Author Topic: Is Vietnamese White the best pollinator for other dragonfruit cvs?  (Read 1639 times)

Jose Spain

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Hi,

I've seen a couple of times in this forum people commenting that Vietnamese White is a very good pollinator if not the best they know. I thought Sugar Dragon was the best one but know I have my doubts. Is it worth to get Vietnamese White as pollinator?

I  noticed that pollinating with some varieties give you bigger fruits than with other, for example my old H. undatus that give small, mild and white flesh fruits makes JC01 and AB get really big. The problem is that it not produce a lot of flowers and although I freeze polen, I think it wont be enough once all my varieties start producing.

Thanks

Jose Spain

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Re: Is Vietnamese White the best pollinator for other dragonfruit cvs?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2019, 03:54:06 PM »
An one additional question, Vietnamese Jaina White is the same than Vietnamese White?

spaugh

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Re: Is Vietnamese White the best pollinator for other dragonfruit cvs?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2019, 04:02:08 PM »
Sugar dragons taste better, I would use it if you are space limited. 
Brad Spaugh

Jose Spain

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Re: Is Vietnamese White the best pollinator for other dragonfruit cvs?
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2019, 01:36:24 PM »
Thanks Brad,

Thing is that S8 is not a fast grower, quite on the contrary, at least for me. I do have a white Thai variety I didn't pay much attention so far and I think I'll give it a chance now and see how it performs as pollinator. Also I have a friend offering me this 'golden dragon' variety that is nothing but a yellow skin undatus, I wasn't planning to plant it because flavor is nothing special most likely, but if all these undatus share to some point their benefits as pollinators maybe it's worth a try after all.

spaugh

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Re: Is Vietnamese White the best pollinator for other dragonfruit cvs?
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2019, 02:58:19 PM »
S8 is not a slow grower at all.  Im growing a lot of types all in a row east to west all getting full 12hrs of sun facing south.  Pretty much every type grows the same or very similar rate.  I have more S8 plants than other types and they all grow quite nicely.  Its got a hard exterior that resists cold and heat damage.  The only fault I can see woth it is the fruits are small otherwise its easily the best one Im growing.
Brad Spaugh

Jose Spain

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Re: Is Vietnamese White the best pollinator for other dragonfruit cvs?
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2019, 03:42:36 PM »
Then you are confirming the suspicions I had since I planted mine last year: at the base of the plant, in the union between the first short section I planted and the long stem that grew from it, the joint is turned like 90º or even more. I was afraid that that angle was preventing the normal circulation of the sap. Your experience proves that most likely that's the case because other varieties in the same spot like HC or CC are growing like crazies, so I will cut next spring the stem by that twist and replant it so the plant grows straight. Thanks again!!

spaugh

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Re: Is Vietnamese White the best pollinator for other dragonfruit cvs?
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2019, 04:24:28 PM »
I doubt that is a problem but maybe.  Hard to say without seeing it.  The DF vines bend over the top of the supports and get loaded with weight and dont seem to slow down at all from bent joints.  As long as the central vein is intact they seem to be fine. 

Is the S8 plant sharing root space with other plants?  Was it planted after the others?  One thing I noticed is you can't put a new cutting into same rootzone as larger plants.  The roots DF are like a big sponge and quickly crowd out their container or planting area.  Once theres mature plants on a support you cant add a new cutting. 

Other than that, I havent noticed much difference in growth rates between cultivars if everything else is equal. 

Anyway S8 is a great DF, you should not get rid of it.  Its the one Im propogating most of to plant more here.
Brad Spaugh

Rannman

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Re: Is Vietnamese White the best pollinator for other dragonfruit cvs?
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2019, 04:38:12 AM »
I don’t find that one particular pollinator is better than any other in terms of achieving fruit set. I find that varieties like Vietnamese White and Sugar Dragon are the most preferred pollinators due to the amount of flowers they produce on a regular basis, and the amount of pollen produced by each flower. Some varieties I grow produce little or no pollen, but the small amount that they can produce will pollinate other varieties successfully. As long as the varieties being pollinated are different, there shouldn’t be a problem.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 04:46:10 AM by Rannman »

Jose Spain

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Re: Is Vietnamese White the best pollinator for other dragonfruit cvs?
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2019, 05:09:50 AM »
I doubt that is a problem but maybe.  Hard to say without seeing it.  The DF vines bend over the top of the supports and get loaded with weight and dont seem to slow down at all from bent joints.  As long as the central vein is intact they seem to be fine. 

Is the S8 plant sharing root space with other plants?  Was it planted after the others?  One thing I noticed is you can't put a new cutting into same rootzone as larger plants.  The roots DF are like a big sponge and quickly crowd out their container or planting area.  Once theres mature plants on a support you cant add a new cutting. 


Here some pics so you can see clearly what I'm talking about, the situation doesn't look right to me already, but with such a twist I'm afraid that as both stems grow thicker they could strangle (more) the cambium:








At the top the Sugar Dragon measures ~2 meters (~6,5 feet) with not branching still, it was planted in June 2018, the same day that Cosmic Charlie and Halley's Comet,in the same spot, with the same soil, same fertilizing and watering program, S8 is 2 meters and not branching yet while CC and HC grew like pitayas normally do, with a lot of new branches and both gave flowers this year, actually HC is right now with 4 fruits.

Here the top of S8 and in my hand a Connie Mayer I planted on May 26, 6 months ago, is almost as high as the S8 and still growing.



CC and HC are also both growing right now:



So something must be wrong with the S8 when is growing so much slower than the rest under the same conditions. I'm thinking of cutting in spring by that sagging joint, let the plant start over a new, straight stem taking profit of the original root system that is already in the ground, and move the old long stem to root in another spot, with a good mix, since anyway I was planning to propagate this variety. All this I'd do in spring.

Jose Spain

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Re: Is Vietnamese White the best pollinator for other dragonfruit cvs?
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2019, 05:23:10 AM »
I don’t find that one particular pollinator is better than any other in terms of achieving fruit set. I find that varieties like Vietnamese White and Sugar Dragon are the most preferred pollinators due to the amount of flowers they produce on a regular basis, and the amount of pollen produced by each flower. Some varieties I grow produce little or no pollen, but the small amount that they can produce will pollinate other varieties successfully. As long as the varieties being pollinated are different, there shouldn’t be a problem.

At the beginning I had thought the same based in my short experience with this genus but then I started to notice some differences in fruit size and there are indeed some studies pointing to different % of interfertility between varieties, if that differences are really noticeable at backyard growing scale is another thing. I'm trying to write down with which varieties I'm polinizing my flowers, how old is the polen (which I freeze at -20ºC after drying it for 24h) and how much weight give the fruit. I think the jury is still out since we are dealing with so many different (and new) cvs, so I guess that we'll see with the time if there is really a huge difference beyond the amount of flowers and polen that a particular variety produces. Thanks for sharing you experience. 
« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 05:35:29 AM by Jose Spain »

Rannman

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Re: Is Vietnamese White the best pollinator for other dragonfruit cvs?
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2019, 06:06:11 AM »
If that was my S-8, I would cut it back and let it start fresh.
Then plant the cutting.👍

spaugh

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Re: Is Vietnamese White the best pollinator for other dragonfruit cvs?
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2019, 07:08:44 PM »
Leave it to grow.  If theres others planted close to it, their roots will dominate this one and never allow it to grow properly.  Its at the top of the support almost, just let it get over the support then cut it and it will branch out. 

Heres a pic of a support with 1 year old S8 cuttings.  You can see the other supports in the background have same growth rate.  I grow the cuttings in pots until they are 2 meters tall then plant them on the supports in April.  That way all plants start with nice root system and equal size and none get dominated by others. 



« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 07:14:48 PM by spaugh »
Brad Spaugh

Jose Spain

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Re: Is Vietnamese White the best pollinator for other dragonfruit cvs?
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2019, 07:33:55 AM »
Thanks Brad I'll do so then and see if it finally takes others' pace. I have another S8 grafted into an undatus and grew much faster.