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Messages - Walt

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1
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: January 22, 2023, 11:28:54 PM »
As always I'm impressed with your work/

2
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Tetraploid Citranges
« on: December 29, 2022, 08:20:56 PM »
Good information.  Thank you.

3
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Tetraploid Citranges
« on: December 29, 2022, 04:21:29 PM »
I did grad work in genetics but I was studying vegetables and grain so this might not appply to citrus.  If anyone does know the effects of tetraploidy in citrus, listen to them, not me.
In vegetables, a few species have more vitamin  C in the tetraploid than the diploid.  But generally the difference is small or none at all.
In grains, wheat, rye and barley, tetraploids tend to be slightly less cold hardy than the same variety at the diploid level.  That is for rye (Secale cereali), barley (Horeun sativa) which are normally diploid.  Wheat (Triticum species) has diploid, tetraploid, and hexaploid species.  In Triticum, we can't directly compare diploid vs higher ploidy because there has been centuries of selection for different climates so the genetics is much more important than ploidy.

So I expect the difference between diploid and tetraploid citranges to be small.  But there are a few plant families that don't follow the general rules.  So it is possible citrus don't follow these general rules.

4
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Turunji - A Citrus You Eat Like An Apple
« on: December 28, 2022, 10:19:12 AM »
Sounds like Turunji is a bit harder than some citrus on their own roots.  Or perhaps they are too often pot bound by those that sell them.  I am in the process of loosing mine I bought from Logees.  I think I'll try to save it by grafting in some extra roots using Ponciris seedlings.  Mr. Hong in Wichita KS gave me 100 Ponciris fruit last fall and they average about 30 seeds per fruit, so I have plenty to spare.  I also have seedlings from the last 2 years, more than I have scions for.
Here is where I got the idea.
https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=48828.0

5
I've never heard of it being illegal in the USA. Is there anyone here who keeps up on these things?  It's been 40 years since I was up to date on this.

6
Cold Hardy Citrus / Making new periclinal chimeras like Prague
« on: November 16, 2022, 02:09:34 PM »
A new way to make periclinal  chimeras in citrus is given here.
日 植 病 報 60: 82-88 (1994)
Ann. Phytopath. Soc. Japan 60: 82-88 (1994)
OK,  1994 isn;t new but it is new to mr,  The procass was developed to give disease resistanc in citrus by giving a good variety a coating of a disease resistant variety,  But it seems to me it might work on making good citrus varioties a coating of a cold tolerant variety like ponciris,  The publication says 1/6 of plants made this way were periclinal chimeras,
One would need to use a good varity of citrus that has nucelar seeds,  No problem finding those,
I don't expect the rresulting plants to be hardy in one 6 where I live,  But maybe zone 7 or 8?  Maybe anywhere PPrague is hardy?

7
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Stingerless bees for pollinations
« on: November 09, 2022, 08:23:25 PM »
Adding wild flower is a good idea.  But the town has been spraying for mosquitos for so many years that bringing in pollinaters is also a good idea,  Preferably native species that might become re established in the area.  An idea I just had istoget a hive and keep it most of the year on a nearby ranch.  Bring it to the orchard (breeding area) during bloom and moving it back for the rest of the year,  But I'd have to check what is being sprayed on the ranch land,  Aerial spraying is a big industry here,

8
Cold Hardy Citrus / Stingerless bees for pollinations
« on: November 07, 2022, 11:51:05 AM »
As a child and young man I kept bees.  I like them and I like honey.  But my citrus "orchard" is on the edge of town ad bees close to a population of humans seems a bad idea.  I know at least one neighbor who is allergic.  So I'm thinking of buying a start of  native stingerless bees.  I know that some temperate zone fruit orchards are using them with good results.  Are they being used successfully with citrus and other fruits?
And as a breeder who wants masses of crosses, I'd like bees to do some of my work for me.

9
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: November 07, 2022, 11:18:19 AM »
ery encouraging results.

10
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Poncirus+ x kumquat
« on: November 01, 2022, 10:36:00 AM »
https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=29541.50

Perhaps this was one of the threads that got you interested.  Though these crosses were not with P+, they could be useful.  While I haven't read of test crosses to prove it, it seems like the difference between P+ and other ponciris is a single gene.

11
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Poncirus+ x kumquat
« on: November 01, 2022, 10:11:35 AM »
Its good to have another person working on more winter hardy citrus.  Being in zone 7 I think you will get a bigger percent of survivers than Kumin in zone 6.  If vnomonee's fruit's seedlings do have trifoliate leaves, then that will jumpstart your work.   There was a thread active a while back on crosses of Ponciris and kumquat.  The discussion went that many kumquat x Ponciris hybrid seedlings lacked vigor and died young.  But some were vigorous and grew well.  So don't get discouraged if your success rate is low at first.

12
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Seedy finger limes: Is this normal
« on: October 09, 2022, 02:50:54 AM »
So are you going to be offering seeds for sale?

13
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: woodchips for heat
« on: October 04, 2022, 02:52:44 AM »
I have also heard of having compost piles in greenhouses for the added CO2.

14
Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / Re: Kinzu/Hong Kong/Fortunella hindsii seeds
« on: September 21, 2022, 09:23:32 PM »
Yes, I;m interested again.  Walt.

15
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Sweetest tasting cold hardy citrus
« on: September 16, 2022, 11:56:23 AM »
Or if you are willing to grow in a pot and bring iy inside winters, you have some options.

or if you are willing to wait an unknown number of years, there will be some other options for outside, in ground.  We are working on it.  But not today.

16
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Anyone willing to send one seed to me
« on: September 04, 2022, 12:12:57 PM »
I have also received free seeds for my breeding program.  I have given too, but less than I received.  I'll send some when I have them

17
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: fusion power vs citrus trees
« on: September 02, 2022, 09:13:48 AM »
And all of this is due to fusion power in the sun.  With a lot of help from the greenhouse effect. 
When I was growing up, temperatures of 100F made the news reports now and then.  People would talk about it for days.  But this summer we had 100+ (40-45C) day after day, week after week.  I got really tired of it.  And the garden suffered from it.  Other places had it much worse, of course.

18
If the scion dies of cold, replace it with a hardier scion.

19
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Meyer lemon
« on: September 01, 2022, 01:18:30 PM »
I believe Meyer lemon is zygotic, so the fruit will not be exactly like a Meyer.  If the fruit isn't good, you have a nice tree to graft other varieties onto.

20
Or plant the seeds and learn to graft mature scions or buds onto it.  Or learn to micrograft on very young seedlins.  The would be the quickest way to get fruit from a seed you pllanted.  But even then it wouldn't be quite as good as the varieties selected as good root stocks.  That depends some on where you are.

21
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: fusion power vs citrus trees
« on: August 29, 2022, 11:10:37 AM »
Actually, when I started working on cold hardy citrus, I thought they were 30 years away.  Now I'm thinking as little as 5 years away.  Maybe.
Fusion power?  Maybe in my life time.  But I plan to live a long time.

22
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: new thoughts on breeding hardier citrus
« on: August 26, 2022, 02:11:31 PM »
Ponciris does ripen fruit here in zone 6.  OK, what good is a ripe fruit that tastes awful?  But the genes are there for ripening before hard freeze.  I think that there will be those trees that can ripen better tasting fruit before freezing.  Then keep selecting for sweeter less acid fruit.
When I was just starting out.  I slowly ate 4 P. trifoliata fruits, trying to ignore the resin and acid flavors and concentrate on the other flavors.  The orange flavors are there.  We just need to select for more sugar and less acid.  The resinous flavor is said to be lacking in Ponciris+.

23
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: new thoughts on breeding hardier citrus
« on: August 26, 2022, 03:32:31 AM »
I agree that once a good tasting winter hardy citrus is developed, others will soon follow.  And we may not be the first to do it.  There is a man in Tennessee working on winter hardy kumquats.  Given that kumquats are generally more cold hardy than most citrus, and that he is in zone 7 I think, he could be the first.  And there may be others out there working on bringing citrus north.  In fact, I mentioned earlier in this thread that finger lime x Ponciris+  F1 might be liked by some people with a taste for sour bits in their salads or whatever.

And the list of results from your work that came much quicker than I thought possible is precocity.  I bought an Etrog to use as a source of genes for precocity.  Then you report that some of your F2 plants are precocious.
I aim to get the seedless gene from Kishu into my breeding.  That is all the outcrossing that might be needed other than what we already have on hand.

24
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: new thoughts on breeding hardier citrus
« on: August 25, 2022, 03:32:28 PM »
For years, while I was a professional plant breeder, I had a list of ideas I wanted to work on, but my employers didn't see any money in them.  One of them was winter hardy citrus for the zone I was in.  Zone 6.
Now "retired", I'm working on that list of things I wanted to breed.  Especially the hardy citrus.  Especially mandarins.  Yes, I want them for myself.  But also there is the challenge.
When I first posted about it here, Kumin posted about his 20,000 seedlings from C-35 citrange.  Out of 3,000 zygotic seedlings he got 12 that have come through 3 winters now in Pennsylvania.  Same zone as I'm in.  I had not believed it could happen in the F2.  I had expected to have to backcross to P. trifoliata to recover winter hardiness.  So Kumin showed it was much easier than I thought possible. 
And here I learned about Ponciris+ which lacks the resin flavor.  So what I had thought would take at least a couple of generations had been done for me.
Now the paper I linked to above says, if I understand correctly, that sweetness won't be as hard to get as I had thought.
Nothing against breeding and growing dwarf citrus.  That has brought joy to generations of people.  But it is not what I'm about.  Likewise, Kumin, Ilya, Mikkel, and other who I know less about.  I'm sorry to the ones that didn't come to mind just now.

25
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: new thoughts on breeding hardier citrus
« on: August 23, 2022, 09:45:58 PM »
I googled Inheritance of sweetness in citrus.  Got this along with much other information.
https://phys.org/news/2019-02-identification-genes-responsible-sour-citrus.html
It seems that much of the sweetness is due to 2 genes.  nd the differences in amount of sweetness is due differences in gene mutations in the genes that turn on and off those 2 genes.  If I read this right, it will be easier to get sweet hardy citrus than I could have dreamed of.
Did I read this right??

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