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Messages - incubator01

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Citrus General Discussion / Re: repotting a young meyer in september?
« on: September 22, 2021, 02:47:26 AM »
Yeah i was indeed planning to soak it in a tub,/ bucket and gently removing the dirt with my fingers.
With bigger plants this won't work because the clay core is too dense.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: repotting a young meyer in september?
« on: September 21, 2021, 02:19:55 PM »
As a point of clarification citrus don't go dormant. Their growth does slow down, but not dormant. Over the years I have transplanted citrus during every time of the year.   About 95% of damage to a root system during transplanting is caused by the person doing the transplanting.  A careful, not rushed transplanting can be carried out at any time.

Well over here they call it "dormant" because our temperatures get a bit colder and they drink very little because there is much less sunlight and the days are shorter.
But anyway, it's true they do grow much slower :)
I'll try to be careful with the meyer, if the soil is loose enough I don't have to use a hose and give a gentle wash by hand instead, it's just that most citrus from italy are planted in very hard clay, they even admitted this had to be done for their climate, and is an annoyance when needing to change soil.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: sunburn from led lights?
« on: September 21, 2021, 02:15:21 PM »
I seriously doubt the slight damage to incubator's tree leaves was caused by LED lighting.  I agree the leaves show soluble salts damage from the fertilizer over supply.

And I too agree with your conclusion.
To try out I planted some kaffir lime seeds in the end of august, atm 2 seedlings are growing slowly but healthy and 2 are about to stick their heads out.
I did not feed them with anything at all yet, (so for one month now I watered with rain water without any kind of nutrients) and I used a soil of seeding soil mixed with some coco fiber.
They're doing very nice, good green leaves, tiny but healthy. and I put them under 14h of LED light, even placed a second one next to it to cover larger area, no problems at all.
With the kumquat seedlings and even with some adult citrus I admit I probably gave too much food and that caused this issue.

So I will wait with giving nutrients until they grow 3 pairs of true leaves and then I start with liquid fertilizer, but one that is on the weak side, because if I give a strong one right away I might kill them again.

Citrus General Discussion / repotting a young meyer in september?
« on: September 21, 2021, 08:34:35 AM »
So I am getting a meyer this week, grafted on carizzo rootstock.
I know the soil will contain heavy clay or dark moisture holding soil, thing is, it's already getting a bit colder and citrus are getting dormant here.
Can I still wash out the clay soil from the roots or is this too late in the year for such a stressful act, (its in a 14cm pot so it's still young) and replace the soil with proper draining soil? Or should I leave things until spring and water very little every 2 weeks?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: how to rescue heavily stressed citrus trees?
« on: September 09, 2021, 10:58:38 AM »
From reports that I have read by growers using a 50/50 Turface-MV and peat, and growers using the 5-1-1 mix are having success.  I presently have all my container trees growing in the 5-1-1 mix.  However, just yesterday I purchased a 50- lb. bag of Turface-MVP and will be planting a Ginger Lime in the 50/50 Turface/peat mix for evaluation.  I've hear good reports on that blend.

So did I here in this forum from other users, that is why I planted these kaffir limes in the 50/50 Turface and peat mix. For now they're still in shade and until they're not recovering I do not put them in the sun.
How many weeks does it usually take untill they recover from transplant shock?
Do note that I washed the clay off the roots with a hose, even though I saw no roots being damaged, the very fine roots might have been.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: how to rescue heavily stressed citrus trees?
« on: September 09, 2021, 02:33:29 AM »
Incubator like I wrote above, the damage you see in your twisted leaves, was done long ago when the flush was still new young tender leaves.  Now that they have  matured into firm dark green leaves, you do not have to worry about thrip damage.  You leaves will remain in their twisted present condition for the rest of their lives (citrus leaves have a life spay of 18 to 24 months).  However if the next flush is properly taken care of they will develop just fine.

As to leaves falling at the slightest touch, the problem is in the container

Well I'm clueless then.
I tried every soil mix of which this one seemed best, but if this one is also considered bad then I'm just dumping the next one in plain universal potting soil which seems to work well with my aunt...
I'm tired of trying to do the right thing and losing the fight over and over again.

When i flushed the roots, all clay was gone, so no obstruction is left. The roots looked healthy yellow/ golden.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: how to rescue heavily stressed citrus trees?
« on: September 08, 2021, 06:10:12 PM »
The problem is that even touching, spraying will cause some leaves to drop as well, even healthy looking ones.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: how to rescue heavily stressed citrus trees?
« on: September 08, 2021, 05:16:42 PM »
The tangled leaves certainly show symptoms of insect damage most likely done when they were young tender new leaves.  The damage was probably done by an insect called a thrip.  Thrip pierce the leaf surface and suck out the internal juices.  After the new leaves firm up thrips will not harm them much.  To keep young leaves from this harm, spray all new flushes with a horticultural oil/water solution (40 grams HO/gallon water) in the morning ,every two days.  Doing this the leaves grown into healthy firm foliage.  One could also use a soap solution or a neem solution,.

Well shortly after it was transplanted I did spray it with a neem + soap based product against insects, but only once. however it did not seem to help much.
As I said, the plant already looked in poor shape upon arrival but like with the pursha, the seller claims it'll be fine.
I find it a shame to pay 90 EUR for a plant that is unhealthy, they have all the equipment to keep them in good health and they did spray something on it but apparently too late.

All the leaves that fell off, both dried out and fresh ones had no insects on it though, and thrips are those tiny green bugs so I should have noticed them before because last year I saw them on my pepper plants.

The thing is that it's not just new leaves that fall off, bigger ones too. even 2 fruits fell off today :(

Citrus General Discussion / how to rescue heavily stressed citrus trees?
« on: September 08, 2021, 12:50:41 PM »
So in my previous topic I already mentioned oscar tintori sending me an overwatered pursha, by now it dropped most of its leaves but it's stable.
However their kaffir limes (one in a 20cm pot and one in a 30 cm pot) also had signs of overwatering but not as bad, however after repotting they got so stressed they dropped a lot of leaves and  some fruit and most of their leaves looked weird from the start, kinda like they were malformed.

I did the following when these arrived, unboxed, let them settle in hte shade for a few days, repotted in a half peat half turface soil mix which drains really well and is good aerated, then put it against a wall that has the morning sun only, so they get 6 hours of sun but not the warmer afternoon sun, just about untill 13:00h

however at first it was kinda cloudy anyway so they could easily get used to it. Despite not being hit by hot sun yet, they started dropping a lot of leaves, and I only watered them once until the water started dripping out (happened very soon so that was good), the soil is still moist enough, I fed them like  I was told to but something in these branches looks off, is it me or is this tree afflicted with dying branches? the roots looked fine though, when I washed them out they were light in color.
I know Italy has had a heat wave so I'm aware they must have been under a lot of stress there but I really wish I knew how I can prevent these from dying.
Currently we're having a very hot sunny day so I did put them in the shade because that would do a lot of damage. Misting them with rain water doesn't help in revitalizing the leaves either :(

Especially now that autumn is approaching, they'll become dormant in october/november but if they're not doing well this usually means they won't survive.

I'm kinda at a loss here.
The only plant that is doing extremely well and had no stress at all was the poncirus I ordered from them, didn't drop a single leaf at all and has beautiful branches :3

Citrus General Discussion / Re: reduced quality from purchased plants
« on: August 31, 2021, 03:31:54 AM »
It arrived in a rectangular cardboard box, the pot (30cm wide) was wrapped in plastic foil to preserve moisture in the soil, it arrived on time so shipping delays were not a contributing factor. It came out of the box this yellow, and had no broken branches.
It is in a shelter out of the wind, out of rain and out of sun, it was moderately watered in a well draining soil (mix of 50/50 peat based universal soil and turface) , the pot has additional drainage holes and feet for excellent water drainage, when watering it drips out already after 3 - 5 seconds. As tintori asked me to do I applied  fertilizer (liquid in this case, slow release once it every should stabilize). The liquid one is sunplant citrus which has no ballast salts.

But regardless they're trying to shove the responsibility in my shoes, and I don't like that.
Instead of receivigng this:

I now have this:

After a week and a half of arriving.

Their latest reply to this was:
"We saw your pictures. Pursha plants, with a little stress, can loose leaves and show signs of sufferings. In this case, transport and repotting can have brought to this situation but please let's wait a little. Prune the branches where needed and water when necessary.
In a short time you will see that plant will get better."

This is only valid for warm countries. As of now, Belgium's citrus will enter sleep mode soon, so no recovery is possible.
I'll do what he says but at this rate I've seen them dying over and over again.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: reduced quality from purchased plants
« on: August 30, 2021, 12:07:59 PM »
worst part is that most of the pursha's leaves are already turning completely yellow and are falling off in large numbers.
I contacted oscar tintori about this but they stick to their claim they shipped the plant in good health and that the plant will recover.
As i see it withering and dying every day I no longer believe this and am very disappointed in this response.
This is also the first time I was sold such a badly taken care of plant but it does no credit to their reputation.

The other 2 kaffir lime's are stable, they only lost a few leaves that were in bad condition but nothing to be worried about, transplant stress is normal but not like what the pursha is going through.

Citrus General Discussion / reduced quality from purchased plants
« on: August 26, 2021, 01:31:59 PM »
So recently I bought a new Pursha lime and a kaffir lime to replace my old ones, from oscar tintori. Since they usually deliver very nice plants I was dissappointed when I found the pursha in a box with the fruit that fell off , rotting with mold, the leaves curled inside and looking sad, yellowish too (from overwatering), they sprayed the plant with something white dusty because I could wipe it with my fingers from the leaves.
Suffice to say I hope this one makes it because I found a whool lice on it when unboxing and have been treating it.

Then a kaffir lime with a branch that can't hold it's own weight, leaves that look "melted", even found aphids on them one week later, also having leaves that looked yellow and readily came loose.

For them they probably think it's no problem and these plants will get through it but with my misfortune, they're currently planted in a nice mix of 50% universal peat based potting soil, 10% pumice and 40% turface. Drains wonderfully fast and is well aerated. But if a new plant already starts losing leaves when I get it within the first week I get worried :(
Pot size is correct, the pursha was purchased in a 30cm diameter pot and is now in a 40cm diameter pot, they confirmed to me this was no problem. The kaffir is a smaller plant (sold in 22cm diameter pot and repotted into a 30cm pot)
Both plants have light colored healthy looking roots, I washed them out completely to get rid of the clay and garden soil with the hose and their pot size they were sold in was definitely getting too small.
now that autumn is coming, they'll enter hibernation mode soon so that is why I am worried :(

PS: terracotta pots have elevation, I put some rubber feet under them and a mesh over the drainage hole so water can flow away freely.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: germinate seeds in coco coir
« on: August 17, 2021, 09:56:55 AM »
I do think I'm going to mix the coco fibers with seeding soil instead of using it pure, seems likethat may prove better.

But the youtube videos that mention rooting citrus cuttings in coco fiber/peat is much better, is that a true fact or is there something they forget to tell?
Because my cuttings take ages to root.
I use rooting hormones, a special rooting hormone mist spray, indirect sunlight, seeding soil atm and plastic foil to maintain moisture levels and of course a warm environment.
(sorry this second part should probably belong in a different topic but it's the last thing i swear :) )

Citrus General Discussion / Re: germinate seeds in coco coir
« on: August 16, 2021, 07:44:02 AM »
Personally I use 33 % coir and 67 % coarse sand for seed raising.

"And since it's poncirus I cannot add Ca, it doesn't tolerate it."
I'm not sure I would go as far as that, I don't think it's anything like an acid loving plant. I think it can handle normal pH range.

It's not about the pH , its more that poncirus itself cannot tolerate calcium, I found this on an article and was told before by other citrus growers. I could kill the poncirus by adding calcium frequently.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: germinate seeds in coco coir
« on: August 16, 2021, 04:42:29 AM »
hmm, well I want to grow poncirus rootstock seeds and since i read an article coco peat was used more for faster seed growing, i though why not.
But by the sound of it it doesn't seem to be such a wise idea, so maybe i'll do part of them with that and part of them with traditional seeding soil.
I was going to use fine coco peat that is compressed into large bricks that I have to soak in water and end up with 10 liter of coco peat or so.
I do know this medium is great for rooting citrus cuttings so that's why it peaked my interest for seedlings too.
And since it's poncirus I cannot add Ca, it doesn't tolerate it.

Citrus General Discussion / germinate seeds in coco coir
« on: August 13, 2021, 10:52:52 AM »
Since coco coir (or coco peat) is used frequently for rooting citrus cuttings, I was wondering if this medium can be used as well to germinate citrus seeds, instead of using traditional seeding soil. The reason I would like to switch is because apparently the coco peat allows for much better root development, aeration etc though once the seedling is developed enough I will repot it in a different mix, I just wanted to know if it is good for germinating seedlings and growing them there the first few (2 - 3) months.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: sunburn from led lights?
« on: August 11, 2021, 12:47:37 PM »
Ok, thanks.
I'll stop giving it for a while then until they're showing signs of deficiency.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: sunburn from led lights?
« on: August 11, 2021, 03:29:50 AM »
As soon as I had 3 inches of root.  Kumquats grow so slowly that it takes too long to get through the damp-off susceptible stages and are killed
ok, thanks, mine aren't that far yet, I'd say the roots are maybe almost 1 inch atm.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: sunburn from led lights?
« on: August 10, 2021, 01:22:02 PM »
Nagami and Meiwa kumquat seedlings are very difficult for the first 30cm of growth.  I gave mine 16 hours from a 23 watt daylight CFL set 4 inches from the top leaves inside a bright white chamber.  I lifted the plant so that a half inch of root was showing to protect it from damp-off disease.  I use Miracle Gro 24-8-16. with 6 plants in a 1/3 liter pot till they were 15cm-20cm tall.

Wow, that's pretty strong nutrition, the liquid fertiliser (sunplant citrus) I use has an NPK 11-3-6 , the slow release I use has an NPK of 16-7-15,
My seedlings right now are about 3 weeks old, I read I should repot them once they have about 4 leaves but at what age did you lift this root?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: sunburn from led lights?
« on: August 10, 2021, 08:05:44 AM »
Itís only pumping 25 watts which is not very much right now. Iím using a 300 watt LED and I havenít had any problems yet. Could it be damage from soluble salts?

Perhaps, I have no idea, that's why I put it up here, but maybe the nutrition I added has those.
Guess they're too young for that and I'll have to stick with root booster only then for now.

Citrus General Discussion / sunburn from led lights?
« on: August 09, 2021, 05:04:19 PM »
I am trying to identify weather my 3 nagami kumquat seedlings are having sunburn from being 10 - 12h / day under a small LED growlight or if this is from something else.
They are not getting direct sunlight, however they are located near a window made of milk glass, so its completely blurred and milky white, the sunlight is heavily filtered.
The LED light I use is PARUS LED grow light SOL Series (PGL-E18) specs found in english here:

I keep the plants definitely more than 20cm away from the light, when turning the light off at night I spray the plants with a foliar spray sometimes, rainwater other times to maintain moisture levels.
I water with rain water every 2 - 3 days a little bit because these things have tiny roots , the rain water is mixed with an auxine based root booster and once a week I add liquid fertilizer for citrus (planfor citrus , qualifies in most areas)
They're planted in seeding soil that drains very well and also dries out nicely inside.
However the first 3 weeks I had no sign of these burn marks, only since today did I notice it.
Thing is that this happens to every citrus seedling I tried so far, tomato or chili pepper seedlings do not have this problem.
Does anyone have a clue as to what is going on?
Attached are images of each plant.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: new growth drop
« on: August 09, 2021, 03:33:15 AM »
Iíve had some new buds sprouting out of a new scion die off too, and it seems that the meiwa kumquat likes to do this more than my other grafted varieties. Another bud growing out again later though. I think kumquats are fussy; I have had more difficulty getting their cuttings, seedlings, grafts to grow than any other variety. Maybe try a horizontal cleft graft. I think I will. I did this with sour orange on PT this year and itís growing faster than my vertical cleft graft of same variety.

Well this was a purchased plant so I didn't graft it, it definitely was not the cleft graft they used though but other than that the plant is in good health, just like brian said, it's been doing nothing besides that shoot for a while, so I don't expect new growth until next year provided I can get it to survive winter (the rootstock needs much protection)

Citrus General Discussion / Re: new growth drop
« on: August 08, 2021, 03:08:52 PM »
Temperature of 23 C (73F) will not bother citrus. The temperature of 35C  (95F) will slow/stop tree growth, but will not do damage otherwise.

Ok, thanks, that's good to know.
Is there any way to "stimulate" this plant into growing new main branches or will this one single branch become a longer part of the main trunk in the future?
I do have to mention the little bud was perfectly horizontal, as in it made me think of the opposite of a watershoot (which is vertical), so maybe that's why it's dropped?

Citrus General Discussion / new growth drop
« on: August 08, 2021, 02:19:09 PM »
So I have a kumquat in good condition, nice green leaves, that recovered from root problems a few months ago. Since the new growth is looking very healthy I was hoping one day the scion would grow a new second main branch. Eventually it did, I noticed a tiny new bud growing at the bottom, well above the graft union (yes, I was very sure) but after a week just gently touching it made it fall off. Thing is, it's not from overwatering as it's planted in the full soil and in greenhouse, nor is it showing signs of overwatering ( no yellow leaves and no other leaves are dropping either).

I'm wondering if a sudden temperature increase from the sun suddenly being revealed after a few days clouds + rain and my greenhouse windows being at minimal opening to avoid excessive rain from entering (and the 80Km/h winds from destroying everything) may have caused this, even though it has a shade cloth against the window it's located near.
I really thought new growth should be more resistant, how are citrus in warm climates otherwise be able to grow? O.o (temperature in greenhouse was with clouds 23įC and without clouds 35įC, I have no option for ventilation, I try to open / close windows as timely as possible and yes I know there are automated windows systems, I just didn't take them)

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: rootstock vs scion cold hardiness
« on: July 17, 2021, 12:24:18 PM »
well since I was already planning on wrapping the entire tree in frostcloth layers despite it being in a semi sheltered place in the winter, I shouldn't be too worried, but since the scion part is so big (it's a 2m high tree) I thought of wrapping only one layer for the scion part and several layers for the rootstock and graft union, provided that the scion would be able to survive a few degrees celcius colder
Worst case I would only loose the top branches, since they're closest to the roof. The container is on an elevated platform with wheels so the ground temperature will prove no problem either.

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