Author Topic: Is it good to graft it?  (Read 623 times)

Tony714

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Is it good to graft it?
« on: August 03, 2021, 11:16:08 AM »
Hi,

I have this Lemon Zest and want to graft it on other tree.   This scion is like this for weeks, no sign of budding but there are new growths below this part.  Do you think it's good to graft it (don't want to miss this window)or I should wait. 

Thanks
Tony












achetadomestica

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Re: Is it good to graft it?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2021, 12:36:11 PM »
It doesn't look like it's pushing yet?
It may be putting all it's energy in the new growth behind the scion?

sc4001992

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Re: Is it good to graft it?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2021, 12:39:29 PM »
Tony, I'm no mango expert but I can see that your scion has no buds swelling so it is not ready to cut/graft.
Here's a few good scions I have grafted on my mango from reputable sources which grafted well for me.

1.) Behlgarden, photo 1-2
2.) Tropical Acres Farm, photo 3








Tony714

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Re: Is it good to graft it?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2021, 03:55:17 PM »
those great looking scions -  mine looks like no good.   
hope it 'll surprise later.

sapote

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Re: Is it good to graft it?
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2021, 04:53:56 PM »
Hi,

I have this Lemon Zest and want to graft it on other tree.   This scion is like this for weeks, no sign of budding but there are new growths below this part. 

Tony,

There are blacken areas near the potential buds on yours, and I think it has fungus disease and this is why it has not pushing the buds.

Tony714

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Re: Is it good to graft it?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2021, 05:51:37 PM »
do you know what kind of fungus disease or need any treatment?  hope it's common.  i'll cut it off and wait for for next one to be safe.

JakeFruit

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Re: Is it good to graft it?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2021, 06:12:55 PM »
Sapote is right, there is definitely something not good going on. Those black and slightly dark areas are dead/dying tissue. Growth nodules on the next internode down are also dead. You have that (seemingly healthy) new growth shoot coming off from the 3rd internode down that is visible; it's probably the case the plant is abandoning everything above that new shoot, none of that has a realistic shot at grafting successfully. You look like you have issues with yellowing/damaged leaves, too. I'd be trying to figure out what caused the problem asap and rectify any soil/nutrition issues, otherwise you could quickly lose the plant.

This thread, https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=1001, is a good place to post those pics. Some smart people on there can hopefully diagnose the situation. Include what type of soil (mix) it's in, whatever fertilizer you are using, and how often it's getting watered when you post there.

Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: Is it good to graft it?
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2021, 08:00:28 PM »
I live in a similar area to yours and my Lemon Zest is flushing with its first growth flush of the year. Many factors affect growth, including disease, root-stock type and vigor, type of soil, and micronutrients supplied or not supplied.

Hard to say what your issue is. Other than the photos you did not supply much information on the rootstock and other things mentioned above.

Lemon Zest once established is fairly upright vigorous. For successful grafting, you need the scion pushing and the root-stock pushing new growth at the same time. Then it comes down to grafting skills.

Grafted Mango trees are difficult to grow in this area, but success is possible if everything is done correctly. Growing seedling trees is probably easier long term but most people are too impatient to wait 5-7 years for success. Note: not all seedling are vigorous. Grow (10) and select the top (3) after one year plus of growth.

Johnny
« Last Edit: August 03, 2021, 08:11:39 PM by Johnny Eat Fruit »

Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: Is it good to graft it?
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2021, 08:13:01 PM »
I live in a similar area to yours and my Lemon Zest is flushing with its first growth flush of the year. Many factors affect growth, including disease, root-stock type and vigor, type of soil, and micronutrients supplied or not supplied.

Hard to say what your issue is. Other than the photos you did not supply much information on the rootstock and other things mentioned above.

Lemon Zest once established is fairly upright vigorous. For successful grafting, you need the scion pushing and the root-stock pushing new growth at the same time. Then it comes down to grafting skills.

Grafted Mango trees are difficult to grow in this area, but success is possible if everything is done correctly. Growing seedling trees is probably easier long term but most people are too impatient to wait 5-7 years for success. Note: not all seedling are vigorous. Grow (10) and select the top (3) after one year plus of growth. I start my seeds out in five-gallon pots with sandy soil and 15% pumice and 15% peatposs.

Johnny

Sorry for the Duplicate. I was just trying to add addition information.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2021, 08:14:33 PM by Johnny Eat Fruit »

sc4001992

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Re: Is it good to graft it?
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2021, 08:38:04 PM »
Johnny, good info. I better try your mix for the seeds I'm growing now (sweet tart). Thanks.
I have been using the manila rootstock for all of my mango grafts and they seem to be fine once the graft takes.

Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: Is it good to graft it?
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2021, 09:01:28 PM »
Regarding manila trees commonly found at home depot. Here are my personal observations, strictly opinionated. 

The quality of manila trees has declined in recent years. I don't know why? Kind of strange. I used to buy manila trees 4-5 years ago and they were largely fine.

I purchased (4) manila trees in 2020 and they were all duds. One died and the other three are not growing. I don't know why. I plant them in in same soil as my other potted mango trees but the root system is week. I saw some trees at HD in May of this year and they were all very small and looked weak with little girth. Luckily I had some ataulfo seedlings that I started to grow from seed in 2019 that were doing well so I used those for grafting.   

I have found over time the quality of the rootstock is very important and equally consequential to growing mango trees well in this area.

Most people on this forum in SoCal are focused on getting the latest and greatest variety and grafting but little thought is given to the rootstock. Both are important for long-term success. Most folks are absorbed in getting a few fruits from their small tree and sacrificing vegetative growth.

To each, his own but I will keep an eye on the end game. A healthy tree, a strong root system, and vigorous growth.

Good luck SoCal Growers

Johnny


sc4001992

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Re: Is it good to graft it?
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2021, 12:01:36 AM »
Yes, I agree about the quality of the HD manila trees. I also purchase it from HD and I noticed the same thing, I only pick them up if I see a healthy large plant. Also Armstrong seems to carry some that are a little better looking than HD.

Tony714

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Re: Is it good to graft it?
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2021, 10:57:26 AM »
I bought it and others 3-4 months ago from parking lot sale.   It looked like this except new growths.  Other mango tree has label Manila rootstock.  I m guessing it grafted on Manila rootstock with sand, perlite and potting mix.  Let me know if you need more pictures.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2021, 11:32:21 AM by Tony714 »

Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: Is it good to graft it?
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2021, 01:16:41 PM »
A more wide-angle photo of the LZ tree you have would be helpful as well as the rootstock tree you plan to graft it onto. The LZ scion you previously posted is not yet ready for harvest. Best to wait or order some scions from Alex at Tropical Acres Farms. I just Grafted (15) scions I purchased from Alex last week to some of my older mango seedling trees and others I am partially top working. 

If I could go back in time and do this whole mango thing over again I would likely purchase 20-30 poly seeds from Florida, germinate them all, and put the best ones in 5-gallon pots to grow over the next year to year and a half. After one year+ I would move the best growing specimens into larger seven-gallon pots for further root development and observation. After two years+ take the top 25-30% of the seeds you germinated and plant them in the ground with sandy soil. That's just my take if I had more time and could start from scratch. I would grow seeds like Cac, Sweet Tart, Lemon Zest, OS, Fruit Punch, Seacrest, or any other faster and more vigorous variety preferably Poly. I would also observe if the young tees have a tendency to flower very young, if so then these would likely not be the ones I would pick to put in the ground as I prefer strong vegetative growth for the first four years if possible to maximize canopy development. Being able to hand select strong growing mango seedling trees will prove to be a huge advantage long term.   

Good Luck

Johnny

Tony714

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Re: Is it good to graft it?
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2021, 04:26:55 PM »
I end up cut it off and will  see how tree turns out. 
Here are some more pics with new growth














Seanny

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Re: Is it good to graft it?
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2021, 04:39:53 PM »



Remove the branch at graft area.

Tony714

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Re: Is it good to graft it?
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2021, 05:33:18 PM »
oh sure will.

John B

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Re: Is it good to graft it?
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2021, 07:19:16 PM »
Yep, the manila rootstock likes to bush out once cut/grafted. I, like most others, only keep the graft branch. All others should be cut off.

On my larger Atulfo rootstock, this is a weekly chore but this has helped all scions to push hard.

 

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