Bronze scuppernog grape cuttings

[D-Grower]

Bunches of available cuttings of bronze scuppernog grape. Not sure what the variety may have been but the original vines are from the property behind mine. They've been there an awful long time. There's two varieties growing on a gazebo like arbor on that neighbor's land. I rooted a piece from one of them a few years back for my own yard. Wish I could get a piece of the other variety. Met the original owner when we moved here but the land has been sold twice since then and I don't know the new owners and they aren't living there full time yet. The particular one I have is very productive and very sweet. Good sized grapes like many you might buy at a store. My vine has lots of growth to cut back. Can send good length cuttings at $1.50 each. Minimum of 8 cuttings at $12 plus applicable shipping. Small flat rate box or priority mail package if cheaper.

Thanks! DG

[Pokeweed]

Hi Derek! I'd like to get 8. PM me with total. Thanks! D

[D-Grower]

Plenty of cuttings still available. Get them before they wake up!

[Galatians522]

Have you had good success rooting this one from hard wood cuttings like bunch grapes? I found simple layering to be way more reliable for the muscadines that I have tried to propagate.

[D-Grower]

Definitely layering is best and almost 100% successful. However I have rooted this one from regular cuttings. Not sure if it was a named variety but I suppose it is. Originally from my neighbors yard behind me. Rooted a few from his vines a few years back for my yard. Even without the normal maintenance it's still a good producer. The original owner no longer lives there or I'd ask if he knew what kind it was. The other variety he had over there is stellar but didn't have success rooting that one. Big grapes like ping pong ball sized and mostly still green when ripe. Down side is that at each flower it only holds a few grapes probably due to the large size each one gets. Vines aren't maintained though either so that may be a factor as well. If I can I'll try rooting them again but I don't know the new people so can't just jump in their yard and take cuttings. Maybe I'll meet them at some point again more than the once I talked to one of the guys over there very briefly at the back fence.

I may eventually release another large purple variety I collected from a large rock pile behind the place I used to work at. It may be a wild variety that just happens to have large good fruits but it's possible it ended up there at some point maybe when the rocks were dumped or whatever and rooted. Worthy of being a named variety and grows fully on its own without human intervention and is still highly productive too. Fortunately rooted a piece of that one before the original plant was destroyed when new owners took over the company and cleared the area back there. I'm gonna name it "Taunton" after the original owners of the business that used to own the land.

[Galatians522]

That is very interesting. Sounds like the bronze one you have is self fertile. Carlos is probably the most common self fertile bronze. Of the ones I am familiar with, the big one sounds like Pam. There are lots of possibilities for both, though. If your rock pile vine is self fertile there is a 99.999% chance that it is of cultivated origin. Only 2 self fertile muscadines have ever been found in the wild. All the other self fertile ones are decended from those two.

[D-Grower]

If wild muscadine can pollinate the particular type I have then they might not be self fertile. I live in an area that is rural and wild muscadine are everywhere. I have heard 90% of wild vines are male but I'm unsure how true that might be. There are wild females around. Most of which have small purple black fruits. I have found a few with larger fruits but not quite as large as the ones I'm growing most often. I did find one with near marble sized fruits with distinctly pink skin. Fruit isn't large but ok flavor for a wild vine. However tastes are subjective and I'm one of those that can eat nearly anything and enjoy it to some extent. I like wild persimmon, muscadine, sand pears, etc and will eat them no problem at all. I eat the skins and seeds of muscadine no problem chewing the seeds not just swallowing them. I crunch through and enjoy Duncan white grapefruit seeds and all as bitter and numerous as the seeds can be. No qualms at all about that sort of stuff most wouldn't or couldn't do. It's a nutritional thing in my mind too I guess. The best phytonutrients and other bioactive compounds are highest in the parts most discard in many cases. That said I can acknowledge what would be considered a "good" fruit to those with much more picky tastes.

[Galatians522]

If wild muscadine can pollinate the particular type I have then they might not be self fertile. I live in an area that is rural and wild muscadine are everywhere. I have heard 90% of wild vines are male but I'm unsure how true that might be. There are wild females around. Most of which have small purple black fruits. I have found a few with larger fruits but not quite as large as the ones I'm growing most often. I did find one with near marble sized fruits with distinctly pink skin. Fruit isn't large but ok flavor for a wild vine. However tastes are subjective and I'm one of those that can eat nearly anything and enjoy it to some extent. I like wild persimmon, muscadine, sand pears, etc and will eat them no problem at all. I eat the skins and seeds of muscadine no problem chewing the seeds not just swallowing them. I crunch through and enjoy Duncan white grapefruit seeds and all as bitter and numerous as the seeds can be. No qualms at all about that sort of stuff most wouldn't or couldn't do. It's a nutritional thing in my mind too I guess. The best phytonutrients and other bioactive compounds are highest in the parts most discard in many cases. That said I can acknowledge what would be considered a "good" fruit to those with much more picky tastes.

Yes, the wild Florida subspecies will pollinate muscadines if the blooms overlap. If my guess is right, the grape you found with pink skin is Vitis shuttleworthii "Calusa Grape." It has a lot of similarities with Muscadines, but is actually a bunch grape. Wild muscadines never come in pink (unless you have the first one)--that gene actually came from bunch grapes via a lot of crosses and back crosses. Calusa grapes ripen earlier, have felty leaves (especially on new growth), furrowed instead of smooth bark, and forked tendrils (muscadine tendrils are single). Calusa grape is also more graft compatible with bunch grapes--I have a bunch grape hybrid grafted on one right now.

[D-Grower]

The pink grape in question I do believe is a muscadine based on your description of the vines. Don't have a pic of the actual vine to share but I can get some. The vine is smooth and leaves are not velvety at all. Basically identical to the other muscadine growing with it. Cannot speak on the tendrils as I didn't pay attention to that but otherwise I would think everything else checks out. I have seen what appears to be the calousa grape before. There's actually one on the rock pile with that other muscadine I mentioned before. Distinctive difference in the leaves and bark of the vines for sure. I do happen to have pics of the pink grape itself but not the vine they came from. You definitely have more knowledge than I do obviously but let me know your thoughts after seeing these pics.

[Galatians522]

Beautiful grapes there. They look just like Calusa grapes to me, but Calusa grapes look like a pink muscadine. I thought I had found a pink muscadine the first time I ever saw one. There is a lot of misinformation about Florida wild grapes and even some herbarium specimines are mislabeled in my opinion. Check the vine for the forked tendrils. That is the most reliable way. The other charicteristics are variable. I see some with rusty felt, some with white, and some with almost none. They can even hybridize with other bunch grapes where the habitats over lap. If you are absolutely certain that the vine has single tendrils then you have something very unique. If they fork I'm 98% certain that its a very nice specimine of Calusa grape.

[D-Grower]

I'll check the vine out. Might have to wait until active growth begins or there's ripening grapes. It's entwined with other grapes and without active growth or grapes I don't think I'll be able to tell them apart. Once they start growing I can check for forked tendrils but if I cannot find any I'll have to wait for the grapes and take a pic of the vine bark and leaves. I'd like to verify for sure incase I did find something unique. Wanted to flag tape the vine so I could tell it apart and try to root some to put in the yard assuming it was a muscadine. Never did though.

[Galatians522]

Hey D, I came accross an article that might interest you and thought I would give this thread a bump. It looks like University of Arkansas researchers have been growing muscadines from hardwood cuttings. Success rate depends on cultivar, cutting size (bigger is better), and time of year (November being the best moth to take the cuttings).

https://smallfruits.org/2021/10/optimization-of-a-rooting-protocol-for-hardwood-cuttings-of-muscadine-grapes/

On another note, did you ever get a chance to identify your pink grape vine? Here is a pic of some Calusa grapes I picked back in June--they ripen pretty early in the season. You can compare to the two store bought green grapes at the top of the picture. Also, there are some leaves that got flipped over so you can see the felty underside.

[Altrexy]

Do you guys think those grapes would do well in the far south homestead area? I’m really interested in growing grapes but I have exactly zero experience

[Galatians522]

Do you guys think those grapes would do well in the far south homestead area? I’m really interested in growing grapes but I have exactly zero experience

I don't know how muscadines do that far south. They do fine here in central Florida. The Calusa grape in my picture is a wild grape native to the peninsular part of the state including your area. So, yes it would do well down there. Its big, but its not really a fresh eating grape. Most of them are pretty tart. So, I use it for juice. I think the juice is good, but it has a wild grape flavor that not everyone will appreciate. In the past, people have posted pics of Tari's Burgundy growing well down there. Its a hybrid grape that has Calusa grape in its genetics. Its origin is not known for sure, but I believe it's one of Joseph Fennell's hybrids from 100 years ago that survived and got renamed. The trouble with Teri's Burgundy is that its hard to find a source to purchase the vine. I finally found someone here that has one in their back yard. But, they have not respinded to the note I left on their door.