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Messages - CeeJey

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1
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: should I get a Jamaica cherry?
« on: October 26, 2024, 04:48:55 PM »
Quote from: SplorKeLZ on October 26, 2024, 01:34:48 PM
i am interested in growing some fun temperate fruit but we dont really have any more space in our yard for trees unfortunately :( i am going to try to get a few differnt grape vines going and maybe a maypop passionfruit although i dont know how well they would grow here. if you could grow only one temperate fruit tree which would it be? i already have access to a lot of persimmons, apples and sour plums so i probably wont get one of those

I second K-Rimes' pluot suggestion, or a good peach. If you're limited on space but can fit one last tree in, you can graft multiple varieties of stonefruit onto the same tree (which is also fun, and can be pretty in the spring to see a tree covered in different flowers). Smaller than a tree, I'd fill the whole dang yard with thornless blackberries (and blueberries, raspberries, honeyberries, etc.) and concord grapes but that's me.

If you want something that hits the novelty factor of the Jamaican cherry and have space for a smallish (1'x3'tall) houseplant inside, you could try sourcing a fruiting size miracle fruit and stick it under a $9 grow light on a timer and it'll produce a small crop of berries a couple of times a year. Sometimes people here get down on it since the novelty wears off, but we make a little event out of it every time it fruits. They're really low maintenance as long as you read up on the initial soil requirements and don't overfeed it.

2
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: should I get a Jamaica cherry?
« on: October 25, 2024, 10:27:19 PM »
Just a heads up: they need sun and heat, and they HATE cold. Frost will kill them dead down into the roots and they struggle here even with winter protection and we don't get THAT cold. If you can haul them into the house or greenhouse in pots to overwinter it might be doable.

Quote from: Coconut Cream on October 24, 2024, 10:23:20 PM
Growing in a pot could be problematic, the natural growth habit is very tall and spreading, the pot is going to want to tip over and it will become a nuisance quickly. Kind of like keeping a Great Dane in a 1 bedroom apartment.

I have a few in 7 gallon air pots and keep them trimmed to about 6-7 feet (so that I can haul them onto the covered porch in winter for warmth). They can get a little bit gnarly with regular trimming but mine don't seem to care and the pot seems to limit the growth quite a bit (I had one in the ground that got to 12 feet in one year before the frost got it). Wouldn't be surprised if they could be kept smaller.

EDIT: All that said I'd probably rather have a berry plant of some kind if I were in Washington, but I do like the way mutingia calabura look. They're pretty trees, even kept small.

3
Tropical Fruit Discussion / How much space do Rollinia and Sugar Apple need minimum?
« on: October 25, 2024, 10:20:32 PM »
Hey all,

I'm working on figuring out the final placement for a Rollinia and a Sugar Apple (I wasn't planning on the sugar apple surviving a summer and winter in a pot, but here we are), and since yard space on the true tropicals side of the yard is at a bit of a premium, I'm wondering how much space I should be giving them to fruit eventually. Since we're in Phoenix, they're likely not going to be able to get gigantic (summer sun, etc) but a ballpark from someone who has fruited these before would be nice.

4
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Miracle Fruit-Most improved fruit after consuming
« on: April 05, 2024, 07:11:43 PM »
Feijoa is my personal favorite, or blackberries.

5
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Online nursery warning: Wellspring Gardens
« on: March 30, 2024, 08:08:28 PM »
Yeah I've had pretty mixed to not great experiences with Wellspring too. Never gotten one of their bananas but definitely ordered a couple of plants that showed up as a 4-inch twig with a single brown-tipped leaf hanging on for dear life, a couple of the manihot showed up okay and some didn't do so well. Not my favorite.

6
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: WOLFE LOQUAT
« on: March 30, 2024, 07:55:07 PM »
Hey Hannah, I have a Bradenton that I just planted last year, I don't know if I can get a proper scion off it yet (it's still getting established) but I should be able to next year for sure. I also have a Bradenton-parent seedling from last year's fruit if you want to roll the dice on that tasting like the parent eventually.

Re Arizona options, Shamus O'Leary's in South Mountain Phoenix area periodically has Bradenton in stock, but they typically only have the grafted ones Fall-Feb (they start roasting in April or so). I know some people have bad experiences with that shop and yes, the owner can be real rude, but I mention it as they do stock the thing sometimes.

I've never seen a Wolfe for sale anywhere out here in the Phoenix area, though. Or in SoCal for that matter. But if I do I'll let you know.

@Kaz: Just to weigh in with an additional data point, I agree with Hannah that the Bradentons taste excellent and are really fruity, very flavorful compared to some of the others. I like them a little better than Big Jim and Christmas but close? Although I do feel like it's got less of that loquat flavor I'd classify as "refreshing" that some of them have (apricot maybe? I'm not sure how to quantify that). So it's hard to compare.

7
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Seedling guava started flowering at 6 months old
« on: March 30, 2024, 09:35:17 AM »
Quote from: sc4001992 on March 27, 2024, 04:13:17 PM
That is impressive if it is from seed. Will be interesting to see if the fruits taste good or not.

Definitely from seed, I haven't tried starting any guava from cuttings yet. And yeah, I'm interested to see how the taste is, although I try not to make any judgements from the first year fruiting :P

Quote from: BloomAndSprout on March 28, 2024, 02:05:25 PM
Is it contained in a small pot with the roots constricted? Interesting

It's been in a small (2 gallon or so) air pot since it first flowered, but prior to that was in a standard #1 nursery pot, yeah.

Quote from: huertasurbanas on March 28, 2024, 04:58:12 PM
Congrats! it could be from my seeds.. it if has less than 10 secondary veins, it is not Psidium guajava, maybe P. guineense or some hybrid.

Oh interesting, I didn't know that about the secondary veins. Yeah, comparing it versus the psidium guajava I have in the yard vs pics of hybrids and p. guineense online, the foilage looks more similar to those. Which is interesting since I was pretty sure that my hybrids I started last year died in a really terrible watering miscommunication last year when I was briefly out of town. Guess we'll see what the fruit looks like when/if it sets.

8
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Seedling guava started flowering at 6 months old
« on: March 27, 2024, 03:39:53 PM »
This thing started flowering at six months in the middle of winter outdoors, is now nine months old and is flowering again... this is relatively odd, right? This seems like a mutant.

And of course it lost the tag, so I'm not sure what kind it is (I think either a wild Hawaiian, some Brazilian variety from Marcos, or a Green Apple from Green Planet, I was growing seeds of all those around the same time). Guess I'll find out sooner rather than later at the rate this thing is trying to produce...




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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: How well does Cambuca (Plinia edulis) do with high pH soil/water?
« on: March 26, 2024, 04:35:30 PM »
Quote from: growinginphoenix on March 25, 2024, 12:27:20 PM
@CeeJey, do you have this in ground in Phoenix? Does it take the cold/heat? How long have you had your plant(s)?

1-3 years old, they've all survived at least one summer and one winter outside although in both cases under shade protection; that said I think I'm under-sunning them and almost all of my plinia during spring and fall at the moment.

I don't have any of these in the ground and probably won't for a while, my soil is heavy clay here and requires a lot of adjustment to keep some of the acid-lovers happy; sandier areas of phoenix I might have an easier time. These were seed started as an experiment only.

They're probably not what I would go with here for plinia aside from an experiment; they're not dead but they're not super happy.

As far as plinia go, Otto Anderson jabos, INTA and Camp Ramon from Marcos and some of the Taiwanese jabo varieties seem to be the least stressed of all the stuff I have tried out here so far in terms of conditions, along with about a tenth of the hundred-something reds and sabara I've started (Restinga take our water and ph okay but they do NOT handle our summers well).

10
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: How well does Cambuca (Plinia edulis) do with high pH soil/water?
« on: March 25, 2024, 06:34:00 AM »
I have extremely salty water in this part of phoenix, and cambuca seem to react similarly to other plinia, in that they usually always have burn on the leaves but seem to get used to it over time and push out new growth periodically. I'm hoping they grow out of it but it's probably not doing them any favors. Not as tolerant as the more salt-tolerant jaboticaba varieties (Otto Anderson types, etc.).

It hasn't killed any that I started, unlike some other relatives (e. repanda, etc.).

11
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Achacha issue: pale new growth
« on: March 18, 2024, 10:36:56 PM »
Yep, same, all mine either have pink or reddish new growth that fades to green. One has yellowish like a lemondrop that also fades to green. They just do that.

12
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Ice cream bean questions
« on: February 21, 2024, 03:12:58 AM »
Quote from: drymifolia on February 18, 2024, 03:23:42 PM
I'm mostly interested in learning about their tolerance for frequent cold (non-freezing) temperatures in winter, as my greenhouse is only heated to prevent freezing, and is usually in the 30s and low 40s for most of the winter. Some things like dragonfruit just cannot handle it, while avocados and some south american species like Physalis peruviana flourish and even keep growing vigorously all winter.

Also, whether anyone has tried using bonsai techniques (wide/shallow pot and root pruning) to reduce the vigor a bit. If I end up liking it enough to grow, that would be my long-term plan to help keep it under about 9 feet tall.

I have a couple in the yard in Phoenix, and the established one can take 30s and 40s just fine (it goes dormant-ish) except it sometimes loses some tips in the low 30's and will absolutely die back to a stump from actual frost. Under a cover they don't seem to care, especially not seedlings.

Might be worth trying an air pot for a bonsai one, I have a couple of leggy seedlings doing okay in airpots but too young to fruit.

Quote from: brian on February 18, 2024, 05:39:26 PM
I am doubtful that bonsai culture will keep these fruiting at a reasonable size.  Mine didnt fruit until it had a 2.5in diam trunk.  It fills its container with 100% roots and even my root pruning it severely along with removing major limbs occasionally doesn't seem to slow its growth.

There's a nursery in LA that had air layers at least a year old (probably two based on the span of the lateral branches, these had been sitting there a while) that were fruiting in five gallon pots in December, like eight or nine pods on a four-foot tree. I picked up two and one is still in the five gallon pot, one just got planted, both are putting on a new round of flowers.  Probably depends on the tree. I can take pictures tomorrow of the one I just planted. EDIT: I'm trying to remember which freaking nursery, it was south of Compton.

13
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What are some supposedly high-chill plants you fruited in a subtropical zone?
« on: January 05, 2024, 09:01:06 PM »
Quote from: Calusa on January 05, 2024, 10:04:05 AM
Back in the 90's I successfully grew Ein Sheimer and Anna apples in Hillsborough County Florida. They produced impressive crops every year but the apples were pretty small and not the best eating apples, but they weren't bad. Also grew some Florida Prince freestone peaches which were absolutely delicioso.

I have a Dorsett Golden that I accidentally planted on the "zone 10" side of the yard (near a west facing brick wall) and it still produces (heck, it held fruit through a 112+ heat wave). Similar to your case, they're on the small side, but might make a decent pastry filling when there's enough of them. Winter was exceptionally warm last year, too. Also have an Ein Sheimer and an Anna on the other side of the yard that haven't fruited yet but maybe this year.

EDIT: More on topic, a lot of the "400 or less" stonefruit here iin Phoenix seems to be well on the "less" side and there are a couple of 450ish that seem to be more in the 200 range here. Cherries are a hard nope although I don't know if anyone has seriously tried Capulin out here (I had some seedlings but they died).

14
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Epigenetic cold tolerance in plants
« on: January 05, 2024, 08:52:53 PM »
If I get some time next week (unlikely but miracles happen) I might try to cross-reference some of the chemical changes in the research relating to epigenetic expression with anything induced by application of a foilar or root amendment. It's possible there might be some stuff to kick-start the plant's own natural defenses that increases the chances of epigenetic change.

I've been trying all sorts of crap this year for potential temperature hardiness (in both directions) but way too haphazardly to be able to make any solid conclusions, it's more just throwing things at the wall to see if anything sticks. Anecdotally both of my allspice seedlings are currently pushing new growth (somehow) after they had to be taken inside in these temps last year (these are seedlings from an adapted tree out here), and the one-year-old unprotected mamoncillo isn't flinching at the nighttime lows in the 30s yet.

Good luck this week, drymifolia.

15
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Will canistel fruit in part shade? Sun tolerance?
« on: January 05, 2024, 08:41:27 PM »
Quote from: Finca La Isla on January 05, 2024, 08:05:44 AM
I wouldn’t really call canistel sub tropical. It’s widely adaptable. Normally it’s grown in full sun and on my farm in CR canistel produces much better with more sun. However you have a very different situation in Arizona. Grafted canistel fruits for me here in 3 years in full sun. I’d be cautious about trying to work in the shade. Perhaps full sun or at least several hours and experiment with some shade cloth.
Peter

Thanks Peter. I might try slowing acclimating it this year by moving it to lighter and lighter shade cloth, which I've done with a couple of the other plants successfully to get them into full sun. It's already shown that it can handle a week of 115+ without flinching in the part shade, so the temp shouldn't be an issue at least.
It's hard to tell with things out here; some things still flower and fruit just fine in part shade while some just won't and there's nothing but personal experience to tell sometimes.

After doing some work in other places closer to the equator that objectively have more sun than here, I'm starting to believe that the lack of humidity combined with the sun is the bigger issue than the raw sunlight. The UV index in most of Puerto Rico is higher average in the summer than here, but lots of stuff will burn here rapidly over 100 that just won't elsewhere. There's some ways to mitigate that with close companion planting and overwatering but at a certain point there's a limit.

16
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Will canistel fruit in part shade? Sun tolerance?
« on: January 05, 2024, 01:28:58 AM »
Hey gang, I have a question for canistel owners. Anyone have one in part shade that bears fruit? I've had a grafted Fairchild for several years on my back patio in an large air-root pot, I'm thinking about transferring it to the ground and am trying to select a location. It hasn't flowered yet (it's about four feet tall) although it's never shown much stress from the temperature fluctuations out here, it's been in part shade since the day I got it. It might be able to handle some more sun given that it has the "shiny green" leaves that tend to handle our sun better.

I don't know anyone who has a fruiting one (or even anyone else that has a live one, although I'm sure there's somebody) out here in the Phoenix area, and normal protocol is "morning sun/ afternoon shade" for just about every subtropical fruit tree.

Thoughts?

17
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Green Sapote best light/sun conditions?
« on: November 04, 2023, 08:51:18 PM »
Thanks gang, these are helpful data points, my gut reaction was part shade as well although I think I need something closer to 30% (aka "thinned moringa/ pomegranate") or full morning sun since at 50% right now it's noticeably bending towards the southwest. It survived the 115s though which is the hard part in any shade.

Quote from: K-Rimes on November 04, 2023, 07:58:42 PM
I recently saw a fruiting lucuma here on the central coast which was living in mostly shade of mac nuts and a white sapote, was producing very nicely. I would be looking for a part shade area in AZ. I just can't see one tolerating full sun 100f+ and low humidity.

I did plant a green sapote in full sun at my office, but it's less than 1 mile from the ocean so it's pretty moderate. It hasn't even blinked and is growing nicely. 1 gallon size. I'll get a photo of it this week if I remember to.

I envy that marine layer.

Mine actually seems to be able to take full sun most of the day at just about 99-101 (the wind knocked the shade fabric off for a couple of days before I noticed). It's actually doing better than my macnut seedlings. But unless it's a serious mutant I don't see how it manages 115+ for a week in all-day sun like we get in July. Sometimes they surprise me though.

18
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Green Sapote best light/sun conditions?
« on: November 04, 2023, 06:25:43 PM »
Hey all,

I've had a green sapote seedling survive its first awful summer out here in Phoenix under 50% shade cloth in a pot (did pretty well actually, kept growing steadily), and I'm thinking about where to plant it for long term. My thought is to plant it in a moderately shady space and let it go get the sun when it is ready similar to some other plants that start out as under story in their original habitat, but I wanted some other opinions since I have little experience with this one. It's kind of rare so I don't want to put it in a place that is going to burn in the summer once it gets too large to effectively use shade cloth but I also don't want to stunt it's growth too much. The one mamey that I had was surprisingly sun tolerant before it died of general nutrient pissiness but that's my only point of reference.

Thoughts?

19
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: trees that suffer injury below 45F / 7C?
« on: September 21, 2023, 04:21:19 PM »
RE autocarpus, anyone have experience knowing how more established kwai muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) do in the 40s? Mine had some leaf damage and I had to pull them inside last year in the low-40s but they were very small, I'm trying to decide if I should try planting some out near the brick wall this year, or letting them stay in pots another year to get some mass.

I'm actively working on trying to get colder-hardy mamoncillo; I had two mamoncillo out of fifteen or so last year that survived with only a little leaf damage all mesa winter with brief drops into the low 40s, but they were all on a stone patio and got the radiant heat from underneath. Y'all northern folk need to bring back fruit walls: https://99percentinvisible.org/article/fruit-walls-before-greenhouses-walled-gardens-created-urban-micro-climates/

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Kei apple cold tolerance
« on: September 18, 2023, 05:59:37 PM »
Quote from: hammer524 on September 18, 2023, 03:44:34 PM
Quote from: brian on September 18, 2023, 03:30:33 PM
hammer524, can you tell us a bit about your situation?  You only have one tree?  Is it a seedling or clone?  If a clone, where'd you get it? :)


... and how big was it when it first flowered?

I planted this last weekend in ground, it was purchased from Greenlife nursery here. It lost a large branch in our monsoon last month. It was about this size. I've been leaning on its a rooted cutting. but Im not sure.


Huh. Did you get that this year? A couple of months ago I dropped by Greenlife after a visit to their neighbor (worm farm) and they had kei apples but the pots were marked male and female when I was there. They were definitely air-layered or rooted cuttings.

EDIT: Oops just saw that you got it a few years back. Interesting.

21
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Kei apple cold tolerance
« on: September 17, 2023, 07:09:31 PM »
Same thing happened to my seedlings but due to the heat stress ironically. A year's worth of growth died during the July/August heat wave and they regrew from the roots, after making it through last year's summer fine in the same conditions.

22
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Phoenix End of Summer Outdoor Jabo Report
« on: September 14, 2023, 02:03:06 PM »
Quote from: hammer524 on September 14, 2023, 11:14:49 AM

I have been to Queen Creek Tropicals a few times but they get quite colder that us concrete folk. Are there others in QC growing Jabos?

Now that I think about it, the one person out there growing jaboticaba specifically ended up moving, but he had some reds in pots for at least a couple of years. I'm sure somebody out there is still trying though. More folks out in South Mountain or East Mesa I guess, where the official thermostat numbers on the web may look similar but where if I used the layout they had in relation to block walls, my stuff would be charcoal, and where I can get away with stuff through winter that they can't.

Also I forgot to mention but I probably had to add more lateral shade cloth due to the pool sending gobs of reflected light out from ground level. I'll test this out next year but I'm betting that growing the pots over lawn or groundcover (sweet potato vines even) away from the pool lasers I would have gotten less stress on some of them.

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Can anyone confirm if this is a purple mangosteen plant!
« on: September 14, 2023, 03:32:05 AM »
Quote from: roblack on September 13, 2023, 11:55:36 PM
Hard to say. Looks a tad different from what I know to be g. mangostana; thinner leaves. But it is small, and could be a different cultivar.

If it grows faster than extremely slow, it is probably not g. mangostana.

That appears to be a large pot for a plant that size. Mangosteen have sensitive roots, too big of a pot can be a problem. Tall and thin pots are probably best, especially when young. Tap root is where its at.

Yeah, it looks a little more like a brasilensis to me but they're really similar small; most of the larger purple mangosteens I've seen have more more "ribbed" spade-shaped leaves iirc. May not be possible to tell till it gets larger?

The air pot he's using *should* be okay for developing taproot if it's a purple and the purple is anything like other garcinia in initial habit (I've used them for achacha, lemon drop, madruno, imbe, also seashore and gummi gutta before the cold got them). That's what they were originally designed for, managing trees with aggressive taproots when small (eucalyptus specifically, I think, although they don't work for everything like that in my admittedly limited experience). It looks happy enough, whatever it is. I've only grown purple mangosteen twice though, briefly, and both times it was taking a seedling off somebody's hands and sending it to a climate where it would possibly not die in the winter.

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Wildlands' Eugenia spp. 'Orange' fruited
« on: September 14, 2023, 03:09:33 AM »
Ah, that's a good-lookin' fruit.

Quote from: nattyfroootz on August 10, 2023, 11:39:16 PM
Awesome! It really is one of the most delicious Eugenias I've had so far. 
Mine are in full sun in Santa Cruz, California, so definitely not quite what people might get in Texas or Florida.  The plant these seedlings came from got shaded out by an Oak and really didn't seem to like it. Just pruned up the Oak so hoping to see it boost up again.

After having moved from the Bay Area to SoCal to Phoenix, "full sun" doesn't mean the same thing farther south and there's a bunch of plants I've found which really needed full blasting sun in the Bay Area to thrive but need at least a few years of summer shade some places elsewhere if not permanent dappled shade. EDIT: I've heard CORGS do pretty well in the south central valley tho.

Fwiw as a data point for anybody in this thread, 2/3 of my baby CORGS (some orange, red and one of the two garnets I got from Kevin) survived the Phoenix metro summer in part shade and even put on some new growth. I think they'd be doing better in a more temperate climate and I don't know if they'll set fruit well eventually, though. We'll see.

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Phoenix End of Summer Outdoor Jabo Report
« on: September 13, 2023, 11:42:35 PM »
Quote from: hammer524 on September 13, 2023, 07:02:48 PM
What part of the valley are you in? Im a few miles south of the biltmore?

Over in east technically, right in the middle of that Tempe/Mesa/Chandler/Gilbert tangle. Not too far from the Golfland.

It's actually a few degrees hotter in our neighborhood thanks to all the bare concrete to the point that for the last few years at least we haven't dipped below 35 and stays hotter summer nights, and I've had to treat things differently then people I know out in South or North or QC.

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