The Tropical Fruit Forum

Yeah I kinda regret my first grumichama I bought from Champa. Damn thing is just falling over on itself. I'm seriously about to just hack it right down to where it can stand up straight. My second one was thicker and stronger but is building a lot of leaf this year and is also falling over (it tried to flower and I saw signs but none came out).

I take caution especially when some fertilizers have human sewage sludge and I also heard bagged limestone can be adulterated. Even lawn clippings can concentrate pesticides in mulch. Some things are inevitable like naturally radioactive sediment rock here but I won’t add a product I know is suspicious I even carbon filter the rain water to irrigate

Wow that is commitment. If you are on that level of caring about toxicity, well, I guess you should avoid it - and probably all other inorganic fertilizers while you're at it.

If ants farm it, you know it ain't good. Pick them off

Quote from: socalbalcony on May 31, 2021, 01:22:25 AM

I agree heavily with most of what you've said, I do keep wondering though..

What about when you have plenty lush-ness/branches/vigorous growth etc even on quite mature plants but they seem to refuse to flower/fruit? Curious as to what is your counter to that?

Variety?  Temps?  Too much N?  Some plants like citrus (and cannabis) flower based on photoperiod and lower temps.

At this stage I tried everything for the pitangas in question and just could not get them to flower. They would flower meekly 3-4x a year but hold no fruit, the flowers were just too delicate and wouldn't hold, but the number of them was really low. We're talking like 2 flowers per session.

The interesting part was that one of them when I bought it was absolutely loaded with flowers and fruit so I know it has it in it... Just not for me ha. My only other thought is that they may only heavily flower once rootbound.

Quote from: K-Rimes on May 29, 2021, 11:49:47 AM

Indeed, I have fallen for it - but one starts to wonder what's wrong when plants don't flower / fruit for them and are much larger than other comparable plants. Most of the time I just use chicken manure and a standard osmocote, but this year I changed it up more or less out of desperation.

Same with all the nonsense coming from a lot of the "organic and natural" industry.  Most of it's BS targeted to folks' lifestyles and mindsets.  These vendors could care less about plant nutrition. Some don't have a clue witness the Espoma Citrus Tone label.  It's laughable.

Roots is where it starts, period.  if you've seen my pix of the RootBuilder "pots" you know that's true.

High P or K foods don't promote flowering or fruiting.  Lots of healthy green foliage does.  Sounds likes something is not quite tuned right in your cultural activities.

If you're really anal about this buy one of those expensive chlorophyll meters that reads leaf tissue chlorophyll counts.

Good info for sure. I did heavily prune the non-producers last year and the plants are going to be much better at absorbing light. They were busy bushes and now they're nice halo top trees more or less. Just gonna cross my fingers and hope it works!

All high quality inorganic fertilizers (Peters, Osmocote, Dyna-Gro and others) contain a good micros package. If it aint broke, don't fix it as too much of a good thing can work against you if you go overboard.  Research the concept of nutrient antagonism where too much of one element induces a deficiency of one or more elements.  Good example is using high P foods which can induce micros deficiencies.  I got off the high P teat many years ago and use a balanced low P food like a 15-9-12.  If my faves need a high N hit then I resort to something like Peters High Performance 25-5-15. Has an excellent micros package.
 
Having said that there is no better micros supplement than Keyplex 350DP, soil drench or added to a foliar spray.

Interesting to hear you got off high P - I've been turning to it to try to induce flowering on a lot of trees I have with not much luck. 12-24-12. Seems it burnt some stuff in funny ways that I haven't seen before. You may be on to something but I can't help but think if these plants aren't flowering at all (and are definitely mature enough to) that I need to do *something* different.

Thank you both for your insights. Yes, this is about adding a dedicated micronutrient regiment. I thought that chelated micronutrients were superior to regular micros due to the added protection in the soil. Of course, I could be completely wrong as well!

Got ya, thought it was a spray - aka foliar.

Anyhow, I have been experimenting with a micronutrient liquid fertilizers from General Hydroponics that is formulated for hard water, which mine is as it's from a well - and is also 8.3-8.4ph so your water actually sounds kinda nice in comparision.

It has made an absolutely insane difference to my blueberries which obviously were lacking something nutritionally. They languished for the last 2.5 years or something and are now totally emerald green, thick leafed, and production / flavor was awesome. It was the only nutrition I gave them other than top dressing espoma soil acidifier and using phosphoric acid to get the PH right.

I also used it on jaboticaba, mangoes, etc as a drench and it did make some improvement but I can't say that it was really the sauce. I was also using slow release fertilizers, chicken manures and so on and they all performed nominally "normal" regardless of using the micros.

Tough to say on my end, but I will continue using it on the bluebs

Good to hear, Kevin.

Sure would be nice if the 'search' function on their website at least acknowledged 'Pitomba' as part of their inventory - even if it happens to be out of stock.

Then again, if they did they might already be sold out this late into spring.

Ever dealt with their other locations? I understand that Anaheim at least is a separate entity.
Not sure about Rosemead.

It's at the bottom in their plant list. They had maybe 8-10 left when I scooped my second one from them. I have been to both locations, but I think the LA one is better. None of the nurseries in LA are very good at updating their stock, Champa's "Special" ended March 31st.

They have actually a lot of really nice plants at the LA Mimosa. There were some large flowering / fruit set 15 gallon grumichamas that were really nice. Champa's are all stupid long and leggy compared and I sort of regret buying them in a way. They were super cheap. Other stuff they have, like jaboticaba, are REALLY expensive compared to Champa. That said, I found some grimals and one branca vinho 5 gallon when I was there last and thought they were fairly priced.

Kind of a weird market.

My black star made nominally normal leaves last year and now they are XXXL. I think it depends on fertilizers or something.

K-Rimes, thanks so much for all the information! I am really starting to love this fruit. It sucks some of the seedlings aren’t bearing fruit for you or they’re shy bearers.

Simon

I totally switched up my fertilizer regimen this year going from chicken manure and MiracleGro from Costco (which is the standard 12-4-8) to using Schultz Slow Release 12-24-12 without chicken manure or anything else. My thoughts are I just totally had the nutrition wrong last year and that's why I got no fruit. Both of those that don't produce are in 30 gallon fabric pots which I kind of hmmm and hah about. Not sure they're really all that. The soil is also muck in both of the biggest ones cause of worms. Kinda want to leave them in it for extra stress...

It also seems they REALLY turn up fruit production when they get rootbound. My most productive vermillion was brutally rootbound last year in one of those plastic fake half barrels from HD and gave us lots of fruit. I up potted to 25g so it's going to take a while.

If you wrap the ball with Saran Wrap, it will trap the heat and the moisture may steam the roots or cambium. If you wrap in Saran Wrap, it may be wise to cover it with an outside layer of foil as well, shiny side out. This will reflect the sunlight.

There’s lots of minor details to consider whenever you air layer, especially with these balls. The black color heats up in the sun and will increase the temp of the soil in the ball and increase the rate of root growth but at a specific temperature, the heat may be too much and actually kill the roots.

In early Spring, these balls are great without foil but once temps go up, foil will probably be required.

These trees are relatively easy to maintain at a reasonable height and width. I’m just starting to learn about this fruit and there’s still a lot I don’t know.

Does anyone know if Surinam Cherries grow true to seed or similar to seed? Are there clones in the seeds if you get more than one seed in a fruit?

Simon

I read that about 70% of the time they are true to seed, but this is applicable thus far only to color - ie, planting black fruit seeds = black fruit seedlings 7/10 times. I don't often get double seeds, but I spit them in the garden mostly and haven't been re-seeding much. I had one seedling pop up in the weirdest place and it survived winter which really impressed me.

Pitanga is for real one of the biggest parts of my collection and I adore the fruit. My gf and I are trying to make a pitanga pie this year, but I kind of think it's a waste since the fruit is so good out of hand. I usually eat them every day during the season and it's my favorite stop on my garden walk.

Marcos Gugliemetti has some really unique ones that I grew from seed that have totally different leaf shape than the US ones I've grown from seed. They are suuuuper long leafed and very pointy at the tips and grow pure red growth, very aesthetic. I can't wait to try the fruit from those seedlings.

Of note of the varieties I have: one red unknown seedling, 10' tall, never had fruit from it! Lolita seedling, 6' tall, no fruit yet, I gave up and grafted my productive selected vermillion on it, Black Star is also a shy producer at 10' tall. It is really lanky and poorly built and shares a pot with a strawberry guava which I think is absolutely strangling it. I'm probably going to saw the pot in half and try to split them.

The issue you'll run up against is not the ripening of the fruit, but the freezing off of the flowers. Mine flowered in February or something and even in 9b was on the edge of having the flowers get burnt off - some did. I have fruit sets now and it looks like they'll be ready in maybe about 6 weeks.

I think mango season is just kinda firing up in FL? - Any chance someone in FL could ship some selected varieties to Oregon? It would be much appreciated.