility and saw that poncirus is pretty universal except for some lemon/mandarin. I was hoping to find reference to Saint Teresa lemon on poncirus since I recently grafted some and hope they arenít doomed although they are actively growing now. I couldnít find an extensive list of many varieties nor could I find mention of my lemon either. I believe my lemon came to me on rough lemon rootstock. I wanted poncirus roots to make it a little more cold hardy in case I want to try an in ground trial in a cold frame like all my other varieties. My current Saint Teresa is in a big pot and hides from freezing temps inside my house.

pagnr

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Re: Scion v. Budwood v. Cutting
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2021, 05:32:02 AM »
How about PT Poncirus trifoliata vs FD Flying Dragon ?? There were some anecdotal reports in Australia that Eureka lemon was ok on FD, but not recommended for PT.

 

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