Author Topic: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids  (Read 3780 times)

martweb

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
    • Germany, Bavaria, Maisach
    • View Profile
Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« on: January 09, 2023, 11:34:07 PM »
Which Poncirus hybrids are at least partially zygotic?

Florian

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
    • Solothurn, Switzerland.
    • View Profile
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2023, 05:24:49 AM »
Citrandarin US 852 and Sacaton Citrumelo are known to produce only about 50% or so nucellar seeds. Also, Ilya has made many hybrids with his Citrumelo 5*. I would prefer the 5* over Sacaton since the latter tastes awful even for a Citrumelo.

Ilya11

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 939
    • France, Paris region, Vaux le Penil, middle of Northern z8
    • View Profile
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2023, 06:11:01 AM »
I recently found that SwampLemon PT is partially zygotic.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

kumin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 703
    • USA PA 6b
    • View Profile
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2023, 06:11:28 AM »
US 1279, 1281, and 1282 are essentially 100% zygotic . Changsha x Poncirus for 1279.
Cleopatra x Poncirus for 1281 and 1282

martweb

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
    • Germany, Bavaria, Maisach
    • View Profile
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2023, 01:41:13 PM »
Thanks for all current and all further replies. It is good also to know which of them are tastier.

mikkel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 567
    • Lueneburg, Germany Zone 7
    • View Profile
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2023, 02:24:45 PM »
IVIA-450    Poncirus Monoembriónico at IVIA and Monoembryonic trifoliate at UC Riverside are at least not polyembryonic thus probably zygotic.

https://ivia.gva.es/va/busqueda-por-orden-alfabetico-nombres-comunes

https://citrusvariety.ucr.edu/crc3888



@Ilya How do you distinguish zygotic from nucellar seedlings in Poncirus, aside from obvious polyembryonic seedlings?

Ilya11

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 939
    • France, Paris region, Vaux le Penil, middle of Northern z8
    • View Profile
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2023, 05:01:03 PM »
When I pollinated SwampLemon by IVIA pollen, 90% of seedlings had leaf morphology in between ichangensis and PT and most also had a red color of new shoots.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

martweb

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
    • Germany, Bavaria, Maisach
    • View Profile
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2023, 12:46:13 AM »
How about ichangensis x sinensis?

Till

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 197
    • Germany, Simmerath (City), Zone 6b
    • View Profile
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2023, 03:15:11 PM »
Ilya sent me some Poncirus+ seeds two years ago. There was some variation in the seedlings. And I would say there were also tetraploid seedlings. It is difficult though to count the exact number of zygotic seedlings. Most look too similar. They can be zygotic or not.

Batumi Citrumelo has zygotic seeds at least some at least when the right pollen is used. Batumi Citrumelo has a very good taste. But it is sour.

Sanford Curafora is probably zygotic. I have read about hybrids and I had a bundle of seedlings that were all zygotic (though not very vital except one that was not hardy...)

C35 is said to produce 10% zygotic seeds. Phelps and Sanford Citranges are 100% zygotic. But I could not get them in years. Very frustrating.

What about African Shadock x Poncirus? My fruits are not yet ripe. So I have no own experience by now.

Zitrusgaertner

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
    • Vienna, Austria, European Union 7b
    • View Profile
    • www.agrumi.at
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2023, 11:36:56 AM »
Ilya sent me some Poncirus+ seeds two years ago. There was some variation in the seedlings. And I would say there were also tetraploid seedlings. It is difficult though to count the exact number of zygotic seedlings. Most look too similar. They can be zygotic or not.

Batumi Citrumelo has zygotic seeds at least some at least when the right pollen is used. Batumi Citrumelo has a very good taste. But it is sour.

your batumi CM comes from ADAVO?

Till

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 197
    • Germany, Simmerath (City), Zone 6b
    • View Profile
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2023, 03:10:26 PM »
Good question where it is from. I got it as budwood via Mikkel. As far as I remember he got it from a czech source, from a private person. You may ask Mikkel if he remembers from whom. It is some years ago.

poncirsguy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 693
    • Cincinnati, Ohio, USA, 6a/6b
    • View Profile
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2023, 03:53:38 PM »
I believe Flying dragon is 50% zygotic.

Citradia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 958
    • USA/NC/Old Fort/6B
    • View Profile
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2023, 07:42:45 PM »
So, if flying dragon is 50% zygotic, is that why some of my flying dragon seeds make seedlings that resemble standard poncirus with straight trunks and thorns? That would imply that flying dragon would be good to try making hybrids with, right?

poncirsguy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 693
    • Cincinnati, Ohio, USA, 6a/6b
    • View Profile
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2023, 10:54:59 PM »
I think so.  Yes. 

Till

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 197
    • Germany, Simmerath (City), Zone 6b
    • View Profile
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2023, 05:10:40 PM »
I have read that the growth habit of Flying Dragon is caused by one dominant gene or allel. So it could easily be outbread. But that would also mean that there is perhaps not one Flying Dragon around but many Flying Dragons with different genealogies, different numbers of zygotic seeds, different taste etc.
What is your impression? I have not much experience with Flying Dragon myself.

Florian

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 294
    • Solothurn, Switzerland.
    • View Profile
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2023, 07:36:07 AM »
I have read that the growth habit of Flying Dragon is caused by one dominant gene or allel. So it could easily be outbread. But that would also mean that there is perhaps not one Flying Dragon around but many Flying Dragons with different genealogies, different numbers of zygotic seeds, different taste etc.
What is your impression? I have not much experience with Flying Dragon myself.

I have thought so before. The description from The Citrus Industry Vol. 1 (1967) cited by the UCR website says: Grown primarily as a potted plant, this is a highly dwarfed variety with very small leaves, the leaflets of which are commonly reduced to linear filaments, and slender crooked branches armed with large, downward-curved spines.. My flying dragon certainly does not have linear filaments as leaves. Also, I have tried to pollinate it a few times and not once had a hybrid which one would expect in a 50 % zygotic plant. And all of my seedlings are dwarfed and contorted; there has never been a regular type seedling.

mikkel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 567
    • Lueneburg, Germany Zone 7
    • View Profile
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2023, 08:04:08 AM »
I have had FD seedling batches with almost 100% normal growth habit.

kumin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 703
    • USA PA 6b
    • View Profile
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2023, 10:06:16 AM »
Were regular Poncirus trees blooming nearby?

mikkel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 567
    • Lueneburg, Germany Zone 7
    • View Profile
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2023, 04:29:41 PM »
I can not say. The seeds were given to me.

kumin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 703
    • USA PA 6b
    • View Profile
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2023, 04:40:34 PM »
I would expect Flying Dragon flowers being pollinated by regular Poncirus to have a fewer Flying Dragon seedlings.

pagnr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 939
    • View Profile
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2023, 01:42:29 AM »
For commercial Citrus rootstock seed production I don't think there is any attempt to exclude pollination from other nearby rootstock Citrus types.
That is in mixed plantings or rootstock seed trees, including FD and PT.
Off types may need to be removed, but the seedlings are usually highly uniform for rootstock use.
I have found variants in rootstock seed, but never thought they were pollinated hybrids.

sc4001992

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3708
    • USA, CA, Fullerton
    • View Profile
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2023, 04:42:03 AM »
I just planted out my seeds from the Flying Dragon tree I have, here's a few photos of the seedlings. They look very similar to me. I have many other varieties grafted on the tree and another tree 10 feet from the FD.






poncirsguy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 693
    • Cincinnati, Ohio, USA, 6a/6b
    • View Profile

Till

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 197
    • Germany, Simmerath (City), Zone 6b
    • View Profile
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2023, 05:01:20 PM »
Nice table! Data of Poncirus certainly depends on the cultivar. Poncirus can have 100% zygotic seeds or hardly 1%.

Zitrusgaertner

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
    • Vienna, Austria, European Union 7b
    • View Profile
    • www.agrumi.at
Re: Zygotic Poncirus hybrids
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2023, 05:18:51 AM »
Nice table! Data of Poncirus certainly depends on the cultivar. Poncirus can have 100% zygotic seeds or hardly 1%.

Never heard of 100% zygotic Poncirus

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk