Author Topic: SoCal Mango Scions and Grafting  (Read 1969 times)

Victoria Ave

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Re: SoCal Mango Scions and Grafting
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2021, 10:04:59 PM »
Also, the node above which I cut is pushing buds to branch out as desired if these grafts fail. Is the root stock pushing new growth a good sign for the scion as it may push too?

Thank you

UplanderCA

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Re: SoCal Mango Scions and Grafting
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2021, 09:37:57 PM »
As a general rule, new growth on the root stock near the  graft would siphon energy and nutrients away from the graft.  Can you post a  photo of the growth?  It does appear that you may have used too much paraffin tape on the scion tip.  I would give the graft a little more time to heal before removing the tape from the scion tip...(my opinion only).  If you could send clearer photos of the new growth below the tape, it would be more helpful.

Tony

Victoria Ave

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Re: SoCal Mango Scions and Grafting
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2021, 09:46:01 PM »
Well Tony, this morning I saw the green spots developing more under the tape and it was looking crowded so I carefully snipped the tape away. At the tip I had wrapped it with three layers of tape.

This revealed the buds pushing on the scion. The growth on the rest of the root stock is at the same stage as the scion, buds swelling and little leaves forming. Within a week or so I should have lots of flushes and am hoping this scion keeps pace with the rest.

I placed a plastic bag which had water sprayed in it over the scions and secured the end to the root stock with garden tape to keep the humidity up and allow for easy observation. So here's hoping.




UplanderCA

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Re: SoCal Mango Scions and Grafting
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2021, 01:21:13 PM »
Those buds look pretty good.  They should be leafing out very soon.  Hopefully, the other scions start pushing soon.  Don't forget to post updates every few weeks.

Tony

Victoria Ave

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Re: SoCal Mango Scions and Grafting
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2021, 08:54:50 PM »
4 week from graft update. One scion is pushing. I removed the plastic bag. Another scion is still green with bud swelling and the other is still green with no visible action under the tape. I removed a few more of the lower branches. And plan after this flush to remove all limbs below. A couple shoots from the root stock are growing as planned from below the cut. I will allow these to grow and if the other scions do not take the. I will graft them next year.

Does the thinning as I laid out sound like a good plan? Overall I am pretty happy with how my first grafting experience is going.




sapote

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Re: SoCal Mango Scions and Grafting
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2021, 01:24:06 AM »
A couple shoots from the root stock are growing as planned from below the cut. I will allow these to grow and if the other scions do not take the. I will graft them next year.

first, congratulations on the successful graft! The new growth on the scion looks good. I would remove all of the new shoots below the graft for the tree to push the scion. If the scions died then the tree will sure send out new shoots below the graft line.

Victoria Ave

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Re: SoCal Mango Scions and Grafting
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2021, 01:47:27 PM »
Thanks! Today I removed all the branches and shoots below the graft except one. I was going to let this shoot develop and graft to it, or should I just go all on on the scion? The scion had three shoots developing which I suppose I could structure the tree off and one scion which is still green and firm and may develop as well.






sapote

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Re: SoCal Mango Scions and Grafting
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2021, 03:04:36 AM »
Oh well, the scions and graft is just an exercise for you with not much value as compared to the shoot below it, but to ensure the scion with higher chances of survive I would remove all shoots.

Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: SoCal Mango Scions and Grafting
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2021, 08:26:49 AM »
If your rootstock is strong and healthy and the root system of your mango tree is robust then I would allow 3-4 shoots to form just below your graft and let the shoots grow this year (2021) for grafting in 2022. A strong tree can easily support multiple young shoots and a young graft.

If the mango tree is young with a weak or immature root system then I would remove all growth below the graft and focus the tree's resources toward the new graft only. Each situation is different and this largely depends on the quality and vigor of the mango rootstock that is used. You have to use your best judgment to determine that.

Removing the lower branches was good since those were essentially suckers taking away growth and vigor from the upper branching.

Johnny
« Last Edit: August 22, 2021, 08:53:04 AM by Johnny Eat Fruit »

Victoria Ave

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Re: SoCal Mango Scions and Grafting
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2021, 12:22:05 PM »
Thanks for the input guys! I'm hoping with the weather warming up again I'll get a few flushes and see what happens. I will leave the one shoot I have now for grafting next year.

I'm wondering if it would be worth making it a coktail tree with different varieties. Is this a successful practice in SoCal, or does it end up being too demanding on the tree?

sapote

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Re: SoCal Mango Scions and Grafting
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2021, 05:08:36 PM »
Thanks for the input guys! I'm hoping with the weather warming up again I'll get a few flushes and see what happens. I will leave the one shoot I have now for grafting next year.

I'm wondering if it would be worth making it a coktail tree with different varieties. Is this a successful practice in SoCal, or does it end up being too demanding on the tree?

This is the Criollo seedling and not the grafted Valencia?
Most of my trees are cocktail with multiple varieties. The important point is that all the varieties should have similar growth vigorousness -- vigorous Lemon Zest will kill compact Himam Pasand, as an example.

Victoria Ave

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Re: SoCal Mango Scions and Grafting
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2021, 06:03:04 PM »
Yes, this is the Criollo seedling which I have grafted the Valencia pride on to. I'm interested in seeing if the grafted Valencia pride on this rootstock will out perform the Valencia pride on Florida rootstock.

But I have not got to try too many different mango types and would really like another variety grafted on to the Criollo rootstock. Lemon zest and sweet tart seem to be great options

Victoria Ave

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Re: SoCal Mango Scions and Grafting
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2021, 08:10:22 PM »
6 week update. New shoots are forming below the graft and I selectively leaving 3 of them for future grafting/ making a cocktail tree. The new growth I Selecting are at staggered intervals along the trunk instead from the same node, which I've read makes for a stronger structure.

The scion leaves were looking pretty rough but i discovered that the angle of my shade cloth was allowing the leaves to get blasted with mid day sun. I adjusted about a week ago and camr home to find that they are going for a new flush. Hoping for healthier leaves.

And as a bonus my super late Valencia pride developing on my Valencia pride tree which provided the bud wood.

Since this topic is mostly geared towards socal growing I'm wondering if any of you socal guys would be able to help me aquire good tasting poly seeds (lemon zest, sweetart, NDM) etc. Willing to pay of course, but would like to grow a strong seedling into a performing, non grafted tree.

Thanks!
 






Lovetoplant

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Re: SoCal Mango Scions and Grafting
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2021, 02:35:35 AM »
Thanks for the input guys! I'm hoping with the weather warming up again I'll get a few flushes and see what happens. I will leave the one shoot I have now for grafting next year.

I'm wondering if it would be worth making it a coktail tree with different varieties. Is this a successful practice in SoCal, or does it end up being too demanding on the tree?

This is the Criollo seedling and not the grafted Valencia?
Most of my trees are cocktail with multiple varieties. The important point is that all the varieties should have similar growth vigorousness -- vigorous Lemon Zest will kill compact Himam Pasand, as an example.

Sapote:  I just grafted PPK, PSM, and Kiew Savoy on to a Manila.  PPK is being on the top.  PSM is side grafted in the middle of the trunk and Kiew is side grafted at the lowest(grafted on the trunk as well).

Are theses varieties share same growth vigorousness?

PPK and Kiew scions each push (2) 5inches new growth at the crown locations.  PSM only flushes (1) 1inch of new growth on its side not at the crow.

sapote

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Re: SoCal Mango Scions and Grafting
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2021, 08:00:06 PM »
6 week update. New shoots are forming below the graft and I selectively leaving 3 of them for future grafting/ making a cocktail tree.

So one scion survives and two died?

Victoria Ave

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Re: SoCal Mango Scions and Grafting
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2021, 10:32:47 PM »
Yes, only one scion survived. It was the thickest of the three ( pencil thickness) and had the best buds on it. The other two were probably not developed enough or pushing too much to graft successfully. I just grabbed the scions and yanked them firmly away from the tape holding the graft together as I was worried about mold and infection.

The one graft shot out three sprouts but two are out competing the one and I'm considering pinching it off

I am also curious what varieties would work best with Valencia pride for a cocktail tree

yuzr

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Re: SoCal Mango Scions and Grafting
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2021, 01:11:34 AM »
removing blooms/fruit at the appropriate time
What would be a rule of thumb for "appropriate time" ?

rootstock is huge so pinching things below the graft does nothing
Please explain.

Seanny

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Re: SoCal Mango Scions and Grafting
« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2021, 03:19:59 AM »
rootstock is huge so pinching things below the graft does nothing
Please explain.

Apical dominance is the release of hormones from tip of branch.
Hormones flow down the branch to inhibit new shoots below.
When I graft using cleft, or bark graft like above, I cut off the tip.
There is no longer any apical dominance so the scion is free to grow new shoots.

Why would I need to cut off branches below?
How do I multi graft a tree at different times if I have cut off old grafts to get new grafts? Ridiculous!

My mango tree is holding fruits.
I donít remove any fruits nor any leaves nor any branches to graft another variety.
Graft is about to send out new shoots the 2nd time.

If you graft pencil sized rootstock, you need to remove new water shoots.
Otherwise, do nothing.



Mango tree with a branch 1Ē below cleft graft.
There is another branch lower on the left.
See new shoot from scion?





Atemoya scion on soursop rootstock.
Nothing removed below the cleft graft.

sapote

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Re: SoCal Mango Scions and Grafting
« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2021, 03:32:23 PM »

Apical dominance is the release of hormones from tip of branch.
Hormones flow down the branch to inhibit new shoots below.
When I graft using cleft, or bark graft like above, I cut off the tip.
There is no longer any apical dominance so the scion is free to grow new shoots.

Why would I need to cut off branches below?
How do I multi graft a tree at different times if I have cut off old grafts to get new grafts? Ridiculous!

My mango tree is holding fruits.
I donít remove any fruits nor any leaves nor any branches to graft another variety.
Graft is about to send out new shoots the 2nd time.

If you graft pencil sized rootstock, you need to remove new water shoots.
Otherwise, do nothing.



Mango tree with a branch 1Ē below cleft graft.
There is another branch lower on the left.
See new shoot from scion?





Atemoya scion on soursop rootstock.
Nothing removed below the cleft graft.

"Apical dominance is the release of hormones from tip of branch.
Hormones flow down the branch to inhibit new shoots below."
But since the new graft hasn't taken yet, then there is no or little hormones flow down to inhibit the new shoots that the root stock wants to push out. I think remove all new shoots below the graft is helping the graft to push its new grow.

"Why would I need to cut off branches below?"
An established branch with no new grow is different than a new shoot in how they may affect the new graft above them, I think.

"My mango tree is holding fruits.
I donít remove any fruits nor any leaves nor any branches to graft another variety."
Hmm, I sure don't see new grow while the tree holding many fruits. But as soon as the fruits were picked off clean, then we started seeing new grows pushing. So I think a tree without any fruits will help the graft pushing new grow, as compared to a tree with many fruits.

"Atemoya scion on soursop rootstock.
Nothing removed below the cleft graft."
They are established branches and not new shoots below the new graft, and I think the difference is important to know.

Seanny

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Re: SoCal Mango Scions and Grafting
« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2021, 10:58:58 PM »



Grafted mid June on a non-fruiting branch on a tree holding fruits.

My point is

No need to hack your tree to make a good graft.

 

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