Anyone Using Compost Tea?

[ggpalms]

In the last two years, I have started to slowly make the transition from using synthetic Fertilizers/Pesticides etc towards organic methods.

Compost teas are very powerful when made correctly and used to help trees, lawns, vegetables grow. They also help maintain balance and control diseases.

Any comments pro or con?

Jason "Pepe"
Pepe's Fruit Trees

[nullzero]

In the last two years, I have started to slowly make the transition from using synthetic Fertilizers/Pesticides etc towards organic methods.

Compost teas are very powerful when made correctly and used to help trees, lawns, vegetables grow. They also help maintain balance and control diseases.

Any comments pro or con?

Jason "Pepe"
Pepe's Fruit Trees

I use it, the plants seem to like it a lot. I also mix in beneficial microbes and sea kelp powder with water to fertilize the plants.

[behlgarden]

I have used it in my tomato and vegetable plants. It was late in the season so I cant speak for results. Most important thing for Compost tea to benefit is to have a lot of organic matter. If you have clay/sand mix and not enough organic matter, the micro organisms will die.  I would recommend to compost heavily first, then treat with compost tea if you want.

Better yet, get those red wrigglers earthworms and throw them into your plants that are heavily composted. these worms would do wonders. No ferts required. I can get 1000 of these red wrigglers for $20. I am going to do it to my Cherimoya and other fruit trees. Let them thrive!

[nullzero]

I have used it in my tomato and vegetable plants. It was late in the season so I cant speak for results. Most important thing for Compost tea to benefit is to have a lot of organic matter. If you have clay/sand mix and not enough organic matter, the micro organisms will die.  I would recommend to compost heavily first, then treat with compost tea if you want.

Better yet, get those red wrigglers earthworms and throw them into your plants that are heavily composted. these worms would do wonders. No ferts required. I can get 1000 of these red wrigglers for $20. I am going to do it to my Cherimoya and other fruit trees. Let them thrive!

Should try out vermicomposting, there is a really informative pdf here; http://www.allthingsorganic.com/pdf/Vermiculture_FarmersManual_gm.pdf

I also found these great resources;
http://www.vermicomposters.com/
http://www.wormdigest.org/
http://journeytoforever.org/compost_worm.html

[happyisland]

I use Envirocycles for home composting, and they catch compost tea. I don't use it on mango trees though, since I'm worried about causing them to grow vegetatively rather than fruit. Does anyone know the approximate nutritional breakdown of compost and compost tea on the N-P-K scale?

[zands]

In the last two years, I have started to slowly make the transition from using synthetic Fertilizers/Pesticides etc towards organic methods.

Compost teas are very powerful when made correctly and used to help trees, lawns, vegetables grow. They also help maintain balance and control diseases.

Any comments pro or con?

Jason "Pepe"
Pepe's Fruit Trees

Why not just add compost? My guess is compost tea is more suitable for clay soils. Not fast draining sandy soils. I have never used it

[zands]

I use Envirocycles for home composting, and they catch compost tea. I don't use it on mango trees though, since I'm worried about causing them to grow vegetatively rather than fruit. Does anyone know the approximate nutritional breakdown of compost and compost tea on the N-P-K scale?

I have seen bags of composted cow manure with number 1-0-0 on the NPK and that is animal manure. Check out the NPK on this stuff.

.5-.5-.5

[ggpalms]

Okay so now I opened up an interesting can of worms. Worms, hey that was quite appropriate. So what's the verdict is it all a bunch of BS or the real deal?

Compost tea can be the best thing or the worst thing you could use on your plants. This topic can often times become quite contoverisial. Compost tea that is unstable can ferment and contain alcohol and or pathogens.

Do you drench the soil or apply as a foliar spray? Do you believe it helps the plants grow better than synthetics and does it control diseases?

Be back in a bit, gotta feed the red wigglers.

Jason "Pepe"
Pepe's Fruit Trees

[jason (palo alto)]

Compost tea is bunk:
Compost tea @ Garden Professors
and another post
There is a danger of E. coli with compost tea
Use compost instead and other organic amendments.

[forumfool]

That trial in Mexico with the control plants and compost plants was pretty convincing to me (was the first of NullZeros links)....

[stressbaby]

The problem with adding compost to containers is the particle size.  Compost has VERY small particle size and tends to raise the water table in the containers...not good.  For a short period of time I added compost to my potting mix and I had stinky sludge in the bottom of the containers.

[nullzero]

The problem with adding compost to containers is the particle size.  Compost has VERY small particle size and tends to raise the water table in the containers...not good.  For a short period of time I added compost to my potting mix and I had stinky sludge in the bottom of the containers.

True, I mainly use liquid compost for the containers top dressing the containers ever so often with a little compost. Soil mix I use is very porous though with good amounts of perlite and pine bark.

[ggpalms]

Compost tea is bunk:
Compost tea @ Garden Professors
and another post
There is a danger of E. coli with compost tea
Use compost instead and other organic amendments.

Well I am not ready to say that it is bunk!

I respect the information and reputation of Dr. Elaine Ingham and all the research she has conducted on the topic of soil biology. My understanding is that compost tea is beneficial if properly formulated.

I have been experimenting with some brews and find them valuable as foliar treatments.   

Here is a link to check out: http://oregonfoodweb.com/soil-biology/in-depth.html

I am not advocating blending heavy organic soil blends for container growing. I am talking about spraying or drenching soil either in containers or in ground.

Being open minded is a good thing. We need more information and we need to learn from our own experiences. 

Jason "Pepe"
Pepe's Fruit Trees

[Guanabanus]

I use lots of compost on the soil. 

I have never used compost tea, but I can imagine that it would have its uses for foliar sprays. 

What could be gained from using compost tea on the ground versus spreading compost and watering it in is beyond me, unless you only have a few handfuls of compost and need to spread it really thin.

[nullzero]

I use lots of compost on the soil. 

I have never used compost tea, but I can imagine that it would have its uses for foliar sprays. 

What could be gained from using compost tea on the ground versus spreading compost and watering it in is beyond me, unless you only have a few handfuls of compost and need to spread it really thin.

Compost tea works better for containers, the compost just seems to clog up the containers like others have mentioned when used in larger amounts.

[lkailburn]

Haven't had any experience with compost teas, though I usually do see this kind of back and forth, some agree some don't. What i have had experience with is vermicomposting. Ashley and I keep two worm bins in the house(we live in a townhouse) and i swear the plants absolutely love the stuff. We mix it into potting mix when repotting things, or if we have some extra we just top dress and water it in. Usually we do end up finding a few straggler worms still living in the container months later. But looking back now to when we have used it i feel that most if not all plants seemed greener and healthier for a time after applying.  No set amount, just a handful or so or whatever we have.
Worms are almost care free, will take what you give them, zero smell etc. In fact i bet if i had some one try and search the house they would never even recognize the bins as being "worm bins". Only trouble we have is our worms don't seem to eat as fast as others say is possible. i have heard that they can consume anywhere from 1/2:1 to 1:1 ratio in lbs. So 1lb of worms could theoretically eat 1/2lb to maybe 1lb of food scraps in a day. Definitely not our experience. We feed them small amounts of scraps occassionaly during the month, but they seem to eat more shredded news paper than food scrap. We are not vegatarians but we do consume a significant amount of produce since we cook almost all our meals at home. Need to figure out how to get the little buggers to eat faster!

-Luke

[ggpalms]

Only trouble we have is our worms don't seem to eat as fast as others say is possible.-Luke

Are you using Red Wigglers? That's what most people use. The worms don't eat the organic food scraps. Bacteria, fungi and other microorganisms break it down and the worms eat the bacteria, fungi etc. That activity is what improves the soil and releases the nutrients to the plants. So this is just a tiny example of what the soil food web is all about! 

Or put another way. Worm poop is good fertilizer for the soil.

[lkailburn]

Yep local red wigglers. There's a "worm guy" whose been around the area for years. I'll have to chat with him and find out if our bins really are processing a lot slower (and if so why) or if they're chugging along as they should.

-Luke

[jason (palo alto)]

I think everyone can at least agree that vermicompost is a good solution for organic nutrition in containers.
I am dead set against compost tea, though I can see the appeal in containers vs. compost. Container growing is a different beast from in ground growing. I just can see compost tea as being any better than the synthetic foliar fertilizers (i.e Dyna-gro foliar pro and similar). And with the risk of E. coli in my food plants I think I'll stick to my synthetics as safer. Maybe they aren't organic but organic is far from always being better.

The one argument possibly made against this is the synthetics lack mycorrhizae, though if you are concerned about them, special mycorrhizae packets are available which are certain to contain the appropriate types as opposed to compost tea where who knows what is growing.

[nullzero]

I think everyone can at least agree that vermicompost is a good solution for organic nutrition in containers.
I am dead set against compost tea, though I can see the appeal in containers vs. compost. Container growing is a different beast from in ground growing. I just can see compost tea as being any better than the synthetic foliar fertilizers (i.e Dyna-gro foliar pro and similar). And with the risk of E. coli in my food plants I think I'll stick to my synthetics as safer. Maybe they aren't organic but organic is far from always being better.

The one argument possibly made against this is the synthetics lack mycorrhizae, though if you are concerned about them, special mycorrhizae packets are available which are certain to contain the appropriate types as opposed to compost tea where who knows what is growing.

E. coli does not really worry me, I don't feed the plants compost tea within a month of ripening. Also don't use it as foliar spray. Problem with using synthetics is the salts build up over time in a container environment, also the container soil becomes dead with little to no worm activity. If I grab a hand full of soil from most of the containers, I will have a good amount of earthworms in the soil. I noticed the results first hand, that is why I phased out synthetic fertilizers.

[jason (palo alto)]

E. coli does not really worry me, I don't feed the plants compost tea within a month of ripening. Also don't use it as foliar spray. Problem with using synthetics is the salts build up over time in a container environment, also the container soil becomes dead with little to no worm activity. If I grab a hand full of soil from most of the containers, I will have a good amount of earthworms in the soil. I noticed the results first hand, that is why I phased out synthetic fertilizers.

I haven't heard of actually wanting earthworms in plant containers. I usually pick them out of my container soils if I find them while transplanting. Most sites I've seen have stated that earthworms are harmful for container soil since they convert the fast draining soil structure into a slower draining structure. Have you found any resources promoting this? I'm curious since I haven't found any studies on this.
Dyna-gro in particular claims their product doesn't cause salt buildup and harm soil microorganisms. Don't know about the other synthetics but the ones specifically for container gardening, if they are any good, should be about the same.

[nullzero]

E. coli does not really worry me, I don't feed the plants compost tea within a month of ripening. Also don't use it as foliar spray. Problem with using synthetics is the salts build up over time in a container environment, also the container soil becomes dead with little to no worm activity. If I grab a hand full of soil from most of the containers, I will have a good amount of earthworms in the soil. I noticed the results first hand, that is why I phased out synthetic fertilizers.

I haven't heard of actually wanting earthworms in plant containers. I usually pick them out of my container soils if I find them while transplanting. Most sites I've seen have stated that earthworms are harmful for container soil since they convert the fast draining soil structure into a slower draining structure. Have you found any resources promoting this? I'm curious since I haven't found any studies on this.
Dyna-gro in particular claims their product doesn't cause salt buildup and harm soil microorganisms. Don't know about the other synthetics but the ones specifically for container gardening, if they are any good, should be about the same.

Earth worms breaking down soil does not bother me. I try to replace the soil mix between 1-2 year time frame. The soil mix has fresh pine bark mixed into it, so the structure is mostly intact for at least a year. I occasionally use premixes from the store (usually when I need a small quick batch of soil). The premixed potting soils have terrible life with or without worms breaking down within 6 months to a year.

Tell you the truth some of my best performing plants are growing in 80% sand with 20% compost. The trick is to grow them in a SWC container, so it causes a wick effect to the water reservoir.

The plants are really receptive to the soil mix, earthworms, compost tea, fish emulsion, kelp powder, and rock phosphate powder.

Wax Jambu growth rates using these methods. Not the most impressive growth rate, but for a plant outdoors all year round in a container in SoCal its pretty good.
10/30/10


10/9/11


4/29/12

[happyisland]

Compost tea is bunk:
Compost tea @ Garden Professors
and another post
There is a danger of E. coli with compost tea
Use compost instead and other organic amendments.

Thanks for the links, which were very informative, and did a lot to limit my enthusiasm for compost tea. I had no idea any such debate was even underway, and had just assumed that compost tea was a good thing, since it seems like a liquid version of compost. I stand corrected.

[ggpalms]

Here is a link to check out: http://oregonfoodweb.com/soil-biology/in-depth.html