The Tropical Fruit Forum

Thanks gang, these are helpful data points, my gut reaction was part shade as well although I think I need something closer to 30% (aka "thinned moringa/ pomegranate") or full morning sun since at 50% right now it's noticeably bending towards the southwest. It survived the 115s though which is the hard part in any shade.

I recently saw a fruiting lucuma here on the central coast which was living in mostly shade of mac nuts and a white sapote, was producing very nicely. I would be looking for a part shade area in AZ. I just can't see one tolerating full sun 100f+ and low humidity.

I did plant a green sapote in full sun at my office, but it's less than 1 mile from the ocean so it's pretty moderate. It hasn't even blinked and is growing nicely. 1 gallon size. I'll get a photo of it this week if I remember to.

I envy that marine layer.

Mine actually seems to be able to take full sun most of the day at just about 99-101 (the wind knocked the shade fabric off for a couple of days before I noticed). It's actually doing better than my macnut seedlings. But unless it's a serious mutant I don't see how it manages 115+ for a week in all-day sun like we get in July. Sometimes they surprise me though.

RE autocarpus, anyone have experience knowing how more established kwai muk (Artocarpus hypargyraeus) do in the 40s? Mine had some leaf damage and I had to pull them inside last year in the low-40s but they were very small, I'm trying to decide if I should try planting some out near the brick wall this year, or letting them stay in pots another year to get some mass.

I'm actively working on trying to get colder-hardy mamoncillo; I had two mamoncillo out of fifteen or so last year that survived with only a little leaf damage all mesa winter with brief drops into the low 40s, but they were all on a stone patio and got the radiant heat from underneath. Y'all northern folk need to bring back fruit walls: https://99percentinvisible.org/article/fruit-walls-before-greenhouses-walled-gardens-created-urban-micro-climates/

Same thing happened to my seedlings but due to the heat stress ironically. A year's worth of growth died during the July/August heat wave and they regrew from the roots, after making it through last year's summer fine in the same conditions.

Hard to say. Looks a tad different from what I know to be g. mangostana; thinner leaves. But it is small, and could be a different cultivar.

If it grows faster than extremely slow, it is probably not g. mangostana.

That appears to be a large pot for a plant that size. Mangosteen have sensitive roots, too big of a pot can be a problem. Tall and thin pots are probably best, especially when young. Tap root is where its at.

Yeah, it looks a little more like a brasilensis to me but they're really similar small; most of the larger purple mangosteens I've seen have more more "ribbed" spade-shaped leaves iirc. May not be possible to tell till it gets larger?

The air pot he's using *should* be okay for developing taproot if it's a purple and the purple is anything like other garcinia in initial habit (I've used them for achacha, lemon drop, madruno, imbe, also seashore and gummi gutta before the cold got them). That's what they were originally designed for, managing trees with aggressive taproots when small (eucalyptus specifically, I think, although they don't work for everything like that in my admittedly limited experience). It looks happy enough, whatever it is. I've only grown purple mangosteen twice though, briefly, and both times it was taking a seedling off somebody's hands and sending it to a climate where it would possibly not die in the winter.

What part of the valley are you in? Im a few miles south of the biltmore?

Over in east technically, right in the middle of that Tempe/Mesa/Chandler/Gilbert tangle. Not too far from the Golfland.

It's actually a few degrees hotter in our neighborhood thanks to all the bare concrete to the point that for the last few years at least we haven't dipped below 35 and stays hotter summer nights, and I've had to treat things differently then people I know out in South or North or QC.

Hey all, so despite the absolutely brutal heat this summer (we had a record-breaking 31 straight days above 110, smashing the previous record of 18 days), I persisted in an experiment to see how various potted jaboticaba (some of them barely 8-12 months old) would handle the summer heat. Please note that I am not an expert (those of you who ARE experts already know that), I'm relatively new to growing plinia and that I probably could have done even better if I had been able to focus entirely on these guys and not have to spread time over the other plants.

All plants were initially acclimated in May-June (100+ temps) in full shade and, if showing no signs of stress, were migrated to 30%-50% dappled shade. All plants were on drip irrigation of twice-daily 15-20 minutes drip (this was a little high but I was trying to be on the safer side), with our crappy crappy hard city water. Feeding was more inconsistent than I would have liked; I used to a combination of various fertilizers but mostly either Tony's Magic Mix or 420 Rejuvenate along with worm casings plus the occasional worm compost tea from the local worm farm. They received two foilar feeds over four months. I also tried out a local product from the worm farm made of diluted fermented soldier fly larvae, which sounds gross but gave a massive benefit to some other plants in terms of heat tolerance (was game-changing for getting things established this year). Almost everything was in a 50/50 peat/pearlite mix. TLDR: They got some food, they got copious daily crappy salty water.

Anyway, on to the Jabo pictures taken today.  The stuff that did better:

Otto Anderson:

These handled the heat better than almost any other variety except for the INTA (and maybe the AxP, needs more testing). They pushed slow new growth through the heat, didn't defoliate, and despite the usual salt burn on old leaves didn't show a huge reaction to the tap water.

INTA:

My surviving seedling from five seeds I got from Marcos and holy crap did this one ever love the heat. It had really struggled inside (in the picture, that nub of growth off to the right was 8 months of pre-summer growth) but as soon as it was outside it took off like a rocket and kept growing through the major heat. I'm going to have to keep an eye on this one when it gets cold to see if it's hardy to all seasons or just tropical.

Sabaras:

The sabaras just kind of plugged along and then started doing well after it cooled off to the mid-100s. They put on some decent growth in the less-hot periods, didn't defoliate or burn much, they were troopers. Interestingly, they did better with our water when it was stupid hot than they did indoors in the cool for some reason (something that was also true for the INTA).

Frankie's Dwarf (sabara/red-descendant probably from Frankie's nursery in Oahu):

I got these from Shiloh last year and, despite being somewhat slow growing inside, they managed to outpace some of the reds in the heat on account of not defoliating. These guys are little tanks.

AxP (white/red cross from Hawaii):

These initially went dormant in the heat (no new growth but didn't lose any foilage either) but have since pushed new growth once the temps wound down below consistent 110s. I think these may be good candidates for heat like the the otto andersons and sabaras/frankies but we'll see. They certainly are doing better than the white jaboticaba.

Red Hybrids:

Almost every small red hybrid did the same thing when exposed to the high temps: initially pushed new growth, then dropped most or all of their leaves, then slowly and painfully recovered and pushed more growth over the next month or two. They've all mostly recovered but some of them look ratty as hell. The larger, older red hybrids took it better; I know from experience that the bigger ones (1-2+ feet tall) do okay out here in the heat in shade but this was my first time trying a bunch of them at once.

Taiwan varieties (T11, T13):

These have been slow growers inside and out, but are actually doing better outside with less signs of salt stress on the new growth. I think these have the potential to do well here given that they were so young and yet had no leaf loss/ major stress.

Honey Drip:

I only had one of these, but the one that I had, did well. Took the heat okay, put on some growth in the cooler days, didn't defoliate.


Stuff that did not so well:

Whites:

Whites took the heat fine BUT they hate our salty water something fierce so basically showed neither growth nor defoliation and just kind of sat there looking sad all summer, except for one that died from what I think was salt accumulation and not the heat specifically. I think if I had a better water source for these they would do just fine in the heat. Whitex crosses seem to do better (see AxP, Taiwanese varieties). Also, they may still adapt.

Campo Ramon:

I only had one that I moved outside, so it may not be a good test, but the Campo Ramon didn't last long in the 110+ before I had to move it back inside (defoliated and did not push new growth, etc.) However as soon as it was back inside it flushed new growth, so I may try again when it is larger and has a bigger rootball.

Grimals:

Grimals all threw a fit when moved into the heat. I'm not actually sure if this was the heat or just what grimals do in response to LITERALLY ANY CHANGE in their environment, but almost all of them lost some number of leaves and put on no or minimal growth, and one died. However, instead of moving them back inside like my single campo ramon, I moved them into full shade on the north side of the house surrounded by potted hibiscus (coolest place in the yard) and they survived and started flushing new growth once it cooled down.

Red Lantern:

This was inconclusive since I only had one of these and it was the only thing I didn't personally start from seed (I got this one from Bellamy's a while back); it hasn't been super happy inside but started to perk up outside in the 90-104 range but struggled past 110 or so. I moved it back inside through the worst of the summer and have since put it back outside; we'll see how it does.




Stuff that either up and died or almost did so:

Restinga.

This was a bit of a bummer, but almost all of the restinga tested completely defoliated and (unlike the reds) did not recover. I moved two back inside and they are slowly putting out a few leaves of new growth on the main stem but may still be goners. If they survive they might just be houseplants again, we'll see.

Conclusions: Vigor matters but not as much as ancestry; the reds were far and away more vigorous (and recovered from initial defoliation relatively rapidly in most cases) but some varieties were clearly more heat-resistant from the get-go. If I were trying to grow a less-crazy amount of these trees I would probably focus on the otto andersons, sabara derivatives and reds; I'd also try and get them up to a foot or so before moving them into the 105+ hellhole. Suprisingly (and happily) almost every variety except for the white jaboticaba got used to the salty garbage hose water when they absolutely had to to survive. They're still showing some signs of salt burn depending on the variety but also still pushing new growth.

Also, what kills and damages these guys is usually not the high day temps as long as they have some shade, but the unrelenting night temperatures above 95+. They can take high day temps if the nights allow them to recover. The day temps have continued to be 105+ on and off for weeks, but the night temperatures cooled back down a tiny amount, and everything started pushing more growth again. Also I think they would have done better if the pots were on grass instead of patio/pool deck due to less reflected heat but I had what space I had.

For my next dumb trick, I'm going to try to grow and fruit some in the ground under a moringa canopy. I'll also be testing yellows, vexators, peruviana and a couple of others I started over the last six months. I may try out some simple hydroponic setups next year as well.

Also, if anyone is interested in another write-up, I can do a follow-up about survival for other eugenias/plinias/myrciara (Rainforest plum did well in part shade, cambuca did okay, mulchi did not enjoy the heat at all, etc.)

Hey all, so I got a bunch of vexators started this spring and they're doing fantastic overall, WAY healthier (less salt/ph sensitive) all around than most of the true jaboticaba I have, but I'm wondering how they stack up cold-wise. Slightly larger plinia and eugenia seem to do fine out here in the winter with some slight cold protection (they just go part dormant and get the red leaves) but I don't have experience yet with vexators.

I'll probably keep these guys inside while they're little, assuming we ever actually get winter out here in Phoenix, but anybody with any big ones know how they compare to say red hybrid jaboticaba when it comes to cold?

Could be, they are native to Chilean mountains were humidity is lower because of the elevation and cooler temps.

Not sure if I have it in me to hit the reset button and invest another three or four years to get edible berries when I can just buy the powder in bulk online. As an experiment, it served it's purpose.

As for the seaberry tangent, most of those didn't make it either. Our Vegas sun is just too brutal for full contact sun all day. However, three of them are still hanging on. Titan died all the way down to the base and has one tiny offshoot that's sprouted and is growing. Sunny is ratty looking, but still fully alive with some foliage and some new growth is starting to poke out with our cooler temps. Tatiana, which remained in a pot in my backyard with a good amount of shade, is doing just fine. Eva, the Male, Golden Sweet, Orange Glow, and Sirola all bit the dust. So, lesson learned from these, full sun doesn't mean full sun here.

Bummer on the Macqui, but good to know as an experiment for sure.

I had a couple of experimental sea berries die on me, my frugana survived (barely). I've currently got a bunch of seedlings going inside that I'm winnowing for growth, although the freaking mealy bugs love these things and it's a constant battle to keep them from being eaten inside the house. I'm going to try planting them out under a moringa dappled shade cover next year in the coolest part of the yard.

One of the local nurseries here has a giant sign that says "Full sun does not mean full sun in Phoenix" at the entrance, for the Californian transplants.

Feijoa (out of season I think in Cali but Sprouts has them periodically) and barbados cherry (including unripe) are pretty amazing in addition to the stuff mentioned so far.

I am not sure how well eugenias tolerate dry indoor air, but for sure they can be fruited in containers.  All my eugenias are in containers and are outside april through september and go in the greenhouse in winter

Notes from the 3% humidity mines: Most of the common varieties seem not to mind dry air indoors or out, although stipitata can get a little touchy. Pitomba and pitangatuba don't care. Most jaboticaba don't seem to care as long as the soil stays moist. I can't imagine any of them mind humid conditions either.

EDIT: I've actually had all of these growing inside just fine during winter when they were small, and some of them have moved back outside for the summer, so I know it's possible. Some of them prefer a lot of light though, and do better in the sun than grow lights ime. But they'll need light over winter.

Which varieties of prickly pear have the best tasting fruit? I've got a generic 'Opuntia Ficus Indica' from the big box store, but I'd like to also grow some higher quality named varieties, especially after reading on this forum that some of them can have banana or berry flavors. All of them that I've eaten so far (found wild in Texas or bought at Mexican grocers, they were all the common red-purple skin variety), just had a somewhat sweet, refreshing light melon flavor.
I've seen Fruitwood Nursery has a large selection, but they don't all have descriptions and the descriptions really don't give you much to go by, and I don't want to inadvertently get several that are extremely similar.
Many of their selections are part of the desert series, would those be likely to do well in southern Alabama, where's it's generally hot and humid, or are they more suited to arid regions?
Are there other vendors that carry particularly good varieties?

Re humidity: They grow all over florida apparently (https://florida.plantatlas.usf.edu/Genus.aspx?id=868), so they should manage Alabama. Keep them in the sunniest part of the yard and they should do fine. Shade can cause them to get catch bad fungal issues even out here in the desert, and also stunts their growth and fruit production. They want full sun all day every day.

Aside from the forum users here who periodically offer pads of various varieties, if you want better descriptions than Fruitwood, check out Planting Justice's selection: https://plantingjustice.org/product-category/cacti-and-succulents/prickly-pear-opuntia-species/ They periodically carry ones that have been selected as part of targeted breeding programs so are more likely not to taste like slightly dusty melons.

Most of the "wild" ones you've eaten or gotten from the store if they were red were probably Burbank Spineless, fwiw. That one went feral after cattle ranchers planted it all over Texas and north Mexico for cattle feed back in the day.

Although sometimes the store has weird stuff. Our local international grocer had some DARK purple ones recently from Mexico that tasted like beets. Not exactly most people's idea of a good time but it sure was interesting.

Just wanted to chime in that I'm very happy with the quality of seeds that achetadomestica has been providing. Some of the reds that I planted at the end of March are already nearly six inches tall, with the restinga and orange surinam not far behind. Great quality seeds.



Seriously, look at this monster, this thing has been sprouted for barely a month.

Holy moly, those things are *monsters*. Incredible.