Author Topic: Are black and white sapote worth it  (Read 4035 times)

SplorKeLZ

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Are black and white sapote worth it
« on: February 18, 2024, 09:09:27 PM »
I would be growing in a pot indoors, do they taste good, how long untill fruit and any other info

brian

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2024, 09:31:52 PM »
A white sapote seems like a good candidate to try.  A grafted one will fruit quite a bit at a modest size.  Mine made more fruit than I could eat at 4ft tall in a 20gal container.

I dunno how small a grafted black sapote can fruit as I only have seedling.  A seedling one is probably going to need to be 6ft tall or more, somewhat cumbersome indoors

xesoteryc

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2024, 09:44:49 PM »
A white sapote seems like a good candidate to try.  A grafted one will fruit quite a bit at a modest size.  Mine made more fruit than I could eat at 4ft tall in a 20gal container.

I dunno how small a grafted black sapote can fruit as I only have seedling.  A seedling one is probably going to need to be 6ft tall or more, somewhat cumbersome indoors

Can I see a pic? Fascinating

brian

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2024, 09:52:41 PM »

Jaboticaba45

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2024, 09:52:58 PM »
I find them to be both mid-tier fruits, and wouldn't grow them unless I was in a tropical climate and had space.
Black sapote is underwhelming and so is white sapote too.
Now, there are many people who grow white sapote here, so it would be easy to connect with scions etc.
Just the fruit didn't do it for me, when I can grow mangos and lychees easily.
But pluses of black sapote is that it is a winter crop in FL, so it helps balance things out, and white sapote is sweet w a caramel taste. But not good enough for me.

K-Rimes

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2024, 10:09:50 PM »
White sapote is superior to black sapote, and I think the former is definitely worth growing. Black sapote, especially the named varieties, is pretty good but bland. I wouldn't devote the space to it unless I had lots. I would make space for white sapote, and have several in ground at home which I'll top work.

SplorKeLZ

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2024, 10:38:54 PM »
since these are the only two fruits with the sapote name i have not tried, i think i will wait till i go back to mexico or costa rica, or my local asian markets have some. i am getting a lot of white sapote support so i will consider it. pot proficiency is a plus for white sapote to!

Pau

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2024, 10:42:49 PM »
White sapote is an amazing fruit. See if someone here can sell u few fruits to try.

SDPirate

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2024, 01:27:41 AM »
I can't comment on black sapote but white sapote is good.  The ones I had flavor a bit like pear with some mild tropical notes. 

Pau

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2024, 11:40:38 AM »
I can't comment on black sapote but white sapote is good.  The ones I had flavor a bit like pear with some mild tropical notes.

Mine taste like vanilla, caramel, very sweet, smooth soft texture like well ripened avocado.

K-Rimes

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2024, 12:08:41 PM »
since these are the only two fruits with the sapote name i have not tried, i think i will wait till i go back to mexico or costa rica, or my local asian markets have some. i am getting a lot of white sapote support so i will consider it. pot proficiency is a plus for white sapote to!

Fair warning that most of the seedling white sapote I've tried has been underwhelming. What you find, even at a farmer's market, can often be just ok cause it's some random seedling. Now, a selected cultivar picked and ripened to perfection? White sapote is a keeper!

Order some black sapote from Lara Fruit Farms. Some sellers here will ship you white sapote too, just keep an eye out. Bonus: you'll also get seeds

CarolinaZone

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2024, 12:28:21 PM »
It all depends on what you like. Are you a collector like me or a connoisseur? I have heard this and I believe it" Maybe you haven't tried a good one." I have had an excellent white sapote. I have not had an excellent black sapote. Because I have had a substandard white sapote I believe there must be better tasting black sapotes out there. I also think your expectations effect what you experience. If you are looking for something that tastes like chocolate it will disappoint. Black sapote tastes more like a mix of raisin and molasses than anything else in my opinion because that is what a dried persimmon tastes like. White sapote does not taste like caramel to me and neither abiu. Maybe I havent had a good one  ;D

drymifolia

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2024, 12:43:28 PM »
I agree with the consensus that black sapote is not a top-tier fruit. But when I was a mostly-homeless kid in Miami, black sapote was near the top of my list in winter, because they are very filling, taste ok, and most people who have trees don't pick them so there were plenty for a hungry urban forager to collect, especially since the trees get huge. They make such a mess that sometimes people thanked me for taking some to make their cleanup slightly easier.

I've had white sapote that was delicious, and others that were unpleasant to eat. Highly variable, but I'm sure the named cultivars that people praise would all be pretty good fruit at least.

My favorite of the "sapotes" (a name used for many different unrelated soft fruit) is the sapodilla, but they are also highly variable in flavor and especially texture.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2024, 12:46:50 PM by drymifolia »

SplorKeLZ

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2024, 12:45:31 PM »
It all depends on what you like. Are you a collector like me or a connoisseur? I have heard this and I believe it" Maybe you haven't tried a good one." I have had an excellent white sapote. I have not had an excellent black sapote. Because I have had a substandard white sapote I believe there must be better tasting black sapotes out there. I also think your expectations effect what you experience. If you are looking for something that tastes like chocolate it will disappoint. Black sapote tastes more like a mix of raisin and molasses than anything else in my opinion because that is what a dried persimmon tastes like. White sapote does not taste like caramel to me and neither abiu. Maybe I havent had a good one  ;D
i am a little bit of a collector/connoisseur, i think i should defiantly know which variety i am buying if i do buy one

BigIslandGrower

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2024, 08:38:42 PM »
Black Sapote-No.

White Sapote-If you can obtain a quality, grafted cultivar-Yes.

brian

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2024, 09:44:26 PM »
My white sapote is a grafted suebell, supposedly, and I think the fruit is gross.  However, Kaz said it doesn't look right for suebell and might be something else.  It definitely is grafted, not a seedling.  I am looking forward to trying more white sapote types.

Based on my very limited experience so far I prefer black sapote

FigoVelo

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2024, 10:29:06 PM »
Gross? Can you elaborate?

Roman

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2024, 11:58:03 PM »
White sapotes are easily one of my favorite fruit. To qualify that statement, I say that as someone who's eaten some amazing cherimoyas with out-of-this-world sweetness and pineapple/banana/bubblegum flavors that were grown in Temecula, California. I'd rank the best white sapote fruit I've had right up there with the best cherimoyas I've eaten.

I got some white sapote from the same fruit farm in Temecula that I bought the cherimoyas from and I really, really enjoyed them. I believe they came from Vernon and McDill trees. They were super sweet and actually had some complexity to them that's lacking in fruit from "Suebelle" or seedling white sapotes. McDill had a peachy and pear-like taste with tropical notes, while Vernon had a caramel/crème brûlée flavor. The fruits that I ate were very creamy and very rich.

The fruit from the common Suebelle cultivar of white sapote are decent, but I feel most folks would probably find them pretty "meh". I personally feel that if folks ate a Suebelle fruit for their first experience of eating white sapote, it might turn them off of white sapote altogether and dissuade them from even trying it again.

Fruit from white sapote seedlings can vary from garbage/barely edible (can be insipid or have bitter skin or bitterness in the pulp/flesh), to "whatever" (similar to Suebelle - a one dimensional, unspectacular, simple, sweet flavor), and can rarely be amazing (can be extremely sweet and have one or more flavors that resembles peach, pear, banana, "tropical", lemony). Harvey the "Figaholic" has grown some very good seedlings (such as his seedling "B3", AKA "Delta Gold"). Fruit from superior cultivars can also have great texture - they can be very buttery or creamy without being mushy.

If someone has only tried mediocre white sapote fruit from Suebelle or seedlings, I can totally understand them rating them as mid-tier or even straight up disliking them. Kind of like if someone ate cruddy store bought figs for their first fig experience. In contrast to cruddy store bought figs, an optimally ripe fig straight off the tree of an excellent variety that's grown in a hot climate can potentially be a "Top 5" fruit (in my opinion). I feel something similar applies to white sapote - the fruit has to be optimally ripe and from trees of good or excellent cultivars.
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johnb51

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2024, 12:13:37 AM »
I find them to be both mid-tier fruits, and wouldn't grow them unless I was in a tropical climate and had space.
Black sapote is underwhelming and so is white sapote too.
Now, there are many people who grow white sapote here, so it would be easy to connect with scions etc.
Just the fruit didn't do it for me, when I can grow mangos and lychees easily.
But pluses of black sapote is that it is a winter crop in FL, so it helps balance things out, and white sapote is sweet w a caramel taste. But not good enough for me.
Just how much white sapote have you actually eaten?  Are you really qualified to comment on this fruit?
John

SplorKeLZ

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2024, 12:53:36 AM »
White sapotes are easily one of my favorite fruit. To qualify that statement, I say that as someone who's eaten some amazing cherimoyas with out-of-this-world sweetness and pineapple/banana/bubblegum flavors that were grown in Temecula, California. I'd rank the best white sapote fruit I've had right up there with the best cherimoyas I've eaten.

I got some white sapote from the same fruit farm in Temecula that I bought the cherimoyas from and I really, really enjoyed them. I believe they came from Vernon and McDill trees. They were super sweet and actually had some complexity to them that's lacking in fruit from "Suebelle" or seedling white sapotes. McDill had a peachy and pear-like taste with tropical notes, while Vernon had a caramel/crème brûlée flavor. The fruits that I ate were very creamy and very rich.

The fruit from the common Suebelle cultivar of white sapote are decent, but I feel most folks would probably find them pretty "meh". I personally feel that if folks ate a Suebelle fruit for their first experience of eating white sapote, it might turn them off of white sapote altogether and dissuade them from even trying it again.

Fruit from white sapote seedlings can vary from garbage/barely edible (can be insipid or have bitter skin or bitterness in the pulp/flesh), to "whatever" (similar to Suebelle - a one dimensional, unspectacular, simple, sweet flavor), and can rarely be amazing (can be extremely sweet and have one or more flavors that resembles peach, pear, banana, "tropical", lemony). Harvey the "Figaholic" has grown some very good seedlings (such as his seedling "B3", AKA "Delta Gold"). Fruit from superior cultivars can also have great texture - they can be very buttery or creamy without being mushy.

If someone has only tried mediocre white sapote fruit from Suebelle or seedlings, I can totally understand them rating them as mid-tier or even straight up disliking them. Kind of like if someone ate cruddy store bought figs for their first fig experience. In contrast to cruddy store bought figs, an optimally ripe fig straight off the tree of an excellent variety that's grown in a hot climate can potentially be a "Top 5" fruit (in my opinion). I feel something similar applies to white sapote - the fruit has to be optimally ripe and from trees of good or excellent cultivars.
which cultivars are the best? Fruit time/quality/flavour/fruit proficiency/fruit size etc

RodneyS

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2024, 12:54:56 AM »
My Suebelle white sapote produces fruit that makes me think of lemon custard.  It's the only variety I've tasted.  I do quite like it. 

Black sapote is a Winter crop, and a prolific bearer.  Lots of fruit means lots of calories, in case SHTF.

Roman

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2024, 02:36:02 AM »
SplorKeLZ,
So far, I've tried something like 40 lbs of fruit in total, purchased from growers in Redlands (CA not FL), Somis, and Temecula. I've tried fruit from unidentified seedlings (which ranged from mediocre to excellent), Suebelle, Vernon, and McDill. Fruits from Suebelle were on the smaller side, Vernon's were medium in size, and McDill ranged from large to HUGE in size. I'd say the best ones that I've tried so far were the fruits from Vernon and McDill. The very best of the unidentified seedling fruits were pretty close in overall quality to Vernon and McDill, though.

There are a ton of named selections out here in California - almost too many to name, and many of the best ones are reported as being excellent and even superior to both Vernon and McDill. To name a few, some cultivars said to have excellent flavor include Mary Lane, Delta Gold/B3, Cuccio, Walton, and Lemon Gold. There's also Younghans' Gold, unique in that it's a Floridian selection from Seymour Younghans that stacks up with the best Californian selections according to Kaz (sc4001992). There's another Floridian selection called "Campbell", a seedling planted by Dr. Carl Campbell of Fairchild Tropical Botanical Garden in 1975. There's been some hype around this cultivar, but also some reports that its fruit aren't as mind-blowing as was purported to be.

I have a couple Suebelle trees (which might not even be the real Suebelle, more on that below), a Campbell, a McDill, and a Cuccio. My trees are still small and haven't held on to any fruits yet, so I can't speak on growth habits/characteristics - other than that Suebelle is indeed dwarfing/semi-dwarf, and that McDill loves to set a crap ton of flowers even at just 3 feet in height. I'd suggest asking Bush2Beach or Kaz (sc4001992) about the characteristics of the different cultivars, since they're the forum's resident white sapote aficionados.


Rodney,
I've seen reports on this forum and elsewhere that some folks find Suebelle to be quite tasty. I remember reading that there were actually two distinct cultivars floating around in the nursery trade back in the day that were both being sold as "Suebelle". There's the original, true Suebelle that was selected by Susan Hubbell in the 1931. Then there's "Neysa" AKA "False Suebelle". It could be possible that the "Suebelle" fruit that I had might have been from one of the older mislabeled Neysa trees, since some folks who apparently have the "True Suebelle" claim that it does indeed taste quite good.

I'm not even sure myself if my own Suebelle trees were propagated from genuine Suebelle budwood or with scions taken from the Neysa trees. They have the fuzzy undersides on their leaves that's typical of Suebelle trees, but there's basically zero info on the internet about Neysa so as to confirm whether or it not it's also dwarfing in growth habit and also has the fuzziness on the undersides of its leaves. It might be possible that Neysa does have those qualities, since it was apparently similar enough to the real deal to be incorrectly labeled and sold as Suebelle in the past and (apparently still today).

If the fruit I tried were actually from Neysa, at the very least the fruit themselves were dead ringers for the description of the fruit from the real Suebelle: small-medium fruit, green-to-yellow skin, asymmetrical. The fruit were sweet and had a hint of acidity, but didn't stack up to the better white sapote fruits I've tried. I remember that the possibly Suebelle/possibly Neysa fruit that I tried had a slight bitterness in the skin and turned pretty musky/funky when past optimal ripeness.  Both Vernon and McDill were much better in flavor and were much larger in size, had zero funkiness, and basically no detectable bitterness in any part of the fruit.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2024, 02:39:56 AM by Roman »
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brian

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2024, 08:47:36 AM »
Gross? Can you elaborate?

Off-tasting, like an overripe fruit that is beginning to spoil.  But they were all like that, tree ripened or counter ripened, I tried at various stages. 

I don't want to let my one experience speak to the whole variety, though.  I hear they can be quite good and I'll be happy to try another one from somebody else's tree :)

Jaboticaba45

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2024, 09:08:51 AM »
I find them to be both mid-tier fruits, and wouldn't grow them unless I was in a tropical climate and had space.
Black sapote is underwhelming and so is white sapote too.
Now, there are many people who grow white sapote here, so it would be easy to connect with scions etc.
Just the fruit didn't do it for me, when I can grow mangos and lychees easily.
But pluses of black sapote is that it is a winter crop in FL, so it helps balance things out, and white sapote is sweet w a caramel taste. But not good enough for me.
Just how much white sapote have you actually eaten?  Are you really qualified to comment on this fruit?
John,
I've had it several different times and tried several different varieties.
while good, it doesn't compare to the FL mangos.

greenerpasteur

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Re: Are black and white sapote worth it
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2024, 10:37:57 AM »
I didn't enjoy black sapote. I would try a few before you dedicate a space to it unless you just want to collect.

White sapote was different. It's a very tasty fruit. Remind me of a sweet avocado. I could see myself eating it more often especially as a smoothie.

I heard it's also very low maintenance and productive so that's a plus. I see alot of gardeners selling it for $2/lb so I don't know if would dedicated a space for it when it's so cheap.

« Last Edit: February 20, 2024, 10:40:55 AM by greenerpasteur »

 

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