Five New Mango Trees!

[Viraldonutz]

I just picked up five new mango trees:

Carrie
Cotton Candy
Dot
Orange Essence
Phoenix

What considerations should I take when deciding where to plant them?  Does any one of them do better in clay soil, for example?  Which are the more vigorous growers?  Which will enjoy more sun/shade?

I'll try to figure out how to post pictures here in a bit.  Thanks in advance!

--Jake

[Johnny Eat Fruit]

Mango Trees do poorly in Clay Soil.

The time to do your homework is before you purchase not afterward.

Cac, Buttercream, Orange Sherbet, and Seacrest are vigorous growers and would have been better choices than what you purchased especially on Turpentine rootstock.

Johnny

[Viraldonutz]

No offense, but what good is that to me? I don't need a lecture, I need advice and wisdom from more experienced growers.

I did plenty of homework, and would have purchased CAC or Buttercream if I had seen them... but it's nearly impossible to know all the particular characteristics of 300+ mangoes, so I went with a short list in hand, and bought what I could find. 

I'm not worried about how well they do themselves, I'm asking if anyone else has a better sense about any slight differences between the particular varieties I already selected.  I have some areas with more clay soil, and some with none... I'm just soliciting advice.

I see you have Orange Essence and Phoenix trees, do you not like them?  What would you have done differently?

I did see a Seacrest, though, and after reading more, now I might try to make it back there next week sometime to pick one up.  I figure I can plant about 10 more trees before the wife gets too mad... ;-)

[palingkecil]

I admire your bravery to purchase 5 trees at once. I am more a clumsy gardener, so i play it safe buy buying varieties that easier to take care. I just purchased a Sweet Tart from Jim Barrett nursery in florida. They have M4, Orange Sherbet, and Peach Cobbler too. $98 includes shipment to Cali, i figured it is worth it since I cannot find any sweet tart here. My friend who has been growing mangoes for 30 something years told me that in her experience, give the B1 solution every day once you transplant the tree in the ground. She has Carrie that does well in Cerritos area, no special treatment except the B1 and shade protection for the first year or two.

[Viraldonutz]

What's the B1 treatment you use?

[FMfruitforest]

No rush to plant the tree so you still have time to research sure. If i was you i would go to great extents to amend the soil to be fluffy and well draining.

[Tommyng]

Tastes are subjective but Some of those varieties you have are just as good as any variety out there. You should be happy with what you have. I’m not familiar with clay soils so just keep them in pots until you figure that out. Mango trees In general love the sun. Keep them watered regularly during the first year and they will thrive. You should be happy with those trees, I have some of them, they are great.

[johnb51]

I just picked up five new mango trees:

Carrie
Cotton Candy
Dot
Orange Essence
Phoenix

What considerations should I take when deciding where to plant them?  Does any one of them do better in clay soil, for example?  Which are the more vigorous growers?  Which will enjoy more sun/shade?

I'll try to figure out how to post pictures here in a bit.  Thanks in advance!

--Jake

Very nice collection of trees, Jake.  I hope you figure out how to lighten up the soil.  Do you get lots of sun and heat in your location?  How about the damn gophers?

[Johnny Eat Fruit]

Simon has written extensively on the subject of growing mango trees in Socal and I agree with him you should start off with Manila seedling trees first as a rootstock then graft with scions on to those trees after they have grown a few years first.  His remarks are all over this post and make good reading and education.

Plant your mango tree in sandy loam soil not clay or you will have slow and poor growth.

In my experience Dot grows slowly my Carrie on Turpentine died. Hopefully, you will have better luck with Carrie but that is a tricky tree.

I only have one branch I grafted in 2019 with Phoenix so it is too early to tell yet on the growth. We shall see.

Early this year I purchased an Orange Essence Mango Tree on Turpentine and it is in my small greenhouse now. It appears to be a moderate grower.  After I am done grafting the scions from this tree I will sell it. I never keep any of my trees on Turpentine long term. I use them just for scion wood and then they're gone.

Now would be the time to buy some manila seedling trees and start from there. If you want to accelerate growth in your young subtropical trees then buy a small greenhouse. My harbor freight  6 X 8 costs $400 including the wood base. Your trees will flush in the winter and stay green all year with this method. It's a way to supercharge growth in our mild climate. When they are bigger you can put them in the ground.

Johnny

[johnb51]

Plant your mango tree in sandy loam soil not clay or you will have slow and poor growth.

So how can he accomplish that if he has clay soil?

[Johnny Eat Fruit]

If you have heavy clay soil like I the best solution is to remove and replace the clay soil. I dig a 60" X 60" square hole 16" deep and discard the clay soil via craigslist (Free Dirt). Then I backfill the hole with 70% sandy loam, 15% course washed sand, and 15% pumice (I buy these ingredients in Bulk).  A hole this size will cost you about $100 to backfill but to me, it's worth every penny. Everything I grow in this soil does excellent. Over time you can expand the hole to 72 to 84" wide but for the first 3-4 years, the five-foot hole will be fine.

I know this is not the easiest solution but it is by far the most effective if you have heavy clay soil.

Johnny

[Viraldonutz]

So I've sorta done that to an extent -- I built a huge raised planter and imported 40 cubic yards of amended topsoil and potting mix -- my avocados are loving it, after I killed a bunch of them trying to plant in clay soil.

The reason I'm asking about differences between types is because I have room in the planter and other room outside the planter, so I'm just trying to get a good idea of what's better for each of them.  Dr. Campbell said that mangoes can grow in clay soil (and I have two mangoes already planted in some clay soil that are doing okay) but I know it's not the best.

Where do you buy sandy loam?  I've never noticed that for sale at any garden center or hardware store.  Do you add organic matter at all?

Don't know much about greenhouses -- do they get enough sun while inside?  It seems counterintuitive that they'd grow better with less direct sun, but that's worth trying.

I have read a lot of what Simon has written, and I got what he was saying about turpentine rootstock -- I just bought some manila mango seedlings at the same time, but I know very little yet about grafting.  Gotta do more homework!

[Viraldonutz]

Very nice collection of trees, Jake.  I hope you figure out how to lighten up the soil.  Do you get lots of sun and heat in your location?  How about the damn gophers?

Hah, I was just reading Oolie's gopher thread last night... sounds awful!  Thankfully, I've never seen a gopher or any traces of a gopher tunnel in the 6 years I've lived here], so I think I'll be good.  They're just not around here at all for some reason.

Thanks for the kind words, I'm eager to grow my collection yet even more.  I'll keep everyone apprised as I do.

[Johnny Eat Fruit]

I get my sandy loam soil with no organic material at Larry's Building materials. They have several locations in OC.

I do not add any organic material to my soil mix.

Johnny

[palingkecil]

What's the B1 treatment you use?

Any brand Home Depot or Lowe's carries is fine, just remember to dilute it with water. Once a day for a month, then once a week for another month, after that just use fish/kelp emulsion once every 2 weeks.

[stephen]

Johnny, can you please let me know more about the sandy loam soil that you get from Larry's Building Materials and the cost? I actually need to get some soil for planting a mango tree, so your message is quite timely.

Does the sandy loam soil come as a mix? I looked at the LBM website, and I don't see it on their list. I just see under Bulk Products: "Sand * Gravel * CEMEX * White sand * DG * Top soil * Planter mix * Compost * Forced floor mulch"

Is it their "Top soil"? Thanks!

[Johnny Eat Fruit]

Best to give them a call on going down to one of the locations. Last year I paid $23.50 per scoop (2 scoops per yard) for the topsoil. It comes from the bottom of a riverbed. They do not list everything on the website.

I will be getting some topsoil shortly myself for (5) more holes I am preparing. All of my subtropicals get prepared this way for maximum growth.

I have terrible very heavy clay at my home. I wish I had the soil from Alhambra or Pasadena area which is great. Downey also has excellent soil.

Johnny

[simon_grow]

I just picked up five new mango trees:

Carrie
Cotton Candy
Dot
Orange Essence
Phoenix

What considerations should I take when deciding where to plant them?  Does any one of them do better in clay soil, for example?  Which are the more vigorous growers?  Which will enjoy more sun/shade?

I'll try to figure out how to post pictures here in a bit.  Thanks in advance!

--Jake

Those are all great tasting mango varieties but taste is extremely subjective. Mangos love full sun and heat.

Because you purchased the Florida trees, I highly recommend you plant a bunch of Kent, Haden, Tommy Atkins and Manilla type seeds. Kent, Haden and Tommy Atkins are Monoembryonic and Manilla is Polyembryonic. I recommend you plant seeds from both types because everyone has slightly different soil conditions.

I have found that Kent seedling rootstock performs well in clay soil. Since you replaced your soil with good top soil, your Florida trees may perform ok but I highly recommend you plant seedling trees as back ups. Read through this thread.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=23124.0
DOT may have some disease and fruit retention issues in areas with higher humidity or around areas with stale air or low air movement

Simon

[stephen]

Best to give them a call on going down to one of the locations. Last year I paid $23.50 per scoop (2 scoops per yard) for the topsoil. It comes from the bottom of a riverbed. They do not list everything on the website.

I will be getting some topsoil shortly myself for (5) more holes I am preparing. All of my subtropicals get prepared this way for maximum growth.

I have terrible very heavy clay at my home. I wish I had the soil from Alhambra or Pasadena area which is great. Downey also has excellent soil.

Johnny

Thanks, Johnny! I'm not familiar with the size of the scoop. Does it come in a bag similar in size to bags of garden soil? Is it $23.50 per 1 cubit yard?

[Oolie]

Best to give them a call on going down to one of the locations. Last year I paid $23.50 per scoop (2 scoops per yard) for the topsoil. It comes from the bottom of a riverbed. They do not list everything on the website.

I will be getting some topsoil shortly myself for (5) more holes I am preparing. All of my subtropicals get prepared this way for maximum growth.

I have terrible very heavy clay at my home. I wish I had the soil from Alhambra or Pasadena area which is great. Downey also has excellent soil.

Johnny

Thanks, Johnny! I'm not familiar with the size of the scoop. Does it come in a bag similar in size to bags of garden soil? Is it $23.50 per 1 cubit yard?

A light truck without side boards can hold about a scoop(bucket). A full size (truck bed) piled and tarped may hold a cubic yard.

[stephen]

A light truck without side boards can hold about a scoop(bucket). A full size (truck bed) piled and tarped may hold a cubic yard.

Oh wow! I didn't realize a scoop was so much soil! I was expecting just a bag. That's a pretty solid deal, although I actually don't have a truck and wouldn't be able to use that much soil. But that's great to know!