Citrus > Cold Hardy Citrus

Where to acquire Poncirus+? (Crossing with Satsumas)

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dytandme:
Hi ya'll, I'm one of the many (or few?) folks out there attempting to create improved cold hardy citrus trees to grow up here in 6B. I know there are many folks far ahead of me, but I see that as inspiration!!

I'm interested in procuring a Poncirus+ tree for breeding purposes. I just don't know where the heck to find one? Can anyone point me the right direction?

If anyone else on this path has cuttings or babies of promising F1, F2, (or F3 if anyone got that far?) they'd be willing to share, I'd love to collaborate. Particularly if it's poncirus trifoliata x citrus unshiu. ;)

I realize there are many challenges involved and the chances of an outcome in line with my goals are slim. That's how life goes. I happen to like challenges.

I currently have a flying dragon tree I intend to cross with a satsuma mandarin but I suspect poncirus+ or existing poncirus hybrids may a better starting point. If I feel extra feisty, I may also attempt to cross with a ponderosa lemon.

Till:
I am willing to help you but I live in Europe. So there are problems with customs. My Poncirus+ does not yet bloom. But I could provide you with pollen of other better tasting Poncirus if you are interested.

kumin:
Getting a good grasp on the phenomenon of Nucellar vs Zygotic embryony is nearly a requisite for the selection of prospective breeding stock. There may also be a considerable advantage to beginning with the hardiest edible parents. Satsuma are a quite hardy group of cultivars. Low seed production coupled with considerable nucellar embryony are downsides to Satsumas as seed parents. Meyer lemon is hardier than Ponderosa lemon. Meyer produces 100% zygotic seedlings as a seed parent.

I've found Poncirus+ seedlings to begin fruiting at 3 and 4 years of age.

dytandme:

--- Quote from: kumin on November 12, 2023, 02:26:42 PM ---Getting a good grasp on the phenomenon of Nucellar vs Zygotic embryony is nearly a requisite for the selection of prospective breeding stock. There may also be a considerable advantage to beginning with the hardiest edible parents. Satsuma are a quite hardy group of cultivars. Low seed production coupled with considerable nucellar embryony are downsides to Satsumas as seed parents. Meyer lemon is hardier than Ponderosa lemon. Meyer produces 100% zygotic seedlings as a seed parent.

I've found Poncirus+ seedlings to begin fruiting at 3 and 4 years of age.

--- End quote ---

I was thinking of starting with poncirus for it's cold hardiness and 50% zygotic offspring. I did not know Meyer lemon produces 100% zygotic seedlings though. That's good news for the flowers I pollinated with Persian lime. If only my Sasumas were putting out pollen too right now.

I figured if I could locate a F1 or F2 hybrid of poncirus, or Meyer lemon as you suggested, ideally a tetraploid, that I could cross it with the satsumas providing pollen. The super unrealistic hope there is for a seedless triploid offspring with cold hardiness to boot.

The appeal of Ponderosa lemon as a pollen donor was that I have access to many mature trees and generalized curiosity as to what might result from the two. If I eventually jump into this project with both feet, that won't be a part of the scope.

It's worth mentioning, I am hoping to do something like kumin on my farm in WV. I reached out and asked for his advice.


--- Quote from: Till on November 12, 2023, 04:17:07 AM ---I am willing to help you but I live in Europe. So there are problems with customs. My Poncirus+ does not yet bloom. But I could provide you with pollen of other better tasting Poncirus if you are interested.

--- End quote ---

Thank you for the kind offer! I'm a little hesitant to fuss with customs. I believe there are people stateside with trees. I just need to find them.  ;D

Till:
I have read in a Citrus book that diploid pollen (from tetraploid plants) on diploid flowers will hardly work. In this case the plant realizes that its own genetics differ too much from the genetics of the pollen and blocks it.
I do not know how great the chance is to get offspring nonetheless.

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