Author Topic: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree  (Read 1652 times)

CTMIAMI

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Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« on: January 16, 2022, 03:46:40 PM »

I planted this tree about 2 months ago, A Red Annona Squamosa from Lara 3 gal grafted. It shed all the leaves from the shock, but it has been struggling to foliate again due to these little monsters, that are hard to kill.  As soon as the new growth starts to push, they kill it. I never had to deal with these black Aphis.  The ones in the video were spray two hours before with Bifenthrin and were still alive when I put them on the microscope. I suspect these in addition to sucking the sap they may be carriers for some wilting fungus. 

https://youtu.be/myKliqbFTeY

Carlos
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www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

TheVeggieProfessor

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Re: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2022, 04:38:00 PM »
I've had success just crushing them with my fingers a few times per day when they infested my yard long beans. Just have to stay on top of them. Eventually lady bugs will show up to help.

achetadomestica

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Re: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2022, 06:31:15 PM »
I was going to suggest Bifenthrin
It's the only thing I found that kills the Sri Lankan Weevil.
I thought it killed everything?

pineislander

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Re: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2022, 07:55:23 AM »
I've had success just crushing them with my fingers a few times per day when they infested my yard long beans. Just have to stay on top of them. Eventually lady bugs will show up to help.
They may not eventually show up if the environment is small like a tree with no cover of leaves. Also, in a standard grove environment which is usually mowed and/or herbicide treated there just isn't much nearby habitat for the predators. There may also be ants protecting the aphids, that is very common the ants will also actually bring the aphids to the growth and farm it. I was given some of this type ant gel by a friend who does pest control. It was very effective just squirt a small amount where the ants pass by and within a few hours they congregate and begin feeding. Within a couple of days the ants are gone.
https://www.pedchem.com/products/advion-ant-bait-gel-indoxacarb

CTMIAMI

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Re: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2022, 08:40:11 AM »
it is strange because I treated for ants about a 5 weeks ago with Bifenthrin  in my experimental Annona section and there are no ants in the tree or anywhere within 30 ft of this tree.   I don't know where these come from there are 1000's of Aphids types I had never had to deal with these black ones.  I will check later today if they still are alive on the tree my Bifenthrin has lost its potency, (first time in my life) of these little musters are resistant.   Why they pick this tree is a mystery to me. Aphids females at one point fly and lay eggs.
Carlos
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www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

JakeFruit

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Re: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2022, 08:54:29 AM »
I've had success just crushing them with my fingers a few times per day when they infested my yard long beans. Just have to stay on top of them. Eventually lady bugs will show up to help.
They may not eventually show up if the environment is small like a tree with no cover of leaves. Also, in a standard grove environment which is usually mowed and/or herbicide treated there just isn't much nearby habitat for the predators. There may also be ants protecting the aphids, that is very common the ants will also actually bring the aphids to the growth and farm it. I was given some of this type ant gel by a friend who does pest control. It was very effective just squirt a small amount where the ants pass by and within a few hours they congregate and begin feeding. Within a couple of days the ants are gone.
https://www.pedchem.com/products/advion-ant-bait-gel-indoxacarb
Advion ant gel does work very well, I let a ghost ant invasion go on way too long in my house and it took care of it. Took almost a month of continual reapplication of the gel to completely eradicate them; it would kill off a generation of them, I'd think it was over, only to see really tiny juveniles emerge (who had obviously just hatched).

The gel dries/hardens in a few days and I'd think rain/water would wash it away fairly quickly. When you notice the ants aren't after it anymore, apply some fresh gel. Also, if it loses its clear appearance (takes on a brownish tint) it's gone bad/expired. It has a very definite shelf-life; once it expires the ants won't be interested in it anymore.

skhan

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Re: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2022, 09:06:10 AM »
I don't have a scale problem but I do get other sucking insects (whiteflies and Leafhoppers).
I started to use Imidacloprid drench once a year while the trees are young to help them get established better.
The organic methods that seem to work involved pretty expensive stuff with weekly spraying (Botniguard and azadirachtin) and I couldn't keep up.

I get scale on my abiu and i use tanglefoot for that to stop the ants

K-Rimes

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Re: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2022, 11:21:24 AM »
I don't have a scale problem but I do get other sucking insects (whiteflies and Leafhoppers).
I started to use Imidacloprid drench once a year while the trees are young to help them get established better.
The organic methods that seem to work involved pretty expensive stuff with weekly spraying (Botniguard and azadirachtin) and I couldn't keep up.

I get scale on my abiu and i use tanglefoot for that to stop the ants

I gave up on organic stuff and also use imidacloprid if it's out of control. I especially don't mind using it on non-producing or juvenile trees but try to stop when they are fruiting actively.

Scalebug is effecting a lot of stuff I have so I'll probably need to go hard in the greenhouse to clear it out. Sprays of neem and pyrethrin haven't been doing it.

Epicatt2

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Re: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2022, 02:25:39 PM »
I, too, had an infestation of aphids and scales on some of my fruit trees and on a gardenia.  Both pests were being farmed by ants.  I treated the affected plants/areas with bifenthrin granules but the ants (they were crazy ants, BTW) just walked thru the bifenthrin; it never fazed them and they just kept on 'farming'.

Subsequently I tried using Imidacloprid granules around the base of the affected plants and watering it in per instructions for the product.  That killed both the aphids and scales, plus when the ants 'discovered' that their 'farmed animals' were dying they moved to other non-fruiting, non-treated plants in the yard.  When the Imacloprid's effect wore off the ants came back to my fruit trees and resumed 'farming'.  Then when more Imidacloprid was re-applied the ants left again. 

Eventually, after continued re-treating my afffected plants the crazy ants did give up and apparently moved elsewhere and I've had no further problems wth aphids and scales.  I recommend using Imidacloprid.

Paul M.
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achetadomestica

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Re: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2022, 03:33:34 PM »
The Imidacloprid drench is suppose to last 90 days.
If you hit it now then hopefully the beetles will pollinate the
tree this Spring? You may have to sacrifice the fruit this year to
save the tree?

K-Rimes

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Re: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2022, 04:20:38 PM »
Imidacloprid is supposedly fine for eating after 2 weeks in the soil. I dunno, reading about how it makes insect's brains explode seems uhm, a lil concerning for consumption haha.

Epicatt2

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Re: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2022, 04:53:05 PM »
Imidacloprid is supposedly fine for eating after 2 weeks in the soil. I dunno, reading about how it makes insect's brains explode seems uhm, a lil concerning for consumption haha.

Just to address your comments above:

Imidacloprid interrupts the life cycle of the developing insect so that it cannot mature and reproduce. That means if the insect is in one of it's immature instars then the insect cannot further develop towards attaining a mature form which could then reproduce.   And that puts the brakes –so to speak– on, keeping any more scales and aphids from being created.

And yes, the fruit is safe to eat some two weeks after a soil application of Imidacloprid granules and watering them in.

Of course here in west central Florida with our frequent, strong summer rains and generally sandy soil, the Imidacloprid lasts more like two months instead of 90 days. But it does work for me although I do have to apply it more frequently because of the rains.

Paul M.
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K-Rimes

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Re: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2022, 05:02:56 PM »
I try so hard to not use treatments at home but then I realize any time I eat fruit from a grocery store, it's probably had the entire "icide" book thrown at it for fungal, insects, etc, so, I don't worry too much anymore. For as effective as it is, I would wager imidacloprid use must be widespread in agriculture.

CTMIAMI

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Re: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2022, 05:03:32 PM »
Did an imidacloprid + Propiconazole drench. Believe, convinced, these black Aphids carry a wilting fungus.  This tree is too small to worry about any fruit now. 



Carlos
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K-Rimes

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Re: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2022, 05:06:55 PM »
Did an imidacloprid + Propiconazole drench. Believe, convinced, these black Aphids carry a wilting fungus.  This tree is too small to worry about any fruit now. 




My annonas, even in the greenhouse, have that sometimes too. I've always suspected it to be winter blues / coming out of dormancy too early.

Malhar

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Re: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2022, 08:36:12 PM »
How do you do the Imidacloprid drench specifically and what dose do you use?

CTMIAMI

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Re: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2022, 07:41:20 AM »
I use 12 ml (about a 1/3 of an oz in a gallon of water. I use 40% Imidacloprid.  Same amount of 41% propiconazole.  We will see in a few weeks if it works well.  I would only use on non-bearing fruit trees.
Carlos
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www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

brian

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Re: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2022, 08:32:24 AM »
imidacloprid drenching has been a huge help for me.  It eradicated the cottony cushion scale I was fighting for years with sprays.  Seems to help with armored scale and mealybugs somewhat, but less effective.  Doesn't help with sprider mites, though.  I don't ever see ants or aphids in my greenhouse anymore, I think they are the weakest and first to succumb to the pesticide.

I only apply when the trees are far from fruiting.  I bought high concentration imidacloprid on amazon for fairly cheap.

BestDay

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Re: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2022, 10:49:44 AM »
12ml per gallon of a 40% solution sounds like a huge dose. I have used 2.5ml of a 21% solution and had good results.

Bill

Malhar

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Re: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2022, 12:47:14 PM »
12ml per gallon of a 40% solution sounds like a huge dose. I have used 2.5ml of a 21% solution and had good results.

Bill

Is this dose for potted trees or in-ground trees?

Dose would probably depend upon the size of the tree.

BestDay

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Re: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2022, 01:27:30 PM »
That is for potted plants and small trees. I have used it on small seedlings all the way up to 15 gallon plants. 2.5ml per gallon is the concentration. Bigger pots would get more water and therefore a higher dose. I try to use the smallest possible effective dose.

Bill

Malhar

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Re: Black Aphids are sucking the life of my Annona tree
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2022, 02:43:01 PM »
That is for potted plants and small trees. I have used it on small seedlings all the way up to 15 gallon plants. 2.5ml per gallon is the concentration. Bigger pots would get more water and therefore a higher dose. I try to use the smallest possible effective dose.

Bill

Makes total sense. Thanks