Recommended irrigation pH for SE Brazilian Plinias?

[Hermitian]

My irrigation water is currently at pH 6.2 although I can take it lower. What irrigation pH is recommended for SE Brazilian Plinias, e.g. Paulista, Sabara, Coroada?

Thanks in advance.

[achetadomestica]

Are your trees in the ground or in pots?
I water mine with well water that is 6.3 and mostly rain water that
is 7. Soil PH is also important. If the PH is too high the trees tend to get
chlorotic. How are your trees doing?

[Hermitian]

I have two Plinias in the ground and several seedlings in pots. My soils are such that the pH of the irrigation water sets the pH of the soils. Rainfall is scarce.

I have read both here and on sellers' sites that Plinias require acidic soil, but I've yet to see a target pH. Unfortunately "acidic" is not very specific. Many fruits and plants in general prefer slightly acidic pH of 6.2. Then there are some which prefer it a bit lower at 5.8. Additionally there are some northern berries which perform best at 4.5.

[achetadomestica]

The best indicator is how your trees are doing?

[Hermitian]

The best indicator is how your trees are doing?

I've no desire to spend months re-inventing the wheel. Also I have little patience with people (not you) spouting information when they really don't have a context for the subject.

If someone here knows of a pH study for Plinias I'd be interested in reading it. Otherwise no problem, I'll keep digging in the portuguese, british, and australian literature.

[K-Rimes]

The best indicator is how your trees are doing?

I will echo this is how I do it but I also understand not wanting to waste time finding out. Plinia are very expressive and will show chlorosis quickly if you get too alkaline. I haven't seen much difference erring too acidic. This makes sense as they're a tree that grows in deep decomposing soil which is likely acidic.

I treat my water to between 5.0-5.5 with a PH down product and they are always lush green. If I water off my hose (7.8-8.4 depending on season) because of laziness for a week or two, they go chloritic pretty quick and it's hard to bring them back around.

If you are nutso about PH'ing your water or soil, they really respond. The FL and Hawaii folks don't have to worry as much, they all have more acidic PH from what I see.

[Hermitian]

I treat my water to between 5.0-5.5 with a PH down product and they are always lush green.

Thank you that is a useful data point. These are in potting mix or local Santa Barbara soil?

[K-Rimes]

I treat my water to between 5.0-5.5 with a PH down product and they are always lush green.

Thank you that is a useful data point. These are in potting mix or local Santa Barbara soil?

I run FoxFarm Ocean forest mixed with pumice for drainage. It's more of a "medium" than it is a soil, imo. The local soil where I'm at is also extremely alkaline. I have had trouble growing anything truly tropical (read: acid loving) in my local soil. Plums, nectarines, cherimoya, etc are fine. I did do a planting of blueberry bushes that were near death in their pots and top dressed with 20 bags of chicken manure and then 5lb of sulfur and they're doing fine, so it's not impossible... Just being sand with zero organic material means it drains way too fast for plinia (imo).

[Hermitian]

I run FoxFarm Ocean forest mixed with pumice for drainage.

Ok! So your soil pH will be set by the irrigation water.

It's more of a "medium" than it is a soil

I agree.

[K-Rimes]

FoxFarm already leans acidic and is 5.5 at purchase. It’s easier to hold it there with ph’d water.

Changing in ground soil ph is more complex and has so many variables. I know some CA growers have really nice in ground plinia but I see it more in cultivated grassy backyard style, not rural oak mountain (like I where I live)

[Hermitian]

For blueberries in Western environments I recommend trying the Monrovia hybrid Sunshine Blue in half-day sun, in an even-volume mix of horticultural (general-purpose) sand, ground sphagnum moss, and kiln-dried 1/4" orchard bark (e.g. Sequoia brand). In this mix they do very well at pH 6.2. The berries are small in the first few years but with adequate root development the bushes are loaded with respectable size berries March-July.

[Rtreid]

Hi Richard!

Always the contrarian, I water all my jaboticabas with San Diego tap water and they are doing just great (I am eating crop #4 from my P. Pithrantha as I write this). I am finding that with a good soil they are pretty forgiving as far as water goes. I have planted most of mine in a ferringenious sandstone soil with a thick layer of mushroom compost and they do great. The few that I have in the more typical San Diego clay soil do fairly well but not quite as well as the others.

The “Paulista” plants I received from you years ago are doing well for me, but have not fruited yet.

Come by for a visit some time.

Cheers,
Richard

[Hermitian]

Richard!

Of course I'm jealous of your soil and municipal water. When I lived in Peñasquitos our supply was pH 7 but up here in the Vista Irrigation District it is a stubborn 8. The soil here is alternating inclined layers of tidal lagoon and ocean-leached sands. So I did some terraforming and I also fertigate. I planted one of those Paulistas in the ground 6 years ago and it's now about 15' - still hoping to see it fruit someday. Next to it is a young Cambuca pushing 4'. Both of them have been on an 'acid' circuit that also serves my blueberries.

Here though I'm concerned with young seedlings in 5" x 12" treepots that I'm raising for genome sequencing next year. Some of the plants arrived with dire warnings about acidic conditions so I'm trying to nail down parameters that can be measured. More information about my sequencing project can be found at geneticdistance.org.

[K-Rimes]

Richard!

Of course I'm jealous of your soil and municipal water. When I lived in Peñasquitos our supply was pH 7 but up here in the Vista Irrigation District it is a stubborn 8. The soil here is alternating inclined layers of tidal lagoon and ocean-leached sands. So I did some terraforming and I also fertigate. I planted one of those Paulistas in the ground 6 years ago and it's now about 15' - still hoping to see it fruit someday. Next to it is a young Cambuca pushing 4'. Both of them have been on an 'acid' circuit that also serves my blueberries.

Here though I'm concerned with young seedlings in 5" x 12" treepots that I'm raising for genome sequencing next year. Some of the plants arrived with dire warnings about acidic conditions so I'm trying to nail down parameters that can be measured. More information about my sequencing project can be found at geneticdistance.org.

Wow, really cool project. It sounded like you were more just getting into plinia but seems the opposite is true. I'm really looking for mature paulista scion... If you have any spare when it flowers, please let me know.

[Hermitian]

K-Rimes,
I came across an article discussing experimental clonal propagation of Brazilian Plinias by auxin-induced air-layers. I'm going to check the details with other horticulture researchers before  attempting trials next year.

[Rtreid]

Interesting project, what kind of genome sesuencing are you planning on doing? Whole genome, transcriptome, AFLP?  I started a similar project a few years ago, but things at the lab got too busy and I had to put it on the back burner.  You have me thinking I should start it up again.  I do have DNA samples from about 20 plants that I could share if you do not need too much.

Cheers,
Richard

[Hermitian]

what kind of genome sesuencing are you planning on doing?

Whole genome chromatin DNA of 5 Pawpaw cultivars, a male & female Kei Apple, 7 Mulberry cultivars, 16 Fig cultivars, and 9 Plinia cultivars. The lab imaging device is a PacBio Sequel IIe.

[K-Rimes]

K-Rimes,
I came across an article discussing experimental clonal propagation of Brazilian Plinias by auxin-induced air-layers. I'm going to check the details with other horticulture researchers before  attempting trials next year.

In this case I'm just looking for pruned branches for grafting, I have some big cocktail trees and would really like to add mature paulista - but indeed, air-layering is of great interest to me as well. There are tons of branches on my fruiting sabara that need to go for aesthetic / airflow reasons and would be very pleased if they turned into near fruiting specimens instead of mulch.

[Hermitian]

air-layering is of great interest to me as well.

PM sent.