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Messages - K-Rimes

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For stuff like stone fruits on a small property, I really recommend doing some cocktailing to get more variety on one tree, and that extends your season nicely as well, without overwhelming you with lots of the same fruit. You should definitely have one of those for Berkeley.

With many sub-tropicals, they seem to produce pretty well with some shade, but you'll often get really long internode spacing and lanky trees that search for light. Starfruits, guavas, jaboticabas, and some eugenias do pretty well with some shade, maybe even better in some cases.

True tropicals like the heat they get from being in the full sun, and I try to give them as much sun as I can offer. When you see tropical growers with dense fruit forests, you have to consider that they don't need to worry about cool temps in the winter where we do. If you get too dense in zone pushing environment, you will suffer with mould, fungal issues, and generally see decline if it's too thick.

I know it's hard, but try to pick the ones you really want to give the best zones to and prioritize their success.

Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / WTB Dr White cherimoya scions
« on: March 03, 2024, 01:45:06 PM »
Looking for Dr White scions and any other of the top tier cherimoya scions. Would like two of a few cultivars, have a few seedling trees to work here but don't need many, about 8 scions total.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Plants are budding up...
« on: March 03, 2024, 12:08:42 PM »
Looking good Kevin! I am jealous. It's been rainy and cool here and so none of my Brazilian stuff is budding up quite yet. It looks as though the chance of frost is now over though, and I can start working on fertilizing my sub-tropicals.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fruit trees I gave up on
« on: March 02, 2024, 11:52:56 PM »
My loquat tree is slated to go to make room for my jujube. I bought the loquat tree because I heard it was one of preppers fruit trees. when the tree fruited last year, the fruits tasted so sour it was disappointing.

Highly recommend topworking it, or trying them when they are only dark orange. Loquat is an absolute keeper and there are some excellent varieties. Cannot fathom replacing it with jujube personally...

Loquat is a keeper because it is the only tree that ripe in early spring.  A good cultivar tastes great.

I would not recommend planting jujube because of suckers and invasive roots.  It is worse than bamboo.

Update: I decided to keep the loquat tree after reading comments from K-Rimes and seng. Today, my wife picked about a dozen of fruits off the tree and they tasted so sweet and flavorful. The tree is a keeper now.
Thanks folks.

That's awesome it worked out for you! Great job persevering and keeping the tree!

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Florida Natural Farming?
« on: February 29, 2024, 01:48:23 PM »
personally i spend a lot of time watering here in socal, a ridiculous amount of time, so i really really love the idea of having mango trees produce more fruit than i can possibly eat without me having to worry about watering them

FL gets regular rain, even in their summers. Ok, maybe a few dry weeks at a time, but you simply cannot compare CA climate to FL. August is FL's rainiest month, that is CA's driest and hottest. You can stop watering your mangoes during the winter in CA, in fact it's recommended, but supplemental irrigation for mangoes in CA is a requirement in my opinion.

Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: The Fig Hunter
« on: February 29, 2024, 01:21:42 PM »
I mean, killer business idea. Drive around cutting up wild fig trees ($0) and then selling them for $10 a stick.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Just a mini Rant about Youtube
« on: February 29, 2024, 01:12:49 PM »
the two tropical fruit guys i watch religiously are flying fox fruit and florida natural farming.  fnf, on the other hand, doesn't have quite the same charm, but i love that he's always reading relevant scholarly papers.  and his garden is the closest to my dream garden.

I used to follow fnf but haven't visited in a long time. I don't think he gets around much because he hasn't compared his mango trees to those of others. Mango is about the easiest fruit to grow in Florida but his trees look highly stressed with very small twisted leaves showing deficiencies. Many of the leaves are growing in strange horizontal angles. He is getting some flowers but admits to poor fruit set.  Anyone growing mango will quickly see something is wrong, but he seems blinded to it. Ive tried before to make productive comments but he is recalcitrant and shuns people just like he left this forum.

To see what I mean have a look at his latest video and compare to your own mango trees. I wish he would be open to discussion but that never happened.

I appreciate people who experiment like FnF and share their findings, but it seems many don't actually want to discuss and accept their methods aren't as effective. To be able to stand behind your ideas and principles is great, to a point. I have had many theories about fruit tree growing which have been thoroughly disproven and I accept I was wrong to the best of my ability.

YouTube is much like any other social media. The more likes, follows, shares and comments you get, the further your video goes. It will also take you further and further down the rabbit hole of whatever content you interact with. YouTubers are often motivated by this rather than any core principle or scientific knowledge. If their goofy video about soil health gets 1mn views, guess what, you're going to see another... And another... And another.

Maybe you've seen the "Biggest Little Farm" movie which was received with much fanfare. They spin a story about how their little farm has been totally profitable and how they're living well off all these permaculture based techniques... But some folks peeled back the layers and it was much the same as, "With a small loan of $1mn dollars, I was able to build an empire." They are consistently infused with substantial money from outside sources (family, movie, etc) and the farm does not pay the bills.

We have one of the largest corn farming industries in the world in the US, but it is largely made possible through heavy government subsidy. Profitably farming is crazy impressive, and rare. Kudos to anyone who can pull it off.

I should probably be making some videos about my garden and shit soil, which is ancient beach sand. I've gone from zero loam to about 3" over the last few years, who knows, maybe I'll make it big on YouTube!

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Sabra Jaboticaba Not growing well.
« on: February 29, 2024, 11:32:39 AM »
You are going in the right direction with what you are doing. The root system looked terrible in the old soil and photos, but looked better than I thought rinsed off.

You can water with RO or AC water, but AC water is distilled and will pull all the minerals and fertilizer out of your soil, so use it sparingly unless you are amending the water with fert and mineral supplements.

A lot of us use Hollytone or Osmocote (I actually prefer this these days), and it works great. You need to use very mild doses till your tree is growing well again and is full of leaves. If that is not available to you, I would recommend a very mild slow release fertiizer locally with a small dose of sulphur pellets. Again, if not available, aged chicken manure, and aged compost on top of the soil.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Issues With Eugenias Post-Sprouting
« on: February 28, 2024, 08:25:02 PM »
I sprouted a ton of eugenias this winter in my grow tent under a fairly intense 240w grow light. I don't think light is the issue, I think it's humidity. I used domes this year and they look fabulous. I suffered the same issue as you did, and I still mostly do, when trying to sprout in my greenhouse.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What is wrong with my Red Jaboticaba?
« on: February 26, 2024, 02:58:50 PM »
Looks like you are growing them in Zone 10... Cold should not be an issue?


Waterlogged + cold is what does this IMO. We get down into the high 30s at times in, even in 10a CA, and if it's soaked and that cold out, that seems to be what does it. In my case, I left the majority of my jabos outdoors not in the greenhouse and of course can't protect them from the rain, of which we've had a lot in CA this year, and then get down into the mid or even low 30s and even my grimals are crying like this.

I do think a very small pot can help, especially if the tree is fully rooted into it, because it can drink up the water faster.

The suggestions to down pot here are sound, as is free draining medium, as is cold damage. It's all of the above in varying amounts.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What is wrong with my Red Jaboticaba?
« on: February 26, 2024, 02:09:12 PM »
That is classic cold damage. All of my jabos look like this outdoors, then they pop back to healthy again when spring comes. You can't go wrong with changing your soil to a very free draining medium, and minimizing the pot size though.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Two one gallon pawpaws have shipped . . .
« on: February 24, 2024, 05:12:13 PM »
I like to get the shock over all at once personally. If its going in the ground I just go ahead and get it in there, especially if its cool out.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Eugenia Cross Species Grafting
« on: February 23, 2024, 11:49:36 PM »
My Neilta seedling from Kevin Jones is probably the best tropical cherry Ive eaten.  I had several last year in its first year producing and all were large fruit and excellent flavor.  The Garnet seedling was also a solid fruit, but if memory serves correctly, one level down from Neilta but better than both my in ground Exotica CORG seedlings. I was planning to graft them all (with orange CORG) to my 6ft, in ground seedling CORG that rarely produces a full size fruit. I only get runt fruit with no seeds with the occasional full sized, blah tasting fruit on this tree.

I planted a Kevin Jones Nelita at my office and it also produced full size fruit effortlessly on its first try. Good flavor, but not as good as my Exotica seedling. There is for sure some variance in seedlings off the same tree. Those runt fruits are interesting. I had only those for a few years off my Exotica and tree and now it produces the biggest of all my varieties. Are all your CORG close by to each other?

I really gotta come visit!

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Eugenia Cross Species Grafting
« on: February 23, 2024, 07:33:35 PM »
I regularly graft Garnet (Calycinia) onto Nelita with much success.
Nelita fruit is a prolific producer of small coffee-bean-like seeds which readily sprout for rootstock.


I ponder that Nelita is a cross of CORG and Calycina. Calycina has definitively drier and narrower leaves than CORG does if it's the real deal.

It seems that Calycina and CORG should be totally compatible, they're nearly identical other than very small details, and in Brazil were merged into the same species recently.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Eugenia Cross Species Grafting
« on: February 23, 2024, 01:41:14 PM »
I've only gotten a few fruits from each but the orange ones were excellent and the red ones very bland.  Might be luck of the draw with seedling genetics.   I actually have two orange COTRGs and when the second one fruits I'll have a better sample size.

If it was your first fruiting, that would explain it, especially if they were small or seedless. Do you have two types for cross pollination? I didn't get proper fruit set till I had a variety of them flowering at the same time, and they were mature. Funny, I have had a few orange CORG fruits and didn't find them outstanding in any way. I hope to get a bunch more this year.

What size were your CORG fruits?

Here's a selection of mine, but I think these are mostly El Dorado

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Two one gallon pawpaws have shipped . . .
« on: February 23, 2024, 01:09:11 PM »
Would echo the other posters that you should put this in ground ASAP. I would agree with others that a bit of shade will be appreciated by the plant. I don't think Floridians should shy away from them, MarkLee has fruited them in deep south CA which under 100 chill hours. It's worth a shot!

I have a pawpaw seedling.
The leaves burn faster than cherimoya.
Im hiding it under an avocado tree.

I have had this issue with mine here in CA too, they really hate the low humidity 100+ weather I frequently get, but I hear they take it just fine up in Los Gatos where there is a commercial orchard. I hope this year they finally settle in, a lot of CA growers have said it takes several years for them to really find their feet.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Eugenia Cross Species Grafting
« on: February 23, 2024, 12:11:03 PM »
I hope you have success on the subsequent tries!

I have a decent size COTRG now that I will probably trash because the orange type is so much better.  I am just giving it a few more crops to be certain.  If I can use it as a multi-eugenia rootstock it might be worth keeping around for that.

Orange CORG better than CORG? I am.... Surprised. Get some selected varieties, I think CORG is the best eugenia in my yard.

In order of fruit quality I have:

1 . My rootstock from Exotica
2. ScottR
3. Garnet from Kevin Jones
4. Ben's Beaut
5. El Dorado (unique and tasty flavor, just makes lots of seeds per fruit)

I do hear people occasionally get insipid seedlings. That may be what you have? Strongly recommend top working it. I can spare some scions this year for sure.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Eugenia Cross Species Grafting
« on: February 23, 2024, 11:44:18 AM »
Any idea what the success rate of grafting self-type is?  Like regular COTRG onto itself.  Maybe eugenias have low take rate?

I am basically 100% success rate with CORG onto itself. I'd rank it one of the easiest grafting fruit trees in my yard. I have tried calycina onto CORG a few times, with no takes, but interestingly calycina to calcycina has always been 100% for me as well when I've sourced scion from other members. I kind of gave up on the calycina onto CORG cause I have a really big one of each. There wasn't much point. There is no doubt that they should be compatible though.

Orange CORG to CORG should be compatible, I'll go try it again today. I think ScottR used some of my orange scion on his CORG with success.

I should also report that I tried out campomanesia cross grafting with:

Hirsuta x Guazumifolia = didn't work

Campomanesias seem really hard to graft because of how thin the cambium layer is, it's paper thin compared to most. The same is true for many eugenias, but I do think any peeling bark species are more forgiving.

That's Spaugh, search for his posts, he also has some good stuff on YouTube

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Eugenia Cross Species Grafting
« on: February 22, 2024, 06:33:47 PM »
I was pretty disappointed that none worked, honestly. I did find that most psidium is compatible, though, so that was a good find. I'm going to do a lot more psidium grafting this year.

Guineense x Guajava is growing stoutly this year.

I purchased HLG lights for a grow tent, and after a lot of research decided to go for quantum board style LED lights from Alibaba, specifically from Meiju. They both have 10s of thousands of hours on them by now.

I've found absolutely no difference in effectiveness between the two boards. I tried pulling the HLG out and ran 2x 240w Meijus for a run. Identical results. I have 2x Meiju, 1x HLG. I wouldn't bother spending triple on the HLG again.

Arrived at my house for about $170 delivered.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Eugenia Cross Species Grafting
« on: February 22, 2024, 02:02:50 PM »
None of these worked. The repanda on pitanga had some buds, but probably just stored energy in the scion.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Moving a Guava
« on: February 21, 2024, 07:33:05 PM »
Echoing other posters, guavas are pretty tough. If you have to reduce the roots by 50% to get it out, cut back the canopy the same amount. You'll be gravy in a few years. I've hacked up many guavas over the years and they always come back firing.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Ice cream bean questions
« on: February 21, 2024, 05:41:16 PM »
They absolutely don't do frost, and will defoliate and suffer in the 32-40f range.

Hmm... My greenhouse spends a lot of the winter in that range, though never below freezing. I count 38 days below 40F so far this winter, with a winter low of 33.6F. I guess I'll give it a try at least, with low expectations.

I would say 35f is where I start to see them become uncomfortable, but they take it here and there. I do have a seedling in ground in truly the worst soil on my property, fully exposed, and it has done very well this year with no protection, probably visited 34.5f. Last year it completely defoliated with a light frost, about 30f, this year it's still looking good. It has been a very mild winter, though.

I think if you have good soil and can get it growing robustly, it can shake off the cold each spring well enough. You should be fine drymifolia!

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Ice cream bean questions
« on: February 21, 2024, 01:11:02 PM »
I had a very large fruiting one in a pot that put it in reverse and died back eventually, I think due to girdling roots. I since planted it in ground, and it has not been fairing well in my 9b climate. Last year it got sent back to about 2" above ground from frost. It was previously nearly 6'.

They absolutely don't do frost, and will defoliate and suffer in the 32-40f range.

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